Pro Hamas in the west - and their adventures

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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That might be true, but I don't think Palestine weighs on most Americans minds. Barring some major regional blow-up, I don't think it ever will.
You're probably right.
I was responding to the comments earlier that they were "doing it wrong" and wouldn't be remembered positively like the earlier protesters.
I wanted to point out that if these protests do end up linked to some shift in policy and are viewed as having accomplished something, then the memory of them will be edited to be positive - just like happened in the past.

I believe polling picked up that people were growingly concerned about the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights movement even if they had not formulated positive opinions of the protests themselves.
True.
But those things weren't separate.
Opinion changed over time and the protests started long before the population's opinion shifted.
It was all part of many things going on and feeding into each other.

Just look at US opinion towards Israel and Palestine. It isn't where it was 20 years ago.
The protests are part of this back and forth of public opinion.


During the late 1960s, you had politicians promising to end the war soon without losing face. That of course was palatable to many voters, but totally unrealistic. Add to that, most Americans had no understanding of the history of Vietnam. The U.S. govt. and military was also feeding the public a steady diet of misinformation.
Not very different than what is going on now.
There are people promising to end the war, there are people promising it would never happen, and there is a wild amount of misinformation about what is going on there.

The Civil Rights movement saw victories in many court actions and Congressional legislation throughout the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't one big slam dunk, but a long battle with White reactionaries.
Exactly my point.

Then I could add that MLK had to be very careful dealing with the issue of Vietnam. He did not come out against the war until 1967. LBJ publicly fell on the sword for his Administration's failings a year later. And yet, I have older relatives who still think to this day we should have bombed more and invaded Hanoi. Yikes!
Again - very much like now.
MLK, of course, started to lose popularity after the Civil Rights Act was passed, even before he came out against Vietnam.


The main point is I don't think Palestine will ever reach America's collective consciousness like the above-mentioned protests.
I think it is very possible you are right.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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You're probably right.
I was responding to the comments earlier that they were "doing it wrong" and wouldn't be remembered positively like the earlier protesters.
I wanted to point out that if these protests do end up linked to some shift in policy and are viewed as having accomplished something, then the memory of them will be edited to be positive - just like happened in the past.
I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.

True.
But those things weren't separate.
Opinion changed over time and the protests started long before the population's opinion shifted.
It was all part of many things going on and feeding into each other.

Just look at US opinion towards Israel and Palestine. It isn't where it was 20 years ago.
The protests are part of this back and forth of public opinion.
Not very different than what is going on now.
There are people promising to end the war, there are people promising it would never happen, and there is a wild amount of misinformation about what is going on there.
Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US, when domestic public opinion had been led to believe the mass of the VN population supported the Saigon regime and the US intervention. That led to a pendulum effect where Hanoi was then presented as "the real VN patriots".

Everything cartoonishly over-simplified of course.
 
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Klatuu

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I think the protests you mention including the Vietnam War are/were close to home. The causes noted impacted Americans directly. I don't see the protests creating more real empathy for the Palestinians and by virtue the Hamas leadership.

Other than my most progressive friends, most of them who want to see a cease fire just are tired of 75 years of fighting and fruitless peace discussions. This seems a way to put things on the back burner and avoid more carnage and destruction for the time being. I'm not even sure the protesters have any workable solutions in mind for Palestine beyond a cease fire.

As a separate note, I am not a historian but we know the Germans and Japanese were decimated. They came back with much assistance from the West to build great economies and successful democracies. Does anyone really see the Palestinians grabbing that olive branch and also Western and Mideastern assistance to build a thriving country? It would appear the Palestinians are more excited to get a box of missiles from Iran.
Poorly educated
 
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Klatuu

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I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.



Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US, when domestic public opinion had been led to believe the mass of the VN population supported the Saigon regime and the US intervention. That led to a pendulum effect where Hanoi was then presented as "the real VN patriots".

Everything cartoonishly over-simplified of course.
Life in the echo chamber
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.
That the situation is very different domestically (both the general environment of the 60s and the fact there isn't a draft sending these people to actually fight in a war) does mean I am suspicious of anyone drawing 1:1 parallels, I agree.


Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US.
This is a recurring issue.
Lots of people who were "against the endless wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq were actually against "not winning easily".
In 68, Wallace was saying either he would win in 90 days (something short) or pull out.
 
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mandrill

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Apparently Greta joined Hamas supporters.

Got to keep those donations flowing in.

Nice to have a new angle to grift every so often!
 

mandrill

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Klatuu

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Seems a little unfair to take the crowd's anger out on a 20 year old performer, don't you think?
Not in the least. That POS is an ambassador of genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. She doesn’t have an ounce of integrity in her. Play the victim somewhere else…it comes too easily to you.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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neither does a Russian stance automatically discredit someone just because you do not agree with it.
Neither does a pro-Israeli stance automatically discredit someone just because you do not agree with it.

Goose/gander.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts