Reverie

The complexities of Sudan

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

 

Conil

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Apr 12, 2013
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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Millions have been killed in Sudan, a true genocide. But the topic is of no interest here because the Jews didn't do the killing.
 
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SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know,

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Thanks for the concise summary basketcase.

My head hurts and heart aches with all the conflicts going on and the suffering of so many fellow humanswhose only sin is being born in the wrong place.

I try to stay informed of things but how can anyone keep up. 🤷‍♂️

Many years ago a very astute friend of mine simply swore off consuming ’news’. Said his life became much less stressful not thinking about or discussing matters that he had absolutely zero influence on.

Said he immediately became more productive, beneficial to those within his personal sphere of influence … and happier.

I did it for 5-6 years with the same results.

I think it is coming to that for me again. The stupid futility of engaging with the likes of nottyboi and mitch is inexplicable for me…. Even if I just look at it as discussing sports, which has never been my thing. Too tribal. And talking sports seldom makes me feel gross.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Still waiting for the TERB HAMsters to start posting about Ethiopia as well. Crickets....
The reason why these threads die off and don't generate hundreds of pages of discussion is pretty basic.
Nobody says 'they need to kill more of the side I support', or 'all those rebels are cockroaches and should be exterminated'.
Its pretty easy for most people to say 'yes, its shitty and should stop', instead of 'lets send more bombs to get those women and children'.

That's the difference.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The reason why these threads die off and don't generate hundreds of pages of discussion is pretty basic.
...
Because people like you don't care about human suffering unless you can warp it into your hateful agenda.

There should be huge pressure on world powers and our own government to provide much needed aid and to prevent the ethnic cleansing by the RSF/Janjaweed but you hate-mongers are too busy pushing your campaign. You have hundreds of people protesting outside synagogues but not a single one has even hinted to their MP that we should help the Sudanese.

I would suggest that a good part of the reason people protesting Israel based on sharing sympathies with Muslim Palestinians won't speak up about the genocide in Darfur is because it is Arab Muslims committing the genocide.
 
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basketcase

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...

Yup when everyone agrees its terrible, there is no need for further discussion....
The anti-Israel crowd spend a lot of energy trying to change public opinion and influence government decisions. Wouldn't that same effort push governments to actually help a much larger group of people facing starvation?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Israel's actions are evil. The anti-Israel crowd are therefore on the right side and have no other choice than to protest.
So you say. Are the actions of the RSF not evil? You're just making excuses to avoid helping people 25 million people in severe need because it doesn't fit an agenda.

Canada's government (or the US, EU) have shown little interest in helping the famine conditions in Sudan. Why are you afraid of pushing Canada (or India for that matter) to help those million? All you're doing is admitting that helping people is not what you are interested in unless it gives you an excuse to shit on a group you don't like.
 

jsanchez

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Apr 8, 2004
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T.O.
Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Nothing to see here, move along, the hypocrites are not interested, South Africa won't be referring anyone to the ICC.
 
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Frankfooter

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Yet another thread where basketcase tries to argue that Israel is as evil as Sudan, North Korea or Iran and then complain we should be talking about them instead.

Such a winning strategy.
 

basketcase

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basketcase doesn't really care about Sudan. He is trying to falsely say, "Israel is not killing as many people as Sudan! That is more outrageous!". As I mentioned, genocide > civil war.
You don't really care about anyone but happily jump on the anti-Israel bandwagon and simply love making excuses for it. I'm sure you don't care about the hundred million in India living in extreme poverty. Why are you spending time arguing that Palestinians people need more aid while refusing to admit that 25 million Sudanes are starving?

Sad that instead of admitting that the people of Sudan need a huge amount of aid, you simply come up with conspiracy theories.


p.s. Amazing that you insist on commenting on news stories on terb while admitting you don't read the news.
 
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basketcase

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Or, Western governments can simply stop arming Israel. Just like they don't arm Sudan, or Eritrea, or whoever else.
...
Except they are through Saudi Arabia and UAE. There are also US and other NATO special Forces active in Sudan.

But whatever excuse you need to push your Jewish conspiracy theories.
 
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basketcase

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Yet another thread where basketcase tries to argue that Israel is as evil as Sudan, North Korea or Iran and then complain we should be talking about them instead.

Such a winning strategy.
As opposed to your strategy of ignoring every tragedy in the world unless you can blame the Jews?
 
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shack

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Or, Western governments can simply stop arming Israel. Just like they don't arm Sudan, or Eritrea, or whoever else.
Israel, because they were smart enough, made sure to make themselves an important ally to the US unlike those shithole countries. What do they do for the US?
Israel is almost as important to the US as the other way around. To treat Israel the same as those other countries is a completely moronic suggestion.
 

shack

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Its pretty easy for most people to say 'yes, its shitty and should stop', instead of 'lets send more bombs to get those women and children'.
Just like how easy it is for you yell CEASEFIRE for the last 10 weeks while 15,000 Palestinians unnecessarily die instead of calling for a surrender and a release of the hostages.

It proves how easy it is for you to watch them die.
 

shack

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The blame is for zionists, not Jews.
So how many Zionists are we talking about here? How many Israelis are Zionists in Israel? Did Hamas only kill Zionists on Oct.7 or did they kill any non-Zionists Jews whom you love.

You think that all Jews in Israel are Zionists so you hate them all. As long as you refuse tell us what you think the ratio is, my claim stands. You blame and hate all Israeli Jews and you have not refuted it which means you accept it at face value.
 

Frankfooter

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Israel, because they were smart enough, made sure to make themselves an important ally to the US unlike those shithole countries. What do they do for the US?
Israel is almost as important to the US as the other way around. To treat Israel the same as those other countries is a completely moronic suggestion.
Sometimes even AIPAC can't buy enough votes. Bummer Israel lost this election.

 

Frankfooter

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Just like how easy it is for you yell CEASEFIRE for the last 10 weeks while 15,000 Palestinians unnecessarily die instead of calling for a surrender and a release of the hostages.

It proves how easy it is for you to watch them die.
32,000 have died at the hands of zionism so far.
Over 100,000 dead, injured or buried under rubble.

27 children have starved to death inside hospitals in Gaza because of zionists, countless others are dying and not being counted.
Zionism is as evil as nazism now.

The world calls for ceasefire, you try to blame the victim.
(though I do admit this meme is cruel to Gollum)



 
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Frankfooter

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So how many Zionists are we talking about here? How many Israelis are Zionists in Israel? Did Hamas only kill Zionists on Oct.7 or did they kill any non-Zionists Jews whom you love.

You think that all Jews in Israel are Zionists so you hate them all. As long as you refuse tell us what you think the ratio is, my claim stands. You blame and hate all Israeli Jews and you have not refuted it which means you accept it at face value.
I don't know, shack.

Why don't you tell me how many zionists are against apartheid, the occupation and are trying to stop the genocide?
Are there any?

How many zionists have protested the genocide, shack?


 
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