INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE: LATEST

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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"Do not engage in genocidal activities" = "Stop genocide".

What is this Grade 1 English class?!
It 100% does not mean that. If you really believe that, you DO need to go back to grade 1.

Then explain how you fail to grasp they did not tell Israel to STOP certain activities. The only word that means "stop" is "stop". And they didn't use that word. Your interpretation is less than meaningless. Is this what passes for intelligence when you discuss things in your hate group meetings, planning your strategy to shut the Zionists up? It doesn't pass here.

It is either an inability to understand/ignorance or it is willful ignorance=lying.

This post is more idiocy from you.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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None of which changes the fact they DID NOT state that Israel has committed genocide.

All you have are your biased interpretations of what you think is a cryptic message from ICJ. If true, they would have unequivocally said "Israel has committed genocide." No interpretations or analysis would be required.

Keep looking, but it's nowhere to be found in their ruling.
The ICJ ruled on whether South Africa's accusation of genocide and charges of genocide were 'plausible'.
After finding those charges 'plausible' the ICJ ruled that Israel must not commit genocide, save all evidence for trial, arrest those who incite genocide and report back in 30 days.


 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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It 100% does not mean that. If you really believe that, you DO need to go back to grade 1.

Then explain how you fail to grasp they did not tell Israel to STOP certain activities. The only word that means "stop" is "stop". And they didn't use that word. Your interpretation is less than meaningless. Is this what passes for intelligence when you discuss things in your hate group meetings, planning your strategy to shut the Zionists up? It doesn't pass here.

It is either an inability to understand/ignorance or it is willful ignorance=lying.

This post is more idiocy from you.
You are now inciting genocide.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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You would prefer the adult say 'It is plausible you are committing xyz so I therefore order you not to commit xyz, arrest those inciting xyz and report back in a month on your progress or face discipline'.

Sometimes your requests for accuracy come across as a bit pendantic.
Sometimes they are necessary, sometimes they strive to obfuscate.

But I'm not the one obfuscating here.
You are the one who keeps misrepresenting what they actually said.
The ICJ ruling is a rebuke to Israel. It rejected their argument it needs to be thrown out, their argument that self defense covers everything, and it laid out elements of the war as facts it considered.
It said there is going to be more and reminded Israel they are bound by the conventions and that it expects them to show that what it is doing isn't violating those conventions.
It also specifically rejected the language from South Africa that Israel "desist" from genocide - in other words it specifically chose NOT to write that Israel was committing genocide and is being ordered to stop.

Anybody pitching this as it totally exonerated Israel is misrepresenting what was said and anyone who says the ICJ found Israel is doing genocide and ordered it to stop is as well.
 

Frankfooter

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But I'm not the one obfuscating here.
You are the one who keeps misrepresenting what they actually said.
The ICJ ruling is a rebuke to Israel. It rejected their argument it needs to be thrown out, their argument that self defense covers everything, and it laid out elements of the war as facts it considered.
It said there is going to be more and reminded Israel they are bound by the conventions and that it expects them to show that what it is doing isn't violating those conventions.
It also specifically rejected the language from South Africa that Israel "desist" from genocide - in other words it specifically chose NOT to write that Israel was committing genocide and is being ordered to stop.

Anybody pitching this as it totally exonerated Israel is misrepresenting what was said and anyone who says the ICJ found Israel is doing genocide and ordered it to stop is as well.
The ICJ ruled that South Africa's case that Israel is committing genocide was 'plausible' and asked Israel to not commit any genocide.
They were not ruling on guilt or innocence of genocide, just that the case for genocide was 'plausible'.

The court ruled:
'the right of the Palestinians to be protected from acts of genocide and related acts mentioned in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel's compliance with the latter's obligations under the convention. Therefore, a link exists between the rights claimed by South Africa that the court has found to be plausible, and at least some of the provisional measures requested.'

66 - The court says Palestinians have the right to be protected from genocide and the case by South Africa 'plausible'.
74 - The court says there is urgent need for irreparable rights of Palestinians to not suffer genocide.

78 - The court rules that Israel must 'prevent' all acts of genocide. 'The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts.

(its annoying that the NYT posts of the text of the ruling can't be copy and pasted)

Did they use the word 'stop'? No.
Did they say SA's argument that Israel is committing genocide right now is 'plausible'? Yes.
Did they then say Israel must make sure Israel doesn't commit genocide? Yes.

Saying the ICJ told Israel to stop committing genocide is a correct interpretation of the ruling, though the ICJ couldn't rule on the actual crime of genocide. They said the evidence is real, plentiful, the case plausible and therefore ruled no (more) genocide should happen.
That's as much as they could say.

 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
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Israel was asked to stop the latter. Hence Israel was asked to stop genocide. Simple enough.
Although greatly misguided, you are an intelligent guy. So why do you feel the need to lie. It diminishes you.

You know, as well as I that ISRAEL WAS NOT TOLD TO STOP ANY ACTIVITIES. They were warned not to partake of certain activities. That DOES NOT even imply that they have already done so. The court would have unequivocally stated that activity had occurred if they felt that that was the case. That appears nowhere in their statement.

So please, discuss this in an adult and intelligent way. Do not resort to misrepresentation and being disingenuous.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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[QUOTE="Frankfooter, post: 8354311, member: 225852"
Saying the ICJ told Israel to stop committing genocide is a correct interpretation of the ruling,
[/QUOTE]
A court like this does not want their ruling to be open to interpretation. They choose their wording carefully so what they want to say is clearly understood.

Your interpretation is worth less your snot rags.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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If Israel did not partake in any activities, there was no need to tell them not to.
So flawed if Israel DID partake, ICJ would have simply said so instead of waiting for you to clear the air for them. So stupid.

The ICJ could have unequivocally absolved Israel. They did not do that.
So you are saying that they did not absolve Israel. They did not condemn Israel either.

They found merit in South Africa's accusation, and there is documented, video proof of both incitement to genocide and proof of activities that amount to genocide.
Yet so little merit, they imposed no sanctions. All they said was, make sure that you don't start breaking the law.

Remember genocide is not just killing people. Per the official definition it is genocide if one or more of the following actions are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group
Yet the court did not say that Israel contravened that definition.

Are Palestinians a people of a specific national origin?: Yes
Are Palestinians an ethnic, racial and religious group?: Yes.
Is there intent to destroy? - Yes
Yes to Hamas. No to Palestinians.
[/QUOTE]
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
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Although greatly misguided, you are an intelligent guy. So why do you feel the need to lie. It diminishes you.

You know, as well as I that ISRAEL WAS NOT TOLD TO STOP ANY ACTIVITIES. They were warned not to partake of certain activities. That DOES NOT even imply that they have already done so. The court would have unequivocally stated that activity had occurred if they felt that that was the case. That appears nowhere in their statement.

So please, discuss this in an adult and intelligent way. Do not resort to misrepresentation and being disingenuous.
The ICJ said SA's charges that Israel is committing genocide are 'plausible' so for the urgent safety of Palestinians ordered Israel to not commit genocide.

Israel has answered by committing more genocide and will go to trial at the ICJ.
That will end zionism as a movement any politician can back.

 
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Not getting younger

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Well am surprised English is even your first language.

"Do not engage in genocidal activities" = "Stop genocide". Genocide is comprised of certain activities. Israel has been asked to stop those activities, that amount to genocide.

What is this Grade 1 English class?!
Can you quote the ICJ saying stop? If they have I haven’t seen it.
If Israel did not partake in any activities, there was no need to tell them not to. The ICJ could have unequivocally absolved Israel. They did not do that. They found merit in South Africa's accusation, and there is documented, video proof of both incitement to genocide and proof of activities that amount to genocide.

Remember genocide is not just killing people. Per the official definition it is genocide if one or more of the following actions are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group

Are Palestinians a people of a specific national origin?: Yes
Are Palestinians an ethnic, racial and religious group?: Yes.
Is there intent to destroy? - Yes
Proof/Example1: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...ge-an-incitement-violence-us-says-2023-03-01/
Proof/Example2:
  1. Killing members of the group - Yes Israel has killed Palestinians.
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group - Yes, Israel has wounded more than 60K people just in this war alone. They further psychologically torture Palestinians even in the west bank by conducting middle of the night raids on houses for no reason. Further they imprison and torture children including threats of sexual violence.
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part - Yes, by cutting off power, water, food, Israel has inflicted conditions on life that will bring about their physical destruction.
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group - No evidence of this.
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group - No evidence of this.
Remember, for it to be genocide not all conditions have to be met per the official definition. There has to be intent, and one of those 5 points have to be true. This is the case with Israel. Hence guilty of genocide.
^^^^Opinion.
Why can’t you understand the difference between words? Be that stop or cease vs prevent or other
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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The ICJ ruled that South Africa's case that Israel is committing genocide was 'plausible' and asked Israel to not commit any genocide.
They were not ruling on guilt or innocence of genocide, just that the case for genocide was 'plausible'.
Yes.
We agree.
Why are you able to acknowledge this in a post to me and then turn around and say "They were ordered to stop committing genocide" and misrepresent the ruling a moment later?

78 - The court rules that Israel must 'prevent' all acts of genocide. 'The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts.
Yup.
"Prevent".

Did they use the word 'stop'? No.
Glad we are in agreement.
So you will stop saying they said to stop then?

Saying the ICJ told Israel to stop committing genocide is a correct interpretation of the ruling,
I guess not.
 
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Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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Yes.
We agree.
Why are you able to acknowledge this in a post to me and then turn around and say "They were ordered to stop committing genocide" and misrepresent the ruling a moment later?



Yup.
"Prevent".



Glad we are in agreement.
So you will stop saying they said to stop then?



I guess not.
Prevention is the act of stopping something from happening, either the first time or again. The ICJ has stated that a plausible case was made that genocide has occurred. The interim or provisional order from the ICJ forces Israel to report on its compliance with the Geneva Convention and orders it to change some of its actions that are currently taking place. Hence the act of prevention stops Israeli violations of the Geneva Convention from occurring again.
 
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toguy5252

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Prevention is the act of stopping something from happening, either the first time or again. The ICJ has stated that a plausible case was made that genocide has occurred. The interim or provisional order from the ICJ forces Israel to report on its compliance with the Geneva Convention and orders it to change some of its actions that are currently taking place. Hence the act of prevention stops Israeli violations of the Geneva Convention from occurring again.
Obviously. That is why you try and prevent a car accident after it has happened. You are a funny clown.
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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If Israel did not partake in any activities, there was no need to tell them not to. The ICJ could have unequivocally absolved Israel. They did not do that. They found merit in South Africa's accusation, and there is documented, video proof of both incitement to genocide and proof of activities that amount to genocide.

Remember genocide is not just killing people. Per the official definition it is genocide if one or more of the following actions are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group

Are Palestinians a people of a specific national origin?: Yes
Are Palestinians an ethnic, racial and religious group?: Yes.
Is there intent to destroy? - Yes
Proof/Example1: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...ge-an-incitement-violence-us-says-2023-03-01/
Proof/Example2:
  1. Killing members of the group - Yes Israel has killed Palestinians.
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group - Yes, Israel has wounded more than 60K people just in this war alone. They further psychologically torture Palestinians even in the west bank by conducting middle of the night raids on houses for no reason. Further they imprison and torture children including threats of sexual violence.
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part - Yes, by cutting off power, water, food, Israel has inflicted conditions on life that will bring about their physical destruction.
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group - No evidence of this.
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group - No evidence of this.
Remember, for it to be genocide not all conditions have to be met per the official definition. There has to be intent, and one of those 5 points have to be true. This is the case with Israel. Hence guilty of genocide.
No. Nobody told them "not to" The only reason ICJ got involved.is because SA filed a case. There is no meritocracy on filing a case. ICJ will accept any case and look into it and collect all the evidence by the filer and will arrive on the conclusion...what was the conclusion? "Make sure no genocide is going to happen during your operation Israel"...
 

richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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Prevention is the act of stopping something from happening, either the first time or again. The ICJ has stated that a plausible case was made that genocide has occurred. The interim or provisional order from the ICJ forces Israel to report on its compliance with the Geneva Convention and orders it to change some of its actions that are currently taking place. Hence the act of prevention stops Israeli violations of the Geneva Convention from occurring again.
Clown
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
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Frankfooter

dangling member
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Yes.
We agree.
Why are you able to acknowledge this in a post to me and then turn around and say "They were ordered to stop committing genocide" and misrepresent the ruling a moment later?



Yup.
"Prevent".



Glad we are in agreement.
So you will stop saying they said to stop then?



I guess not.
The ICJ told Israel to prevent 'killing members of the group'.
Is that not telling them to ceasefire and stop?

86. For these reasons,
The COURT,

....
The state of Israel shall....take all measures within its power to prevent...,in particular:

(a) killing members of the group.


Israel must ceasefire and stop killing Palestinians to abide by the ICJ ruling.
There is no other reasonable interpretation of that demand.
 
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