Anti-Semitism On Campus

mandrill

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No, that's wrong.

On Oct 4 Israel shot Palestinian protesters in Gaza, targeting them in the ankles.
On Oct 4 Israel allowed and aided settlers storming the Al Aqsa.
Throughout 2023 there were new 'settlements' announced and taken from Palestinian land.
Jan-Oct there were 233 settler terrorist attacks and 200 Palestinians were killed.

Those were the reasons Hamas gave for their attack on Oct 7 and those are the same reasons that Palestinians think Hamas used to justify the attack.

You forget that Hamas and Gaza were living under a 17 year blockade and have suffered 5 attacks on them, the latest in 2021 happened after the IDF aided settlers storming the Al Aqsa.

Which is why if you want peace you need to end the occupation and apartheid.
You can't kill or genocide your way to peace.
Frankie, your other problem is this.

If your argument is that 7 October is justified because of aggression by Jewish extremists at Al-Aqsa Mosque in early fall, you have to deal with the apparent fact that the 7 October mass raid was clearly being planned for several months. So raid planning pre dated the tensions along the fence and at Al-Aqsa.
 

richaceg

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Its already 2.5x the number killed in the Bosnian genocide.
Its not about the numbers, its about intent and execution and we have seen both of those.
As mandrill said hamas reignited this conflict and are still firing rockets...it's war not genocide. Hamas are still killing Israelis....so far only idf soldiers and Palestinians are getting killed here...and only Palestinian civilians are getting caught....no hamas are getting killed and captures...if we base it all on your stupid posts....its like hamas is none existent in this conflict...they don't commit murder and rape, they aren't getting killed or captured....despite intensive pursuit by IDF...
 
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Frankfooter

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So here's The Guardian article on 4 October. Let's quote it.

If demonstrators are going to rush the fence, then security forces are going to shoot them. It's the same as with Ashley Babbit in the Capitol riot.

The soldiers aimed low to avoid lethal injury. Going on a mass murder / rape / kidnapping spree where over 1,000 Israelis are killed is not an appropriate reaction and massive Israeli retaliation is inevitable.
Thank you for taking the time to read the article, that's a start.

But you're basically arguing that Gaza is really a concentration camp where the guards are justified in shooting the civilians in the ankles and crippling them if they get too close to the prison walls. (I'll ignore your obviously racist hate tirade about rape and genocide for now)

This article also confirms everything I've been saying, that Palestinians and Hamas were reacting to the ongoing blockade, Al Aqsa attacks, settler attacks and attacks on their rights. Your response is that Israel is justified in shooting them in the ankles for protesting or resisting the internationally recognized illegal occupation.

And lets look at two of the paragraphs you highlighted.
In a statement, the IDF said: “Over the past few weeks, the Hamas terror organisation has organised violent riots along the border fence, for purposes of harming Israeli security forces … It should be noted that the IDF resorts to live fire only after exhausting all available options, and only as necessary to handle imminent threat.”

The latest violence echoes the “Great March of Return” protests that began in 2018 and lasted nearly two years, in which 227 Palestinians were killed during weekly demonstrations at the separation fences. The protests were triggered by Donald Trump’s decision to recognise the disputed city of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.


Do you know the history of the Great March of Return?
For almost an entire year Palestinians, not Hamas, marched to the prison walls for basic human rights and the right to return to their homes in occupied Palestine outside of Gaza. Every Friday for almost a year the IDF used snipers behind the prison walls to shoot those civilians, with an implemented program of using 'kneecapping' and 'dumdums' or exploding bullets for maximum damage.

For context, there have been no peace talks in a decade and the blockade on Gaza is now in its 17th year.

This is the history where more Palestinians in Gaza walked to the borders and were shot in the ankle on Oct 4, 2023.

 

Frankfooter

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Frankie, your other problem is this.

If your argument is that 7 October is justified because of aggression by Jewish extremists at Al-Aqsa Mosque in early fall, you have to deal with the apparent fact that the 7 October mass raid was clearly being planned for several months. So raid planning pre dated the tensions along the fence and at Al-Aqsa.
Prior to Oct there were 233 settler terrorist attacks in the West Bank and 200 Palestinian deaths.
There was the storming of multiple villages in Feb/Mar, reported as 'pogroms' with the IDF aiding.
There were no peace talks for a decade.

If you were Hamas you'd be preparing a defence or attack on the people who were illegally occupying your land and forcing you to live in a giant concentration camp. You would be doing prep work for defence constantly in the face of ongoing attacks, settlements and total lack of peace talks.

Admit it.
 

mandrill

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Prior to Oct there were 233 settler terrorist attacks in the West Bank and 200 Palestinian deaths.
There was the storming of multiple villages in Feb/Mar, reported as 'pogroms' with the IDF aiding.
There were no peace talks for a decade.

If you were Hamas you'd be preparing a defence or attack on the people who were illegally occupying your land and forcing you to live in a giant concentration camp. You would be doing prep work for defence constantly in the face of ongoing attacks, settlements and total lack of peace talks.

Admit it.
Except it was an expedition to mass rape 12 year old girls and kill babies in front of their parents and kidnap grandmothers.

Gaza itself hasn't been invaded for 20 years.
 

Frankfooter

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Except it was an expedition to mass rape 12 year old girls and kill babies in front of their parents and kidnap grandmothers.

Gaza itself hasn't been invaded for 20 years.
Ok, now you're just totally fucked in the head.
You think it was an 'expedition to mass rape 12 year old girls'?
That's just totally fucked.

No children were raped and the only accusations of such

This is so much worse than your claim about 'captured' Hamas and the staged video.
 

basketcase

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Ok, now you're just totally fucked in the head.
You think it was an 'expedition to mass rape 12 year old girls'?
That's just totally fucked.
...
Yes it is fucked. The primary goal was to cause as much harm as possible to Jews with civilians being the easiest targets with the goal of creating an continual state of war. At least that's what Hamas leadership told the Times.

Also fucked up is your obsessive attempt to justify anti-Semitism. I can't recall a single thread about on antisemitism that you haven't desperately turned into a thread about Israel, thinking that it somehow makes your ethnic hatred of and conspiracy theories about Jews acceptable.


Pretty fucked that you're more concerned about Hamas fighters being searched than about Hamas and colleagues using rape and sexual violence as a weapon.
 

Frankfooter

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Yes it is fucked. The primary goal was to cause as much harm as possible to Jews with civilians being the easiest targets with the goal of creating an continual state of war. At least that's what Hamas leadership told the Times.
No, the CBC posted an interview on Oct 7 or so where Hamas said they were attacking because of settlers storming the Al Aqsa, ongoing land theft and West Bank terrorism.

Right now Israel's primary goal appears to kill as many as they can before Biden grows some balls and stops them.
 

basketcase

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No, the CBC posted...
Wow. Are you really trying to refute the Times in depth interview directly with Hamas leadership because CBC posted something else in their lengthy list of excuses for their atrocities?



But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

...

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

...


“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” said Mr. al-Hayya, the politburo member. “Hamas, the Qassam and the resistance woke the world up from its deep sleep and showed that this issue must remain on the table.”

“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he added. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”
 

basketcase

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And again, why are you so desperate to avoid talking about antisemitism on campus? You know, the topic of the thread.
 

Darts

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Campuses in 2023 are full of wokies and lefties. What is ironical is that many/most Jews are wokies/lefties.
 

Frankfooter

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Wow. Are you really trying to refute the Times in depth interview directly with Hamas leadership because CBC posted something else in their lengthy list of excuses for their atrocities?



But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

...

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

...


“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” said Mr. al-Hayya, the politburo member. “Hamas, the Qassam and the resistance woke the world up from its deep sleep and showed that this issue must remain on the table.”


“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he added. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”
Its paywalled, so off topic.
Its also contrary to what Palestinians believe is the reason and what Hamas said the day after, as reported by CBC.
 

Frankfooter

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And again, why are you so desperate to avoid talking about antisemitism on campus? You know, the topic of the thread.
There is way more anti Palestinian racism on campus right now than antisemitism, but that's the way you like it.
Profs, lecturers and students getting cancelled for discussing Palestinian rights.

The 'antisemitism' tends to be zionists offended that Palestinians talk about human rights and freedom.
The way you use the accusation to try to stop the discussion on zionism.
 

Conil

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Apr 12, 2013
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But so do news sites, but its good he brought it up.

CNN’s Zakaria: Universities Have Been Pushing Partisan Political Agendas, Not Academic Merit

CNN host Fareed Zakaria said Sunday on his show “Fareed Zakaria GPS” that American universities were “pushing political agendas” over academic excellence.

Zakaria said, “Three university presidents came under fire this week for their vague and indecisive answers when asked whether calling for the genocide of Jews would violate their institution’s codes of conduct. But to understand their performance, we have to understand the broad shift that has taken place at elite universities, which have gone from being centers of excellence to institutions pushing political agendas. People sense the transformation.”

He continued, “American universities have been neglecting a core focus on excellence in order to pursue a variety of agendas, many of them clustered around diversity and inclusion. It started with the best of intentions. Colleges wanted to make sure young people of all backgrounds had access to higher education and felt comfortable on campus. But those good intentions have morphed into a dogmatic ideology and turn these universities into places where the pervasive goals of political and social engineering, not academic merit. As the evidence produced for the recent Supreme Court case on affirmative action showed, universities have systematically downplayed merit based criteria for admissions in favor of racial quotas. Some universities’ response to this ruling seems to be that they will go further down this path, eliminating the requirement for any standardized tests like the SAT. That move would allow them to then take students with little reference to objective criteria. Of course, those who would suffer most would be bright students from poor backgrounds who normally use tests like PSAT to demonstrate their qualifications. In the humanities hiring for new academic positions now appears to center on the race and gender of the applicant, as well as the subject matter, which needs to be about marginalized groups. A white man studying the American presidency does not have a prayer of getting tenure at a major history department.”

Zakaria said, “The most obvious lack of diversity at universities, political diversity, which clearly affects their ability to analyze many issues, is never addressed assuring that these goals are not centrally achieving to sustaining or building excellence. Out of this culture of diversity has grown the collection of ideas and practices that we have now all heard of: safe spaces, trigger warnings, microaggressions.”

He added, “The Jewish groups would wonder why do safe spaces, microaggressions and hate speech not apply to us? If universities can take positions against free speech to make some groups feel safe, why not us? Having coddled so many student groups for so long, university administrators found themselves squirming, unable to explain why certain groups — Jews, Asians don’t seem to count in these conversations. Having gone so far down the ideological path, these universities and these presidents could not make the case clearly that at the center of a university is the free expression of ideas and that while harassment and intimidation would not be tolerated, offensive speech would and should be protected.

Zakaria concluded, “America’s top colleges are no longer seen as bastions of excellence but partisan outfits, which means they will keep getting buffeted by these political storms as they emerge. They should abandon this long misadventure into politics, retrain their gaze on their core strengths, and rebuild their reputations as centers of research and learning.”

 

basketcase

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There is way more anti Palestinian racism on campus right now ...
I know you consider condemning Hamas' attack and supporting Israel existing is hate speech but get real. And I'm sure that you think the media refusing to report on your claims are because you believe Jews control the media

And if you actually cared about human rights and were against racism, you wouldn't be obsessively justifying one kind of racism simply because other racism also exists.

Again, why are you so desperate to avoid talking about antisemitism on campus? You know, the topic of the thread.
 

Frankfooter

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I know you consider condemning Hamas' attack and supporting Israel existing is hate speech but get real. And I'm sure that you think the media refusing to report on your claims are because you believe Jews control the media

And if you actually cared about human rights and were against racism, you wouldn't be obsessively justifying one kind of racism simply because other racism also exists.

Again, why are you so desperate to avoid talking about antisemitism on campus? You know, the topic of the thread.
Lets talk about why zionists are claiming that they are frightened for their safety when they see someone wear a keffiyeh.
Lets talk about why they think 'free Palestine' is an antisemitic call for genocide.

Do you think those are antisemitic?
 

basketcase

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Its paywalled, so off topic.
Its also contrary to what Palestinians believe is the reason and what Hamas said the day after, as reported by CBC.
That's a new excuse for you to ignore what Palestinians says.

But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

...

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

...


“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” said Mr. al-Hayya, the politburo member. “Hamas, the Qassam and the resistance woke the world up from its deep sleep and showed that this issue must remain on the table.”

“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he added. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”
 

Frankfooter

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That's a new excuse for you to ignore what Palestinians says.

But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

...

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

...


“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” said Mr. al-Hayya, the politburo member. “Hamas, the Qassam and the resistance woke the world up from its deep sleep and showed that this issue must remain on the table.”

“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he added. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”
Well, basketcase, it is an illegal occupation and the government of Israel has made multiple statements saying they will never settle for the two state solution. You've attacked BDS, the ICC, the UN and any other peaceful avenue.

So, as an occupied people they are legally within their rights to violently resist the occupation.

Maybe Israel should have held peace talks in the last decade instead of cementing apartheid, the blockade and building more settlements.

As it is, Israel has declared the two state solution dead so the one state apartheid system is now here.
Would you prefer more resistance from Hamas, a campaign to end apartheid or do you really think apartheid is your dream state?
Personally, I'm backing ceasefire then an international campaign of sanctions and boycotts through BDS as the best non-violent way to end the occupation and bring peace to Israel/Palestine.

Meanwhile, Jews have been busy.

Gaza ceasefire protests held in eight major US cities

Jewish protesters demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza have held demonstrations in eight US cities, blocking rush hour traffic on busy streets and bridges in Boston, Philadelphia and Washington, DC, according to reports.



US presses Israel on civilian deaths, move to ‘lower intensity’ war in Gaza

Israel troops, tanks raid Gaza hospital, ‘ill treatment’ of patients, staff, displaced people: UN
 
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