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Israel at war

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basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Kautilya said:
You know what else they detest? Being oppressed, and being violently dispossessed.
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So you think they should be opressed in a different way? Nice.

Okay fine, a 2 state solution then. Oops that is not possible either!
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Yes, that's not possible until Palestinian leadership accept the idea that the Jews there aren't going anywhere because they have nowhere else to be.



Then what is the solution?
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How about what I've been saying forever; push BOTH sides into negotiating something that they can live with. Think about the Indian context. You've condemned the British presence and their decision to Partition India so why do you so desperately want to force your outside, elitist intentions on the people in Israel/Palestine?



No I don't ignore them. But the atrocities committed on the Arab side, are because of Israel's policies. ...
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Holy shit you are desperate and completely avoiding history. It also shows a massive elitism refusing to believe Arab leaders and Palestinians can't be held accountable for their choices. And once more, the Arab and Palestinian leadership rejected the possibility of a Palestinian state repeatedly because they hated the idea of having Jewish neighbours more than they wanted their own state (to be more accurate, Arab and Palestinian leadership saw rejection as a great way to expand their own power base as can be seen with Jordan's invasion and annexation of the West bank)

BTW. The first major outbreak of violence was in 1919 when Arab leaders incited mobs to attack the long standing Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron, communities that were established many centuries before any European Jews considered the concept of zionism. Was that because of Israeli policies?
 
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richaceg

richaceg

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basketcase said:
BTW. The first major outbreak of violence was in 1919 when Arab leaders incited mobs to attack the long standing Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron, communities that were established many centuries before any European Jews considered the concept of zionism. Was that because of Israeli policies?
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No...Kautliya, franky and their ilks only count the violence of 1948 and not about the attack by the arabs...just about after that when Israel won the war....that to them is where the violence started....
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Kautilya said:
In what way will they be oppressed in a one state solution? With full citizenship? This statement of yours doesnt make sense.



Well, they did earlier, and Israel did not do anything to create a 2 state solution. So Israel has not behaved in good faith either. Heck didn't the Oslo Accords result in Israel's PM getting assassinated?



What elitism am I imposing? I am saying either, create a 2 state solution, or a 1 state solution. Like those are the 2 options! Both the Palestinians and the Israelis exist. So they can exist together in peace than apart, with all this violence. Now given Israel has taken so much of land already, I do not see a 2 state solution possible. I also see Israel, as the only viable state, as they have the structural, economic and military institutions. So in my opinion it is easier to give the Palestinians citizenship.



Well if we are going to talk about before 1948, then I disagree with UK's actions to even issue the Balfour declaration. The formation of Israel was done through colonial politics - those things are bound to cause sectarian violence. It isn't true that this sectarian violence had a precise starting point in 1919 either, but rather a culmination of events that involved Zionist movements and militias, colonial politics, Arab Nationalism, WW 1 etc.,

Now it is also true that the Arab and Palestinian leadership has been unreasonable, and that it led to the 1948 war, but 1967 was solely Israel's aggression. They created a narrative of self-defence and pre-emptive attacks, but the goal was to always steal Gaza and the West Bank. I think 1967 was the turning point in this conflict, that led to settlements, apartheid and the current oppression we see. So this is why I see it as Israel's fault regardless of Palestinian leadership's unreasonableness.
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You continue to assume that peace is wanted. Now what is the solution if both sides don't want it, refuse to compromise, and continue to want to make war?
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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shack said:
No mention of Oct. 7.

You have never condemned it.

What war crimes should Hamas be investigated for?

Talk about cowardly? That's a joke.
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You're moving the goal posts again.
Now I have to use 'Oct 7' or it doesn't count.

Meanwhile your genocide is done.
The truce will start, Israeli politicians will talk about killing for another 2 months but US support is done.
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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shack said:
Just like Oct. 7 was not a terror attack.
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Oct 7 was one more round of the continuing, 75 year, rounds of violence.

As usual, both sides committed acts of terrorism and both sides should be investigated for targeting civilians, which you call 'terrorism', but only when Palestinians do it.

You want to apply the label 'terrorist' to all Palestinians to justify killing them yet refuse to admit settler attacks fit your definition of 'terrorism' as do Israeli bombs on hospitals, schools, mosques and residential buildings. To do so means you'd admit you back terrorism and you are just another racist supporter of tribal violence in the form of a colonial settler movement.

You either want to kill all Palestinians or 'drive them into the sea'. You offer nothing but more violence.

Its very sad watching the people who's motto is 'never again' becoming the new nazis.
 
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Frankfooter

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basketcase said:
I love how these guys keep claiming to support Palestinian rights while demanding that Palestinians be forced into a One State peace they detest.

View attachment 277314
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That same poll says about the same number are against the two state solution as well, that its no longer viable and that Oslo made the situation worse.
Israeli policy and the PA failure has left Palestinians with only violent resistance as their only avenue to fight the illegal occupation of their indigenous homes. Congrats.

Right now Palestinians don't trust Israelis to create a one state solution, accept the two state solution is dead and now are mixed between support for international support and violent resistance.

Support for the two-state solution rises from 28% to 32%
• 76% believe the prospects for the creation of an independent Palestinian state alongside the state of Israel during the next five years is slim or nonexistent
• 58% support resoled to armed confrontations and intifada in order to break the current deadlock
• Support for armed struggle is much higher than support for negotiations as the most effective means of ending the Israeli occupation, 53% and 20% respectively
• To confront settlers’ terrorism, the largest percentage (45%) support the formation of armed groups in the areas targeted by settlers

You have no solutions, you claim to back the two state solution yet support settlers and settler terrorism by posting here endlessly about Hamas while ignoring the average 3 daily settler terrorist attacks on Palestinians throughout 2023 before Oct.

The world is already moving towards BDS and sanctioning Israel. This war will kill Biden's reelection and legacy. Trudeau has lost Canadians. This will be the end of any global support of zionism other than the dying generation of Sheldon Adelsons funding right wing violence and racial fascism.


www.middleeasteye.net

US: More Democrat voters support BDS than oppose it, new polls show

Polls find that majority of Americans are opposed to laws criminalising the boycott of Israel
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net

mondoweiss.net

44% of Democrats say Israel apartheid state

A new poll by the University of Maryland shows that 44% of Democrats believe Israel is a “state with segregation similar to apartheid,” and 41% of Democrats support the BDS movement.
mondoweiss.net mondoweiss.net
 
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