Reverie

Israel at war

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drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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Kautilya said:
No they weren't. They lived well. After Israel's formation some of them may have faced backlash.



Of course it was stolen. Israel will tell you they took the land after they conquered it etc., However, it is true that they forcefully evict Palestinians with IDF support and protection, illegally build settlements and so on.



I think several others. I think of the Japanse Kamikaze bombers, suicide submarines and the like. I think of the LTTE who killed the Indian PM, Rajiv Gandhi with a suicide bomb. I also think of Muslim suicide bombings. So? Terrorists exist everywhere. Currently the breeding ground for the majority terrorism is the Islamic world, because of western interefernce and military action. You bomb a guy's family and kill them, he has nothing to lose. He is very easy to recruit to a terrorist group. Which is why military action against terrorism always backfires and creates MORE terrorism.



Yes, October 7 wasn't justified.

What they are however telling you, that you are not listening to, is that this October 7 attack is a symptom of a larger issue, that has existed for 50+ years. That is undeniable. The action by Hamas isn't justified, but it is what it has come to given all these years of oppression.

So while rooting out Hamas (with methods other than carpet bombings) is necessary, a more focused and sincere attempt at a diplomatic solution to find long term peace is equally necessary.



Yes Hamas oppresses the Palestinians. So do the Israelis.

Okay, you say this about Gaza. What about the West Bank? Why are the Palestinians there oppressed by Israel? There is no Hamas there. So why does this happen even there?

The fundamental characteristic of the Israeli state is that it is a racist, colonial power, that wants to rid the lands of the Palestinians. That is at the heart of their motivations.



Okay, you are a Xenophobe and an Islamophobe. Happy?
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You basically justified terrorism.

Everyone can pick their own version of history - you chose to believe the one claiming oppression for 75 years. I do not.

The only point that makes sense is that even if they wipe out hamas, the Jihadist ideology will not be eliminated. The seeds are there. Unfortunately, this is likely to be an eternal conflict. 90% of Muslims on my own social media accounts have the same vantage point you do. We’ll be seeing a new generation if Jihadists soon enough. And no one will be better for it.
 
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toguy5252

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Kautilya said:
The fact that you say the state has removed itself from marriage altogether, is precisely what I told you not to tell me because that is not a rebuttal. Any country that calls itself democratic, and liberal, like Israel often times does, will have legal avenues for inter religious marriage.

The state has removed itself, because they do not want Jews marrying non-Jews. They intend to keep the Jewish nature of Israel intact. Israel does not even have a constitution. Nor a requirement of equality.

It is kept that way precisely to ensure that the demographics of the state can be manipulated to keep it Jewish majority.

So the ones who are racist are the Israelis. Not the ones calling them out for their racism. This is why I call Israel, cliquey and racist, and it explains their apartheid policies as well (even if some of them are for security reasons).
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So to you the fact that the government has stayed out of marriage and allowed Muslims to make their own rules and observe according to their own fath is a bad thing for Muslims.

the lengths you will go to in order to justify your hatred if Israel is really quite astounding.
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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drewstar said:
You basically justified terrorism.

Everyone can pick their own version of history - you chose to believe the one claiming oppression for 75 years. I do not.

The only point that makes sense is that even if they wipe out hamas, the Jihadist ideology will not be eliminated. The seeds are there. Unfortunately, this is likely to be an eternal conflict. 90% of Muslims on my own social media accounts have the same vantage point you do. We’ll be seeing a new generation if Jihadists soon enough. And no one will be better for it.
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This kind of Islamaphobia had died down, or at least not been made so public.
Here we are again.

If you want to end the war and the hate end apartheid.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721860793359101953
 
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Frankfooter

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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
Nobody likes Islamic extremism. The majority of Muslims don't either. Nobody likes Zionism either. Or Evangelical Christianity. No one like religious fundamentalism.



There is no version of history regarding Israel and Palestine, that does not involve oppression of the Palestinians.

Also, terrorism is not justified. But you have to remember they are terrorists to US. We call them terrorists. They call them freedom fighters. The reason these "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" exist, is because of certain things like western military action, oppression, and so on. That has to be acknowledged. Terrorists are not a defined faction that you can defeat on the battlefield. Every lost man can be replaced and replacement is easy when you give them a reason to use.

Jihadists do not exist in a vacuum. And if you agree that we will see a new generation of Jihadists, then why enable them? Why enable them via the same methods that helped create the other Jihadists in the first place?



Oh what a noble government staying out of people's faith! lol. Stop.
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You call it oppression, I call it conflict...yeah...both sides h ad been in conflict for ages...
 
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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
Why are you stuck on that? Who is denying that Hamas started the current war?

The disagreement is not about who started the war. It is about how Israel is going about it. Which is to commit war crimes.



Not sure how much those RPG's would be able to penetrate Tank armour though.
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How is Israel going about it? They asked for release of hostages and what do they get? more rockets....If protesters are crying "ceasefire"...they know who they should direct it to....
 
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drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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Kautilya said:
Nobody likes Islamic extremism. The majority of Muslims don't either. Nobody likes Zionism either. Or Evangelical Christianity. No one like religious fundamentalism.



There is no version of history regarding Israel and Palestine, that does not involve oppression of the Palestinians.

Also, terrorism is not justified. But you have to remember they are terrorists to US. We call them terrorists. They call them freedom fighters. The reason these "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" exist, is because of certain things like western military action, oppression, and so on. That has to be acknowledged. Terrorists are not a defined faction that you can defeat on the battlefield. Every lost man can be replaced and replacement is easy when you give them a reason to use.

Jihadists do not exist in a vacuum. And if you agree that we will see a new generation of Jihadists, then why enable them? Why enable them via the same methods that helped create the other Jihadists in the first place?



Oh what a noble government staying out of people's faith! lol. Stop.
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There is no perfect solution. In a conflict where neither side can find common ground that the majority agree with, what will happen is Palestine will be wiped out but Jihadists will continue to exist.

You believe the initial fault is with Israel. I and many others do not. The ceasefire ended on Oct 7. Hamas opened the gates of hell and theres no turning back.
 
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shack

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Kautilya said:
1. Hamas created what problem? The current Israeli response? Yes. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict? No.
2. And so WHAT if Hamas created the problem of the current response by Israel? Israel has a choice not to carpet bomb. So the decision to carpet bomb, is solely theirs.
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Your arguments are beginning to sound almost as ridiculous as frank's. If someone creates a problem, then the consequences of what they created is unequivocally their responsibility.

And the decision to put Gazans in harms way is solely Hamas'.
 
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shack

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Kautilya said:
I forgot to mention, the 4th reason, that you could be a supporter of Israel, because it is the socially and politically acceptable/easier thing to do.
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Clearly not.

I thought that's it's been accepted than the U.N. and 80% of the countries of the world do not support Israel. The furthest thing from socially and politically. It is going against the grain of public opinion acceptable.

On the other hand it is easily acceptable morally.
 
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