Israel at war

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Frankfooter

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shack said:
That does not end the war. It extends it by allowing Hamas to rearm and regroup. More Gazans die. Why are you supporting that?
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Ending apartheid and the occupation are the only things that can end the cycle of violence.
All you are doing is creating a generation of children in Gaza who will hate zionists forever.
Nobody can ever forgive Israel for genocide now.


BDS has been going on for years and years and has been ineffective. How many more years would it take to have any effect, all the while the war continues and more Gazans die. You are supporting that.
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It took 20 years for boycotts and sanctions to end apartheid in South Africa.
After the genocide it won't take long.



See above. All your supposed solutions result in more Gazan casualties and this is what you support. There is no apartheid. Israel treats its' citizens equally. Gazans are not citizens of Israel.
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All Palestinians must become full citizens with equal rights. Palestine has been wiped off the map so all Palestinians must be accepted as citizens of Israel. Amnesty, HRW, B'tselem and the UN say you are full of shit, Israel is apartheid.

I suggest that Hamas surrenders and releases all hostages. The war ends immediately. No hostages are harmed and Gazan death and suffering ends immediately. Why don't you support the smart and humane thing to do?
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I suggest that Israel needs to ceasefire and end the genocide, occupation and apartheid. The occupation is the root source of all this violence. There is no place for Jewish supremacy in the form of settler colonial values in the 21st century. Zionism is racism.


You haven't been following. Their goals are very different this time. Previously the goal for Israel was only to dish out punishment as a general tit for tat because of attacks against them.
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Yes, Israel's goal is genocide and ethnic cleansing this time. Sadly that is no different than 2008, 2011, 2014, 2018, 2021. The only difference this time is how far the US is allowing Israel to take it. End apartheid instead and end the cycle of violence.

This time the goal is to wipe out Hamas and their leadership, their tunnels, their infrastructure, their war rooms etc. They have not attempted such a thorough dismantling of of Hamas previously. So to say they are trying the same thing is blatantly false.
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2008. Israel invaded and tried the exact same thing.

Hahahahahaha. You are a comedian. Repeating failure has been Hamas' calling card.
They attack and attack and attack and then lose and lose and lose some more. They have not won a single war and in fact Gaza ends out in a worse position each time.
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Israel has been trying this same, terrorist shite for 75 years now. Palestinians are still there and still the majority. 73% of Americans say Israel should be a democracy, not a Jewish state.
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Biden is handing the election to trump by supporting Israel. Instead you will get a white supremacist fascist as Israel's biggest supporter. Wait, that's exactly what you want.

No he HAS NOT. He supports Israel's position and has only asked for some humanitarian pauses, which Israel has provided.
Agreed.
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While more Gazans die.
Of which there is none. Treating non-citizens differently than citizens is NOT apartheid.
If they are citizens of Israel, they already have it. If they aren't then they'll have to agree to a treaty and form an actual country and allow their citizens to vote.

Actually Gazans DID have a vote, but unfortunately they voted for Hamas but Hamas took it away and now there have been no elections for 16 years.

Do you support Hamas allowing free and democratic elections in Gaza?
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Frankfooter

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lomotil said:
For many reasons, Israel has decided it is better to be safe than “popular “ and towards that end Israel is succeeding in removing Hamas as a terrorist organize that attacks Israel. Soon no more rockets will enter Israel from Gaza.
Going forward, Israel will exercise options to make it impossible for Gaza to be a base for terrorist acts against Israel such as tunnels under Gaza and terrorist camps set up under hospitals.
Israel seeks the genocide of terrorism against them.
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If that were the case Israel wouldn't have blocked all food, water and power to 2.3 million civilians.
That is targeting civilians and genocide.

 
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Klatuu

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lomotil said:
For many reasons, Israel has decided it is better to be safe than “popular “ and towards that end Israel is succeeding in removing Hamas as a terrorist organize that attacks Israel. Soon no more rockets will enter Israel from Gaza.
Going forward, Israel will exercise options to make it impossible for Gaza to be a base for terrorist acts against Israel such as tunnels under Gaza and terrorist camps set up under hospitals.
Israel seeks the genocide of terrorism against them.
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Delusional
 
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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
We all condemn Hamas and their war crimes. We also condemn their terrorism. But terrorism has reasons and does not occur in isolation and therefore cannot be viewed in isolation, when you look to eradicate it.

Hamas was born because of Israeli occupation, oppression and war crimes. I mean, there was no Hamas in 1948! People join Hamas due to anger towards Israel. What do you think the Palestinians are feeling right now?
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No, Hamas was born like Nazi...you keep with your talking points about apartheid and occupation...the real objective is to get rid of the world of Jews....


On the destruction of Israel:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)



The exclusive Moslem nature of the area:

"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)

"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)



The call to jihad:

"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)

"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)



Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:

"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)



Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

"Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32)



Anti-Semitic incitement:

The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
 
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Frankfooter

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richaceg said:
No, Hamas was born like Nazi...you keep with your talking points about apartheid and occupation...the real objective is to get rid of the world of Jews....
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Hamas was born through Israeli terrorism.
They've at least become more moderate through they years while Zionists have become more extreme.
Yes, more moderate, compare their 1988 charter with the 2013 version.
Then compare that with the unchanged Likud party charter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722053803749351504
 
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richaceg

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Frankfooter said:
Hamas was born through Israeli terrorism.
They've at least become more moderate through they years while Zionists have become more extreme.
Yes, more moderate, compare their 1988 charter with the 2013 version.
Then compare that with the unchanged Likud party charter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722053803749351504
Click to expand...
On the destruction of Israel:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)



The exclusive Moslem nature of the area:

"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)

"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)



The call to jihad:

"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)

"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)



Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:

"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)



Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

"Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32)



Anti-Semitic incitement:

The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Kautilya said:
Is it? So show me evidence. Make sure it isn't an anti-Israel position. Being anti-Israel is not antisemitic.

However, I can show you tons of examples, from this very thread (for example your post #6574) where anti-Palestinian attitudes are almost always racist, because they are Islamaphobic anti-Muslim attitudes where you talk negatively about "Muslims" - you know the 2 Billion of them
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You're darn right I talk negatively about Islam in general.
Its a toxic religion and everywhere it goes throughout the world it starts trouble.
I think its a cult not dissimilar than scientology, except Islam does a lot more killing
 
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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
We have read the Hamas charter. Yes, they are antisemitic. What does that have anything to do with what I said?

Explain that sentence to me. "Hamas was born like Nazi" - how were the Nazis born? What does that have to do with Hamas and how does that even compare? Are you saying there has been NO oppression of the Palestinians that hasn't played a huge, if not the ONLY role in the formation of a terrorist organization like Hamas? Are you saying that there is no occupation? Because the settlements etc would disprove that statement, if you were to make it. Are you saying there is no racism/apartheid? Israelis themselves will tell you different, and you can find what they say in the previous videos I posted on this very thread.
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There was none...conflicts yes..and Jews didn't start it....they have always been the receiving end...
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Kautilya said:
Christians kill a lot more people. Did you forget the 1M killed in Iraq. Or how about Vietnam? Or how about WW2? Christianity and Judaism are just as toxic.

If I convert to Judaism today for example, I still wont be considered a Jew. Because my mom is not Jewish. However, if I convert to Islam, I will be Muslim from day 1. So am wondering, which is the cult?

So yes, your generalized stereotyping of Islam, is racist
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Islam is not a race
 
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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
Christians kill a lot more people. Did you forget the 1M killed in Iraq. Or how about Vietnam? Or how about WW2? Christianity and Judaism are just as toxic.

If I convert to Judaism today for example, I still wont be considered a Jew. Because my mom is not Jewish. However, if I convert to Islam, I will be Muslim from day 1. So am wondering, which is the cult?

So yes, your generalized stereotyping of Islam, is racist.



Says who? Facts would disprove your statement. Jewish militants massacred Arabs as much as Arabs did. They were no different. I know you are trained in the western world to always consider Jews as victims, because the holocaust. However, this isn't actually true. They have oppressed and brutalized these Palestinians for atleast the last 50+ years. The oppressor painting themselves the victims is nothing new, because that then gives them the right to do whatever they want. That is what the Nazis did as well. That is why they were able to get support to kill so many Jews in just about every country they invaded. And currently this is what Israel is doing. They are always on the receiving end, they are always the angels. That justifies anything they do to murder, maim and steal from the Palestinians. Their oppression of the Palestinians does not exist. Heck some would argue that Palestinians do not exist. I mean if you deny their identity then you can also deny any injustices meted out to them right? It is evil and racist as fuck.
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Nobody says Jews are angels...but they have always been the receiving end of Arab violence...do they fight back, what else are they suppose to do? Was the 1948 attack by arab countries provoked by Jews? nope...the fact is, Israel learn a lot about their neighbors that year...you can't sleep on them. If anything....their arab neighbors is the reason why Israel is that way... constant aggression by their neighbors...
 
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