Israel at war

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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Kautilya said:
Nothing will happen if it is a constitutional secular democracy, in the ideal state I talked about. A secular state is not possible without the people agreeing to it and if the people agree to it, and such a state is formed, nothing will happen to the Jews. Jews are a minority here as well, and nothing happens to them. They were a minority in Muslim majority countries before Israel was formed, even under Islamic dictatorships and kingdoms, and nothing happened to them. Infact, you know where they were unsafe? In Europe. The "free" world, where 6 million of them got slaughtered.

That said, this is an ideal state, so it is not going to happen.



Before the formation of Israel, both Arabs and Israelis were forming their own respective militant groups and massacring each other. The whole modern zionism thing started with Herzl's publication of Der Judenstaat in 1896. Before that Jews were living peacefully in the middle east as minorities, amongst Muslims and the only place where they had problems was in Europe. So the formation of Israel was NOT legitimate. Israel should not have been formed in the first place. It was a classic case of colonial paper partition where the UK took land that did not belong to it and gave it to a people, who did not live there for the most part without consulting the local population there.

But TODAY it is a legitimate state, the same way Canada and the US are. Canada and the US were also formed via colonization of Native American land. But now, they are legitimate states, as enough time has passed. Similarly, Israel today is recognized, and people there have an identity etc., But not when it was formed. That was solely religiously driven nationalism and it was very unfair to the local population. "We lived here 2000 years ago" is not a legitimate argument. If it was, it would be legitimate of Native Americans to acquire superior weapons, and drive us all out of our homes, because they were here before us lol.
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Muslims don't want a secular state. Nor one with Jews in it.
 
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Leimonis

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Klatuu

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Leimonis said:
“Whoever is poorer and brownier is right and whoever is whiter and richer are wrong”
www.instagram.com

ASHER PRESS on Instagram: "Bill Maher - Colleges are not backing down, still support Hamas @gwuniversity"

8,614 likes, 608 comments - asherpress on November 2, 2023: "Bill Maher - Colleges are not backing down, still support Hamas @gwuniversity".
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
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Wow….Bill just self declared as old, out of touch and racist in the blink of an eye. His show will be gone within a year.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Klatuu said:
Wow….Bill just self declared as old, out of touch and racist in the blink of an eye. His show will be gone within a year
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Nah, he's just getting wiser and smarter with age
 
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Frankfooter

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Leimonis said:
“Whoever is poorer and brownier is right and whoever is whiter and richer are wrong”
www.instagram.com

ASHER PRESS on Instagram: "Bill Maher - Colleges are not backing down, still support Hamas @gwuniversity"

8,614 likes, 608 comments - asherpress on November 2, 2023: "Bill Maher - Colleges are not backing down, still support Hamas @gwuniversity".
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
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No, whoever backs genocide and apartheid is wrong.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721172364237345228

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721207868580344096
 
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Leimonis

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mandrill

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Frankfooter said:
You already admitted that all your accusations are bullshit.
Now you're just trolling because you have no answer to accusations you are defending terrorism.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721114736194900334
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Frankie, the whole 7 October atrocity was set up to achieve exactly what you are displaying. HAMAS ensured that it got a maximum force response from Israel and also ensured that this response entailed the maximum collateral damage to Gaza and its inhabitants.

Why did it set this up?

To display endless photos of destroyed houses, hospitals, schools and dead kids to people like you. It's a PR contest. It's deliberate.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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Kautilya said:
I don't think anyone is saying, dont do anything about it. Hamas needs to be neutralized. But the method that Israel is using is where the criticism is, because it is akin to burning the haystack to find the needle.
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But if THAT'S the only way to find the needle, that's what has to be done.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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Frankfooter said:
A reminder that most of those Israel are killing are already refugees who were ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.

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The fact that they are "refugees" 60 years after their grandparents were evicted from their residences in what is now Israel, means that they are not legitimate refugees. They are people whose parents and grandparents were not resettled elsewhere in the Arab world and given opportunities by those other Arab countries because they were - and are - exploited as human pathos trophies.

I have a buddy whose grandparents fled Stalin from Latvia in 1955. My buddy is a successful real estate agent. By what stretch of the imagination can people whose ancestors fled a country a half century ago be called "refugees".

I sympathize with the Gazans. They are trapped. But the people who trap them are the other Arab states and the corrupt HAMAS hierarchy who are billionaires and live outside the Gaza enclave.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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Kautilya said:
Are you saying Israelis are programmed robots that cannot make a choice?

The choice to respond the way they are, is solely theirs.

Whether or not Hamas intended for a human rights crisis to bring the world's attention to Gaza, Israel is the one causing the humanitarian crisis and "They started it!" is not an appropriate argument. That is endorsing war crimes.
Since they are unable to find the needle, it is clearly not. This is about punishing the Palestinians. It has nothing to do with getting hostages out or eradicating Hamas.
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Any and all countries are going to defend themselves from terrorist attacks. And that means going in and finding and killing the terrorists. If the terrorists deliberately surround themselves with a human shield and hole up in an urban environment that causes deliberate and inevitable collateral casualties to housing, infrastructure and civilians.

Israel isn't doing this. It's HAMAS.
 
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Butler1000

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www.reuters.com

Israel says it exposed Hamas network beneath and next to Gaza's hospitals

The Israeli military on Sunday said it has exposed a network of Hamas tunnels, command centres and rocket launchers beneath and adjacent to hospitals in northern Gaza.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

So much for war crimes. Hamas is firing on IDF from inside hospitals and using them for cover. There are tunnels directly under them used for military purposes.

Add on hundreds of Hamas rockets misfiring and ending up short, destroying civilian infrastructure and killing their own people in Gaza.
 
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