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Israel at war

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mandrill

mandrill

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DinkleMouse

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Frankfooter said:
No, I'm not asking for your opinions or trying to straw man you.
Though I did ask your opinion about a 'solution' or 'fix' to the entire situation.
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And when I have time to properly articulate it I will.

I appreciate your clarity and reference to the law. I have learned a few things and will try to be more careful in my language.
All i was trying to do was to clarify that dropping WP could still be a war crime even if its not an incendiary device.
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You're muddying the water with your phrasing.

It's not a war crime to use WP. Full stop. End of story. It's really that simple.

Committing a war crime while using WP is a war crime, yes; but that has nothing to do with the WP. It's also a war crime of you commit a war crime with a conventional bomb or a rifle or a standard C-13 fragmentation grenade.

WP is a conventional munition like any other munition. Which means it's characteristics need to be considered, but again that's true of everything.

If there's a bad guy in a room full of civilians it's not a war crime to shoot him in the head with a pistol. But it is a war crime to toss a grenade in there with no due regard for the civilian lives. The fact that a grenade has an area of effect does not mean special rules apply. You also couldn't shoot the civilians with the pistol you legally used to kill the bad guy or you'd also be committing a war crime. In either case it's not the use of the grenade or pistol that are the war crime, it's the indiscriminate murder of civilians.

So yes, if you drop WP on a group of kids playing in a school playground, you committed a war crime. But the war crime is not the use of WP; the war crime is the murder of children. You also couldn't drop a GBU-43B on the playground or fire a TLAM or PGM-19 into it. You couldn't even fire a standard M1028 anti-personnel tank round or open up with a machine gun at it. But it wouldn't be the use of the bombs, the missiles, the tank munition or the machine gun rounds that would be the war crime, is would be the murder of children.

So yes, it's possible to use WP in commission of a war crime. But that still doesn't make the use of WP a war crime.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
Earth to Klutz. Earth to Klutz.

Even frank knows that they do prosecute. He posted an image of 2 Israeli soldiers who got prosecuted.

You should apologize.
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Rarely, they rarely prosecute.
www.btselem.org

No Accountability

Accountability for human rights violations is crucial to justice and the rule of law. Israel shirks this responsibility when it comes to its actions in the Occupied Territories, instead putting in place systems which do no more than offer the semblance of law enforcement, in both criminal and...
www.btselem.org www.btselem.org
 
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Leimonis

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Frankfooter

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shack said:
You left out Hamas' losing streak. It's still going strong.

How is this one going to play out frank?
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International pressure will once again force Israel to stop killing Palestinians.
In 2021 the protests were massive and stopped Israel, but the big change was linking BLM to PLM.
That is now part of the dialog.

Israel will stop killing people eventually.
Then countries will start sanctioning Israel.
Eventually Israel will end apartheid.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719741756424528217


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719506230844989849

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719746869629247554

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1718593984480653335
 
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Frankfooter

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Leimonis said:
dude you post shit that comes straight from hamas. From baby killers. I don't think you'd recognize bullshit if it flew in your face.
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The only time I post from Hamas is to correct false claims about what they say.
The same way I post from Jewish sources to correct false claims that this is a Jewish genocide as opposed to a zionist one.
That's very different from posting videos with intentionally mistranslated clips.

You can decide if Hamas is lying by checking their actual sources but with MEMRI you're getting lies about the sources you can't check.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719864496859054392
 
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basketcase

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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
The only time I post from Hamas is to correct false claims about what they say.
...
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When has that happened? Are you talking about when Hamas admits what they did but you try and tell us Hamas is lying about their racist death cult?

You even outdid Hamas with their claims about the PIJ strike on the hospital. Hamas was saying 500 dead but you "corrected" them to say 800 even though later numbers are much lower.

The only times you "correct" what Palestinians say is when it gets in the way of your crusade.
 
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Frankfooter

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DinkleMouse said:
And when I have time to properly articulate it I will.


You're muddying the water with your phrasing.

It's not a war crime to use WP. Full stop. End of story. It's really that simple.

Committing a war crime while using WP is a war crime, yes; but that has nothing to do with the WP. It's also a war crime of you commit a war crime with a conventional bomb or a rifle or a standard C-13 fragmentation grenade.

WP is a conventional munition like any other munition. Which means it's characteristics need to be considered, but again that's true of everything.

If there's a bad guy in a room full of civilians it's not a war crime to shoot him in the head with a pistol. But it is a war crime to toss a grenade in there with no due regard for the civilian lives. The fact that a grenade has an area of effect does not mean special rules apply. You also couldn't shoot the civilians with the pistol you legally used to kill the bad guy or you'd also be committing a war crime. In either case it's not the use of the grenade or pistol that are the war crime, it's the indiscriminate murder of civilians.

So yes, if you drop WP on a group of kids playing in a school playground, you committed a war crime. But the war crime is not the use of WP; the war crime is the murder of children. You also couldn't drop a GBU-43B on the playground or fire a TLAM or PGM-19 into it. You couldn't even fire a standard M1028 anti-personnel tank round or open up with a machine gun at it. But it wouldn't be the use of the bombs, the missiles, the tank munition or the machine gun rounds that would be the war crime, is would be the murder of children.

So yes, it's possible to use WP in commission of a war crime. But that still doesn't make the use of WP a war crime.
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Yes, I agree.

But that's not to say this won't change or it shouldn't be a war crime. Given the injuries we're seeing in Gaza there may be a movement to make it a war crime.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719804821526524324
 
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Frankfooter

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basketcase said:
When has that happened? Are you talking about when Hamas admits what they did but you try and tell us Hamas is lying about their racist death cult?

You even outdid Hamas with their claims about the PIJ strike on the hospital. Hamas was saying 500 dead but you "corrected" them to say 800 even though later numbers are much lower.

The only times you "correct" what Palestinians say is when it gets in the way of your crusade.
Click to expand...
I hope you managed to keep the bile off your keyboard this time.

Israel is outdoing Hamas.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719523576800239654
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719753047117529220

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719788747292623010
 
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DinkleMouse

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Frankfooter said:
Yes, I agree.

But that's not to say this won't change or it shouldn't be a war crime. Given the injuries we're seeing in Gaza there may be a movement to make it a war crime.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719804821526524324
Click to expand...
You need to stop. You're out of your depth and being foolish. You're clearly just trying to make any changes you can to get Israel charged with as many war crimes as possible. It's unreasonable and would have repercussions that echo far beyond this conflict.

It shouldn't be a war crime. That's insanity. There are too many legitimate, useful uses of WP to make it's use a war crime. If Israel used it deliberately on civilians or used it where proportional proportionality didn't apply, or used it where a proportional proportionality case couldn't be made, then they've already committed a war crime (and not because they used WP, it still would've been a war crime if they'd used something else). Wanting to get the use of WP designated as a war crime are the actions of people who do not understand the rules of war or the tactical uses of WP. There's a reason it was excluded.

Having Article III amended wouldn't reduce the use of WP or incindiaries. It would just have 95% of the countries that are currently signatories to the CCW withdraw from it. Do you think that's better? Have no one follow or bound by any part of the CCW just because you wanted to be able to accuse Israel of committing a war crime while committing a different war crime? If they've committed a war crime you don't need WP made a war crime too. It's just getting silly now.

AOC called for a policy, not for it to be made a war crime. And I doubt it will pass because the US government themselves signed the CCW with the stipulation that they reserve the use of incindiary munitions (which WP isn't even) in civilian areas when appropriate and when proportionality applies.

As for the Amnesty international tweet... If they dropped conventional bombs indiscriminately on civilians it would be a war crime too. Calling out the use of white phos is a red herring and irrelevant, especially since they have such a horrendously flawed understanding of it.
 
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