"Israel, Similar to Apartheid": Ekos Canada Poll

[shack]

Darts, a right winger, says he stands with Trudeau on the issue of the Sikh assassination/killing in Canada. I appreciate that darts is willing to back Trudeau on this call. Though I'm still curious why someone who identifies here as Sikh would back apartheid. But I see you are here again pushing antisemitic tropes, accusing people of antisemitism for criticizing the state of Israel and its apartheid policy.

Are you still claiming its antisemitic to take a stand against a racist apartheid policy?
Even when there are Jewish groups like IJVCanada here that also taking a stand against Israeli apartheid?
Do you now also say that 60% of Canadians are antisemitic for calling Israel out on apartheid?
Do you also say that 25% of US Jews are also antisemitic for calling Israel apartheid?

Here's my post.

Frank, it seems that you've been asking darts for his opinion on several topics.

What types of responses have you been getting?

I guess I didn't see his responses to those questions.

Where do you get all this bullshit you claim I said from. Even forgetting the politics of what's being discussed, just the way you attempt to debate is despicable and disingenuous. You lie, lie and lie some more when you can't win a debate on merit alone. Like I said, the topic does not matter. I am just bashing your style of debating, so don't bother asking me any more of you stupid questions that twist the truth and claim people said things that they clearly didn't. You won't draw me in.

I just like to sit back and watch basketcase hand your ass to you every single time. You are sneaky, but you're no match for him. He's totally figured you out and is knowledgeable enough to counter your lies with facts and he shows how hypocritical you are with your racist double standards. Don't you get tired of constantly losing?

I know you won't admit it, even though you're smart enough to see what I say is true. If you can't see it, there's a corollary to the old saying of "love is blind", and it is "so is hate". You are in a blind rage. Get some help.

 

[Frankfooter]

Here's my post.
I guess I didn't see his responses to those questions.

Where do you get all this bullshit you claim I said from. Even forgetting the politics of what's being discussed, just the way you attempt to debate is despicable and disingenuous. You lie, lie and lie some more when you can't win a debate on merit alone. Like I said, the topic does not matter. I am just bashing your style of debating, so don't bother asking me any more of you stupid questions that twist the truth and claim people said things that they clearly didn't. You won't draw me in.

I just like to sit back and watch basketcase hand your ass to you every single time. You are sneaky, but you're no match for him. He's totally figured you out and is knowledgeable enough to counter your lies with facts and he shows how hypocritical you are with your racist double standards. Don't you get tired of constantly losing?

I know you won't admit it, even though you're smart enough to see what I say is true. If you can't see it, there's a corollary to the old saying of "love is blind", and it is "so is hate". You are in a blind rage. Get some help.

I'm on these threads arguing against apartheid and an illegal occupation.

All you've done is come here and insult people in defence of an apartheid regime.
So tell you what, go ahead and tell me what these reports have gotten wrong and why its racist to quote them.

Otherwise you sound like addict or mitch claiming victory every time they post, regardless of how foolish they look.
Prove these reports are wrong and antisemitic.

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians

Palestinians are systematically subjected to home demolitions and forced evictions, and live in constant fear of losing their homes. For more than 73 years, Israel has been forcibly displacing entire Palestinian communities. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians’ homes have been demolished...

www.amnesty.org

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...

www.hrw.org

Apartheid

The Israeli regime enacts in all the territory it controls (Israeli sovereign territory, East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip) an apartheid regime. One organizing principle lies at the base of a wide array of Israeli policies: advancing and perpetuating the supremacy of one group –...

www.btselem.org

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert

Calling on the international community to accept and adopt the recent findings in his report, an independent human rights expert said on Friday that “apartheid is being practiced by Israel in the occupied Palestinian territory”.

news.un.org

 

[Darts]

"I'm still curious, are you using that as justification for supporting apartheid under Israeli rule, that you really think life is better for Palestinians under apartheid?"

Smarter people than I have tried to solve the Israeli/Palestinian riddle and failed. In theory, the two state solution seem to be the best of a lot of bad choices, but that is now dead in the water. As SA showed getting rid of apartheid did not improve the lives of anybody in SA.

Why would anyone think getting rid of apartheid would improve anybody's lives in Israel? It might even make the situation worse.

Long story short somebody will have to force a partition like the Brits did in India/Pakistan but who will be that somebody? Partition won't be the perfect answer but the best of a bunch of bad choices.

 

[toguy5252]

"I'm still curious, are you using that as justification for supporting apartheid under Israeli rule, that you really think life is better for Palestinians under apartheid?"

Smarter people than I have tried to solve the Israeli/Palestinian riddle and failed. In theory, the two state solution seem to be the best of a lot of bad choices, but that is now dead in the water. As SA showed getting rid of apartheid did not improve the lives of anybody in SA.

Why would anyone think getting rid of apartheid would improve anybody's lives in Israel? It might even make the situation worse.

Long story short somebody will have to force a partition like the Brits did in India/Pakistan but who will be that somebody? Partition won't be the perfect answer but the best of a bunch of bad choices.

It will be a 2 state solution or nothing. There will NEVER be a 1 state solution.

 

[Darts]

It will be a 2 state solution or nothing. There will NEVER be a 1 state solution.

Yeah, that was the impression we got the two times we were in Israel. Our driver/tour guide (ex-IDF) always kept a long gun by her side.

There's been too much bad blood by both sides over the years. Both groups are too different in too many respects to co-exist in a single bosom. The story continues................................

Next, let's talk about the reunification of the two Irelands.

 

[Frankfooter]

"I'm still curious, are you using that as justification for supporting apartheid under Israeli rule, that you really think life is better for Palestinians under apartheid?"

Smarter people than I have tried to solve the Israeli/Palestinian riddle and failed. In theory, the two state solution seem to be the best of a lot of bad choices, but that is now dead in the water. As SA showed getting rid of apartheid did not improve the lives of anybody in SA.

Why would anyone think getting rid of apartheid would improve anybody's lives in Israel? It might even make the situation worse.

Long story short somebody will have to force a partition like the Brits did in India/Pakistan but who will be that somebody? Partition won't be the perfect answer but the best of a bunch of bad choices.

The Brits already tried partition in 1948, that's how we got here in the first place.
The gave 7% of the population 50% of the land.

How could the end of apartheid be worse than this?
Gaza: The world’s largest open-air prison
More than 50 years of occupation and 10 years of blockade have made the lives of 1,9 million Palestinians living inside the Gaza Strip unbearable. That is why they now are protesting and risking their lives.
Palestinian children and youth grow up in a society characterised by fear, lack of security, hopelessness and the lack of work, medical services, food, freedom of movement and other essentials. Today many refer to the Gaza Strip as the world’s largest open-air prison, where the prison guard is Israel.

 

[Frankfooter]

It will be a 2 state solution or nothing. There will NEVER be a 1 state solution.

The one state solution is here already.
There is no Palestine, only apartheid Israel.

The question now is do you back apartheid?

 

[toguy5252]

Yeah, that was the impression we got the two times we were in Israel. Our driver/tour guide (ex-IDF) always kept a long gun by her side.

There's been too much bad blood by both sides over the years. Both groups are too different in too many respects to co-exist in a single bosom. The story continues................................

Next, let's talk about the reunification of the two Irelands.

I have been in Israel many times and I a a little friendy with a few Palestinians who live there. They are not representative of al Palestinians of course but they have a good life and appear to be happy. I do belive that the average Palestinian and the average isreali could and do live very well together in Isreal. Regrettably for the last 60 years the Palestinian leadership have been selling a dream that will never come true.

I know Frankie and gryfon in his bew incarnation will be here to tell us about the evil israelis and apartheid etc. Whether you agree with them or not and it may be interesting to debate history etc. the race remains that there will NEVER be a one state solution and at some point both sides will have to make the very hard compromises that are necessary to get the Palestinians the sovereign state they deserve.

 

[Klatuu]

Yeah, that was the impression we got the two times we were in Israel. Our driver/tour guide (ex-IDF) always kept a long gun by her side.

There's been too much bad blood by both sides over the years. Both groups are too different in too many respects to co-exist in a single bosom. The story continues................................

Next, let's talk about the reunification of the two Irelands.

 

[toguy5252]

View attachment 260819

And hence the conflict continues. But you keep selling that dream. Sad.

 

[Klatuu]

I have been in Israel many times and I a a little friendy with a few Palestinians who live there. They are not representative of al Palestinians of course but they have a good life and appear to be happy. I do belive that the average Palestinian and the average isreali could and do live very well together in Isreal. Regrettably for the last 60 years the Palestinian leadership have been selling a dream that will never come true.

I know Frankie and gryfon in his bew incarnation will be here to tell us about the evil israelis and apartheid etc. Whether you agree with them or not and it may be interesting to debate history etc. the race remains that there will NEVER be a one state solution and at some point both sides will have to make the very hard compromises that are necessary to get the Palestinians the sovereign state they deserve.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394391261679849472

 

[toguy5252]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394391261679849472

You can debate the fairness, the legality or anything else. You are selling a dream that will never happen. Sad.

 

[shack]

I'm on these threads arguing against apartheid and an illegal occupation.

All you've done is come here and insult people in defence of an apartheid regime.
So tell you what, go ahead and tell me what these reports have gotten wrong and why its racist to quote them.

Otherwise you sound like addict or mitch claiming victory every time they post, regardless of how foolish they look.
Prove these reports are wrong and antisemitic.

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians

Palestinians are systematically subjected to home demolitions and forced evictions, and live in constant fear of losing their homes. For more than 73 years, Israel has been forcibly displacing entire Palestinian communities. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians’ homes have been demolished...

www.amnesty.org

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...

www.hrw.org

Apartheid

The Israeli regime enacts in all the territory it controls (Israeli sovereign territory, East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip) an apartheid regime. One organizing principle lies at the base of a wide array of Israeli policies: advancing and perpetuating the supremacy of one group –...

www.btselem.org

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert

Calling on the international community to accept and adopt the recent findings in his report, an independent human rights expert said on Friday that “apartheid is being practiced by Israel in the occupied Palestinian territory”.

news.un.org

Can't you read?

I told you that I have no interest in discussing the politics of the Middle East, especially not with someone of your ilk. The purpose of my post was to talk about you, not the situation in the middle east.

For example, you, as I pointed out, love the tactic of attempting to put words in other people's mouth. And you proved my assertion in this post. You just attempted to do it to me. You have no credibility on this topic. Every time you lose a debate with basketcase he exposes your hypocrisy and your loathsome tactics.

In this case, I am an observer/a Watcher and I've observed who you really are.

 

[Frankfooter]

I do belive that the average Palestinian and the average isreali could and do live very well together in Isreal. ..... the race remains that there will NEVER be a one state solution and at some point both sides will have to make the very hard compromises that are necessary to get the Palestinians the sovereign state they deserve.

Israel raided another refugee camp, Jenin, tonight. They killed 4 more.

The two state solution is gone.
How do you put 5 million people in this much land?

The only choice is to support BDS and try to end apartheid.

 

[Frankfooter]

Can't you read?

I told you that I have no interest in discussing the politics of the Middle East, especially not with someone of your ilk. The purpose of my post was to talk about you, not the situation in the middle east.

For example, you, as I pointed out, love the tactic of attempting to put words in other people's mouth. And you proved my assertion in this post. You just attempted to do it to me. You have no credibility on this topic. Every time you lose a debate with basketcase he exposes your hypocrisy and your loathsome tactics.

In this case, I am an observer/a Watcher and I've observed who you really are.

Hey Shack, how nice of you to join the discussion.
But don't forget this is a thread about how attitudes have changed in Canada, where people of my 'ilk', 60% of Canadians, say they think Israel is apartheid.
Even 25% of US Jews say Israel is apartheid.

You've never been able to argue why you think Israel isn't apartheid or why you support apartheid. All you do is jump here, insult people who defend the rights of Palestinians and now you're adding in not so veiled threats of 'watching'.

I've asked before, and you've never been able to answer, but, how do you see this playing out?

You, like basketcase, can't offer possible solutions with maps. Basketcase won't even or can't even, provide a map of where he thinks the borders of Israel are. Its a big problem of course. Legally only the 1948 borders are supported by the UN. The 1967 borders would pass and be agreed, but that means giving up settlements and land. Neither of you are willing to offer to hand back illegally gained land in the nature of peace either. But you also won't admit you think that the entire land of Israel/Palestine is now Israeli, because then you're admitting its the one state apartheid solution. So what's a hasbara guy to do? You do what basketcase does, refuse to say where you think the borders are, cheer for every new settlement and then say that once the Palestinians show a nice, loving attitude you'll negotiate a peaceful two state solution with a brand new guarded walkway between the prison of Gaza and the West Bank.

All that was clear long ago when you said you supported the two state solution but also:

The past is the past and it's been so long it is END OF STORY. No right of return or land claims for the Arabs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703579750499856878

 

[Klatuu]

Can't you read?

I told you that I have no interest in discussing the politics of the Middle East, especially not with someone of your ilk. The purpose of my post was to talk about you, not the situation in the middle east.

For example, you, as I pointed out, love the tactic of attempting to put words in other people's mouth. And you proved my assertion in this post. You just attempted to do it to me. You have no credibility on this topic. Every time you lose a debate with basketcase he exposes your hypocrisy and your loathsome tactics.

In this case, I am an observer/a Watcher and I've observed who you really are.

View attachment 260822

Does the daycare know you are using their laptop?

 

[niniveh]

Does the daycare know you are using their laptop?

Would You Call This EthnicCleansing?

 

[basketcase]

I literally just told you that Palestine had offered almost the entirety of East Jerusalem and Israel counter-offered with crap farm land in exchange for taking another 10% of Jerusalem. The rest of your questions were also all shit deals so of course Palestine didn't accept.

Source? Because actual sources don't record any offer like that. There may have been low level discussions that included that but if there were, I'm sure you're omitting some critical information about what the PA was demanding in return.

 

[basketcase]

I literally just gave you raw data in picture form of the actual numbers. You're an idiot.

You clearly don't understand the difference between raw data and analysis. Your need to rely on insults just proves you have no clue.

 

[basketcase]

You're flogging a dead horse.

Support for the concept of the two-state solution stands at 27% and opposition stands at 71%.
A majority of 74% believes that the two-state solution is no longer practical or feasible due to the expansion of Israeli settlement

Are you for or against this one state solution which the two sides enjoy equal rights? For 21%, Against 76%

You keep saying Two States (as supported by Canada, the UN, and the Arab league) is dead because only 27% of Palestinians support it but demand a One State as a solution despite only 21% supporting that. Nothing elitist about your refusal to either consider Palestinian opinion nor criticize them for not listening to you.