I do. I'm not the one supporting attacks on civilians because "you can't tell them apart". International law says civilians lose protections WHILE THEY ARE ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE.
"Israel, Similar to Apartheid": Ekos Canada Poll
- Thread starter niniveh
- Start date
Yep, Israel is "oppressing" Gaza by making hamas fire thousands of rockets towards Israeli populations.
And yes, it was a war. Gaza is fully controlled by Hamas. It may not be officially a country but the differences are minimal.
It's tricky but even you must know that there is not a single Israeli in Gaza (actually not quite right, I think Hamas still holds hostage a mentally ill Israeli who snuck across the border).
Well thanks for admitting that you're okay with genocidal nationalism when it comes from the Palestinians.
Wow you're embarrassing yourself. Were you not able to read the heading of your link?
Analysis and op-eds. As I said, second hand analysis.
This is the actual polling.
The executive analysis for their September polling is up but as normal, I will wait for the raw data instead of analysis.
Ah, the elitist colonial attitude telling them what's good for them. thanks for once again proving how little you actually care about palestinian self-determination.
Did you ever read what you wrote?(1) Lmao! First of all, this map was drawn by Abbas on a napkin based on a map Olmert had shown him but would not allow him to take a copy:
"Olmert met in mid-2008 with Mahmoud Abbas and showed him a map of the proposed swaps. Abbas was not allowed to keep a copy of the map, and so the 73-year-old Palestinian president had to sketch a copy by hand on a napkin...A set of talking points prepared by the NSU included a great deal of confusion about Olmert’s offer; the memo urged Abbas to ask for a copy of the map, and raised a number of questions about the territory swaps."
Hmm....not sketchy at all!
(2) Secondly, allowing a symbolic number of Palestinian refugees into Israel would not resolve the issue — because descendants of Palestinian refugees now numbered in the millions at that point and were scattered across the region.
(3) Finally, the proposed deal was crap and would have taken MORE land from the Palestinians, not given them anything extra:
"Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert wanted to annex more than 10% of the West Bank (including the major settlements in Ma’ale Adumim, Ariel and elsewhere), in exchange for sparsely-populated farmland along the Gaza Strip and the West Bank...Israel would keep all of its major West Bank settlements – Ma’ale Adumim, Ariel, Kedumim and others – none of which were included in the Palestinian offers.
PA offered to concede almost all of East Jerusalem, an historic concession for which Israel offered nothing in return.
Olmert also proposed a 'safe passage' – a territorial link between the West Bank and Gaza – that would be under Palestinian control yet remain under Israeli sovereignty. A special road would connect Bethlehem with Ramallah, bypassing East Jerusalem." <------Not much of a "safe passage" if the enemy owns it. This was at a time when Palestinians wanted and could reasonably ask for a geographically contiguous State that corresponded with the 1967 borders, based on how much land they still had at the time of this offer.
Conclusion: Olmert offered a crappy and ambiguous deal that he wasn't even willing to put in writing or share a map of publicly. He wanted Abbas to sign this deal at the meeting, when the details weren't even put in writing by Olmert. This was after Abbas was willing to concede almost all of East Jerusalem. Israel wanted to annex MORE land in exchange for a few tracts of bad farmland. Nobody with an ounce of common sense would accept such a raw deal.
1) Abbas' napkin was copied from the map he was shown which is the map I posted.
2) I know you don't care what Palestinians want but the most recent polling I could find has only 10% of refugees wanting to move to Israel. The poll is dated but I can't find any PCPSR polls more recent.
3) Why do you feel the need to make things up when the actual data is available?
Conclusion. Abbas didn't even make a counterproposal. He could have negotiated the number of refugees/descendants, he could have negotiated the amount or which land would be swapped (he is on record supporting the idea). Instead he walked away and made absolutely zero attempt to pursue ANY kind of negotiations, probably a) because it might threaten his cash cow, and b) because he knew most Palestinian factions wouldn't go along.
Just like Franky, a bunch of emotionally laden, factually deficient word salad trying to explain how you know far more than Palestinians.
For example, do you know what led to Hamas' formation? It has a lot to do with the PLO moving towards some kind of relations with Israel. You have this infantile view that Palestinians are just helpless victims while ignoring things like Hamas raison d'etre being the formation of an Islamic Caliphate. I would love it if Hamas et al lost sway but as it is, they have a shit load of weapons and aren't afraid to use them on anyone who threatens their power.
Do you really think your random tweets add anything to the discussion other than show your infantile obsessions?
Most people actually try and discuss their ideas. You seem to be either afraid or incapable of doing so. Maybe your English teach will one day show you how to create an argumentative essay.
Wait, so now you think the two state solution, with a Palestinian ethno state along side an Jewish ethno state is a bad idea?
When did that change happen?
Wow, you are still supporting trying to feed Palestinians in Gaza at starvation levels as if it were noble and not just a tiny bit Nazi like.
For someone who claims to know international law shouldn't you know that was a war crime according to the Geneva Conventions?
Yes, you are the ones supporting attacking civilians because you claim they are 'violent', like when they protest for basic human rights, resist settler terrorism, resist the occupation or even act as journalists.
To you, they are all 'engaged in violence'.
There never was a map, there was a description by Olmert and Abbas used it to draw a map.
The Israeli peace plan you rave about never included a map.
Just like you still can't draw a map of Israel.
You refuse to state where Israel lies and where or if Palestine lies.
We all know why, you clearly think its all Israel.
The one state, apartheid Israel solution you keep defending.
That's an antisemitic trope, trying to claim all Palestinians are tied to Hamas.
There is ample evidence of Olmert s chilly relationship with truth and ethics.
Ehud Olmert - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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Ok, yes, Olmert showed Abbas a map. But there is no copy in existence of this map. Al J has published a 'rendering' based on Abba's napkin map. But there is no copy of this map in existence anywhere.
The Al Jazeera version is not the map Olmert presented, its an attempt to render it based entirely off of Abbas's hand drawn napkin map.
Ok, point taken.
The Canadian poll is similar to polls in the US and EU now. South African apartheid was only ended after decades long grass root protests. Israeli apartheid is on its way now, politicians can't ignore their voters for that long.
U.S. Public Opinion is Changing Dramatically on Apartheid Israel, but Elected Officials Haven’t Received the Memo
A few days ago, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal accurately described Israel as a “racist state,” and the lobby impulsively pushed Congress to pass an unusual statement, with the usual automatic majority, saying Israel “is not a racist or apartheid state.”
bdsmovement.net
So, how is South Africa doing post apartheid (29 years later)?
"Currently, about 58.5% of Whites and 51% of Indians enter some form of higher education, compared to only 14.3% of Coloureds and 12% of Blacks."
Inequality in post-apartheid South Africa - Wikipedia
Are you trying to argue life is better under apartheid?
In a way, SA is a test case.
How is the economy doing?
What about civil rights? (minority rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc.)
Is crime low?
How does it rank compare to other countries? (No, I don't expect them to be number one like Canada.)
BTW: SA has fantastic weather.
How is the economy doing?
What about civil rights? (minority rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc.)
Is crime low?
How does it rank compare to other countries? (No, I don't expect them to be number one like Canada.)
BTW: SA has fantastic weather.
Your posts are really as nonsensical as Frankies. It's humorous that you post op-eds saying one thing while the actual polls say another, unless you think 21% is somehow bigger than 28%. Palestinians HATE the one state peace you think they should be forced into even more than the idea of Two States.
But yes, the fact that most Palestinians seem to reject any peace that involves Jews and despite your infantilization of them, that's a huge problem. But sure, continue your belief that armed Palestinian extremists will suddenly start shooting rainbows instead of rockets.
And I love how desperately you are trying to make excuses for Abbas walking away from an actual, productive peace plan without any desire to negotiate the offer.
Wait, you were just arguing that Palestinians have the right to kill Israeli Jews. Another own goal.
