Grooming children with clothing - Your thoughts?

What grooms kids more?

  • Pride Supportive clothing

  • Regular clothing (ie - girls short shorts)

  • Neither

  • Both

  • Don’t xare


Results are only viewable after voting.

Knuckle Ball

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I suspect that there are 1,000s of shows that we have no idea about and only the outlier/really bad ones are we really aware about. Thus, it may skew our perception of what really happens.
Probably true…but that’s because this whole issue is being driven by people who want to stir up hate against the trans community. The bizarre, off the wall stories are the only ones that serve their political interest so they barrage social media platforms with this stuff.

Here on terb, it’s the same people who used to post obsessively about Muslims doing bad things- every time a Muslim got a speeding ticket or jay walked there were breathless, pearl-clutching threads about how Muslims could not be assimilated into Western culture, No Go neighbourhoods that were ruled by Sharia Law, etc, etc,…. The mods here on terb, and most other mainstream social media platforms don’t allow islamophobic posting anymore so now they attack the trans community.

SSDD
 
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Not getting younger

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Probably true…but that’s because this whole issue is being driven by people who want to stir up hate against the trans community. The bizarre, off the wall stories are the only ones that serve their political interest so they barrage social media platforms with this stuff.

Here on terb, it’s the same people who used to post obsessively about Muslims doing bad things- every time a Muslim got a speeding ticket or jay walked their were breathless, pearl-clutching threads about how Muslims could not be assimilated into Western culture, No Go neighbourhoods that were ruled by Sharia Law, etc, etc,…. The mods here on terb, and most other mainstream social media platforms don’t allow islamophobic posting anymore so now they attack the trans community.

SSDD
I might double down on that and say anyone, anything that’s deemed different or abnormal from societies “norms”.
/points at mental health.
 

Butler1000

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I don’t know. I follow the careers of some of these drag queens and they are nothing like you describe.
So the ones being shown on TV are outliers?

I actually don't think its a common thing anyway. But I do think the ones out there are attempting to do it for positive reasons. The question is what is too young.
 

Butler1000

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I suspect that there are 1,000s of shows that we have no idea about and only the outlier/really bad ones are we really aware about. Thus, it may skew our perception of what really happens.
Jeez, so you get it! But I don't think there are 1000's of shows.
 

Not getting younger

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What data do ypu have percentage wise that aren't?
For what’s it’s worth.
Anyone that’s asserts anything should be the one that has something to support it.

Eg.
“The earth is round”
Vs
“The earth is flat”

I mean I can claim aliens walk amongst too, but if I want to be taken seriously…….

An appropriate age?
All kinds of reading material out there about how/when our brains develop. Continuing through to the early/mid 20s. Some believe that Hitler and Nazi youth is a prime example of how their minds can be influenced before being fully developed. “Their own persons, with their own minds/will”.

For me personally. Anything of this nature, prior to 12-14 is offside. Way offside.

We are all, every one of us. Products of our environment and upbringing.

“What does soceity deem normal and acceptable”. The greatest philosophers have weighed in on that. Morals and ethics. As society changes so to,do It’s morals, it’s laws etc. and if we want a real example of this. Anyone different from us was called a retard not many years ago…

Where do each of us find our moral compasses? It’s starts young. Really young. At home. As we age and experience life, our teens, we start to form our own.
 
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Jenesis

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So the ones being shown on TV are outliers?

I actually don't think its a common thing anyway. But I do think the ones out there are attempting to do it for positive reasons. The question is what is too young.
Again I don’t know it is an age problem but an age appropriate one. Reading three little pics in hilarious voices with a Drag queen covered from head to toe in a little pigs campy outfit / I can’t see the villainess act here.

Now if you want to talk about Drag Race AS Season 7 where they did a three little pigs skit then not age appropriate. That is ripe with sexual innuendos and undertones. Hell even overtones. It was hilarious as hell.

So just like time and place is important. Gay guys shouldn’t be swinging dicks in a parade, drag can be age appropriate.

Here is the thing - drag itself kind of started as a “fuck you” to societal norms. Gender mind fucking and all that. But it has evolved so much past that and yet people who look at drag from the outside are stuck in the box of that original fuck you attitude that was presented. So in a way I get it but in this day and age, it should be able to be properly discussed with an open mind. However too many are simply closed minded to even a discussion.

It is now an actual entertainment form, not just cross dressers dancing to Cher and Tina.
 
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basketcase

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We're not setting women for disaster....the disaster has arrived....in the form of men dressing up as women and has taken a lot from women....in a short period of time....
...
So sad that people have been so easily convinced about a non-existent 'threat' that they can't even consider how 'groomed' our society has been in terms of gender and sexualization. Personally, I think any parent putting their 3 year olds in pageants should be in jail (and same for those coach parents trying to make their 5 year old into the next Tiger Woods).

And the ironic part of it is the idealized past these guys desire didn't differentiate childhood clothing based on sex.


But maybe I've just been groomed by a childhood where frogs sang songs about rainbows, women and dogs were just as good detectives as guys, and stuffed bears talked about caring for each other.
 

basketcase

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...The latest thing about school teachers not telling parents about the change children’s pronouns and names is a big issue. It is no different than the guy in the ice cream truck telling children to step in his van - while creepy music is playing - and saying let’s share a secret from your parents……
Wow that's fucked up. Do you really think kids choosing what they want to be called is the same as sexual assault?
 

mandrill

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This is true to a certain extent. I think a lot of the pushback against the Drag Shows - which used to be by gay men for gay men - is that we're told is good and healthy - or else. Whereas the child pageants we know are creepy AF and are allowed to criticize it.

View attachment 245454
What's bad and unhealthy about a room full of gay men laughing at a gay man dressed as a lady?... Sounds pretty cheery to me.

You've got to be looking pretty hard for things to get angry about to pick on that one.

Little girls dressed in tight, short dresses dancing provocatively is creepy in our culture where young people are not supposed to be sexualized for the amusement of adults.
 
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mandrill

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So Ross Petty does drag at Xmas every year. But it is Pantomime drag. Other comedians also did drag dating back to Minton Berle, Tom Hanks, Robin Williams, in modern media and to doubt even further.

But it was always played solely for laughs. A dude in a dress looks unfainly, funny, and with a bit if over the top action just works.

The readings etc are as much about politicizing things. And quite simply some parents don't want their kids education time in grade school to be about politics. They want to maintain their innocence for a bit.
That I think is where the line is.

I believe in the use of sex education to teach about being gay. As much as about the biological functions and societal standards of behavior. I think most parents agree.
I haven't checked the elementary school curriculum recently, but I am vaguely guessing that it has some stuff about "accepting Little Johnny, even though he has 2 dads". I'm trying hard to see what's offensive about that.

There's always going to be some stuff that parents probably don't like about school curricula. And different parents are going to dislike different stuff. OTOH, the Board of Education decides this stuff under the auspices of Queens Park. You don't like that?.... Then vote out super left wing radical Doug Ford and his Tories and elect that guy with an Adolph Hitler haircut and moustache who talks about "white heritage traditional values".

Good luck doing that..... 😼
 
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mandrill

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Ask why anyone is paying Drag Queens to parade before an audience of children.
Who is actually doing that, Harry?

Have you researched this burning, all important question?
 

Jenesis

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We are kind of going off topic - ish.

I wanted to compare pride supportive childrens clothing vrs regular children’s clothing and see which, if any, is grooming children more.

Is having a t-shirt with a rainbow and the word Pride written on it, worse than a little girl outfit of short shorts and spaghetti straps????

Are they both wrong? One right - one wrong?
 

Knuckle Ball

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The history of drag, and how drag queens got pulled into politics
October 29, 2022 / 10:16 AM
Lately, drag has been dragged through the mud.

The art form has been cast in a false light in recent months by right-wing activists and politicians who complain about the "sexualization" or "grooming" of children. Opponents often coordinate protests at drag events that feature or cater to children, sometimes showing up with guns. Some politicians have proposed banning children from drag events and even criminally charging parents who take their kids to one.

Performers and organizers of events, such as story hours in which colorfully clad drag queens read books to children, say the protesters are the ones terrorizing and harming children and making them political pawns — just as they've done in other campaigns around bathroom access and educational materials.

The recent headlines about disruptions of drag events and their portrayal as sexual and harmful to children can obscure the art form and its rich history.

WHAT IS DRAG?

Drag is the art of dressing and acting exaggeratedly as another gender, usually for entertainment such as comedy, singing, dancing, lip-syncing or all of the above.

Drag may trace its roots to the age of William Shakespeare, when female roles were performed by men. The origin of the term is debated, but one possibility is that it was coined after someone noticed the dresses or petticoats that male actors wore onstage would drag along the floor. Another casts it as an acronym — an unproven notion that notes in scripts would use "DRAG" to indicate the actor should "dress as a girl."

Drag performances could later be seen on the vaudeville circuit and during the Harlem Renaissance. They became a mainstay at gay bars throughout the 20th century, and remain so.

RuPaul took things a step further with his reality-competition show "RuPaul's Drag Race," which became an award-winning hit and allowed drag to explode in popularity — and into the mainstream.

IS DRAG SEXUAL?

Many drag opponents cite nudity in their objections. Every performer makes different choices, but drag queens often wear more, not less, clothing than you'd see on a typical American woman of the 21st century, at a public beach or on network TV.

Their costumes tend toward extravagant, sometimes floor-length gowns. Drag queens may use false breasts, wear sheer costumes, and use makeup or other means to show cleavage and appear exaggeratedly feminine.

The difference, performers note, is that opponents of drag see sexual deviance in the cross-dressing aspect.

Drag does not typically involve nudity or stripping, which are more common in burlesque, a separate form of entertainment. Explicitly sexual and profane language is common in performances meant for adult audiences. Such routines can consist of stand-up comedy that may be raunchy — or may pale in comparison with some mainstream comedians.

SHOULD CHILDREN SEE OR DRESS IN DRAG?

It's up to parents and guardians to decide that, just as they decide whether their children should be exposed to or participate in certain music, television, movies, beauty pageants, concerts or other forms of entertainment, parenting experts say.

Performances in nightclubs and brunches meant for adults may not be suitable for children, while other events, such as drag story hours, are tailored for children and therefore contain milder language and dress.

Drag performers and the venues that book them generally either don't allow children if a performance has risque content, or else require children to be accompanied by a parent or guardian — basically, how R-rated movies are handled by theaters.

Drag story hours, in which performers read to children in libraries, bookstores or other venues, have become popular in recent years. The events use a captivating character to get their child's attention — any parent whose kid can't take their eyes off Elsa from "Frozen" gets the idea. The difference here is that the goal is to get kids interested in reading.

Some children have performed drag at age-appropriate events. One 11-year-old who dons a princess dress and tiara was scheduled recently to perform at a story and singing event at an Oregon pub — but was downgraded to "guest of honor" after protests outside broke out into fighting.

"Part of keeping our children safe is allowing them to be children, to be playful, to take risks, and to be silly, without it necessarily meaning anything deeper or more permanent," says Amber Trueblood, a family therapist. "Many parents are OK with children dressing as assassins, evil villains or grim reapers, yet they seldom take the costume choice to mean anything more than playful and fun."

THREATS AND 'GROOMING'

Opponents of drag story hours and other drag events for audiences of children often claim they "groom" children, implying attempts to sexually abuse them or somehow influence their sexual orientation or gender identity.

The term "grooming" in a sexual sense describes how child molesters entrap and abuse their victims. Its use by opponents of drag, as well as by protesters in other realms of LGBTQ opposition, seeks to falsely equate it with pedophilia and other forms of child abuse.

Perpetrators of the false rhetoric can then cast themselves as saviors of children and try to frame anyone who disagrees — a political opponent, for example — as taking the side of child abusers.

The objections are often religious in nature, with some opponents citing the devil at work. Threats to drag events, and story hours in particular, have increased along with the rhetoric. In addition to the protest in Oregon that failed to suppress one such event, organizers of a recent one in Florida did cancel theirs after what they said were threats from hate groups.

The threats are likely an attempt to scare parents into not taking their children to such events, leading them to fizzle out and push drag back into the closet, observers say. Some organizers, parents and performers have dug in their heels, insisting they won't cave.

In another tactic to discourage attendance, drag opponents have been known to attend performances, take and post a video that lacks context, and then troll or "dox" the performer or venue.

One such video clip showed a profane drag act in front of a young child and framed it as abuse — though the child was with adults and the venue had advised attendees about coarse content, suggested parental discretion and required any children to be accompanied by parents.

Other undermining efforts include a false claim that a performer flashed children at a Minnesota library and another false claim that the head of the Drag Queen Story Hour organization was arrested for child pornography.

Despite some opponents' claims, drag cannot "turn" a child gay or transgender, although its playful use of gender may be reassuring to kids who are already questioning their identity. That way, therapist Joe Kort wrote in a blog post in Psychology Today, gender-nonconforming kids can have "other templates as they begin to sort out their feelings about who they authentically are."

 
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xix

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La la land
Well there are only two camps.
Parents skills, income or peer pressure?

I have seen some of the prices for clothing for kids. If I had kids I would have them dressed as Monks or Gandhi through their schooling ;)

I don't like labels or figures on my clothing. I am not getting paid to walk around like a bill board. So No, dress normally kid.
 

Jenesis

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Well there are only two camps.
Parents skills, income or peer pressure?

I have seen some of the prices for clothing for kids. If I had kids I would have them dressed us Monks or Gandhi through their schooling ;)

I don't like labels or figures on my clothing. I am not getting paid to walk around like a bill board. So No, dress normally kid.
That is another good point. Price. If the shit is cheaper, some parents may not have the choice.
 

Knuckle Ball

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We are kind of going off topic - ish.

I wanted to compare pride supportive childrens clothing vrs regular children’s clothing and see which, if any, is grooming children more.

Is having a t-shirt with a rainbow and the word Pride written on it, worse than a little girl outfit of short shorts and spaghetti straps????

Are they both wrong? One right - one wrong?
I’m not sure about the children’s clothing issue. I agree with what other people have said about children’s beauty pageants. I would also include children’s dance contests in that group; I also wonder about how the young girls in Olympic gymnastics are being portrayed at times.

I can’t say that I’ve been shocked or concerned in the same way with clothing I see kids typically dressed in. However, it does seem kinda odd that the girls’ shorts are so much shorter than the boys so…I dunno. I may be too indoctrinated in our culture to see it objectively but that’s my opinion.

As far as wearing a Pride T-shirt, I have no concerns whatsoever that wearing a Pride shirt would somehow turn a child gay. It may be that if the child does in fact turn out to be gay/lesbian/trans then they will understand and cope better with their sexual identity compared to those who were raised to feel ashamed of it. Moreover, the child may learn to be more tolerant and accepting of people in the lgbtq community than a child who was raised to fear and hate them.

Frankly, tho, the people harming children are the ones obsessed with ginning up hate against the lgbtq community.
 
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