The Ukrainian offensive starts

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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So I take it you won't be buying tickets to my evening stand up routine at Yuk Yuks?

...nor my morning sit down shit schtick potcast? :ROFLMAO:
No, not even if for shits and giggles.
 
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squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
20,778
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You're still ignoring our President does not have the final say on funding. It's kind of like I'm saying hate Trump, but don't make everything about your hate for Trump.

I enjoy cable news narratives as much as anyone, but realize there is usually a fact or two that quickly punctures a hole in the argument. Believe it or not, I frequently do that to my conservative friends who tend to believe everything they hear.
Let's go back to something you previously stated
Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting. A Republic is an expression of public will through the election of our representatives.
Just to use as an example of this "Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting." Abortion rights???? Yeah, that pesky little noose around the Republican's neck. The majority poll after poll want women to have the right to abortion, YET, in many states, it's not allowed thanks to Trump and his federal cohorts. It kind of blows your scenario into the toilet, yes, back to schlongs post.
 
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WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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Just to use as an example of this "Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting." Abortion rights???? Yeah, that pesky little noose around the Republican's neck. The majority poll after poll want women to have the right to abortion, YET, in many states, it's not allowed thanks to Trump and his federal cohorts. It kind of blows your scenario into the toilet, yes, back to schlongs post.
Do you really want to discuss Abortion rights, States' rights and the whole shebang HERE?

I support abortion rights, but even that has nuance not just in my thought but across the Western world.

PS- There is always a strong anti-Republican theme from many here that cherry picks issues in our system that give Republican policies advantages. However, these members selectively ignore and dismiss advantages given the Democrats. These members make these selective cases either to manipulate, out of ignorance of the American system of government and/or simply because they are copacetic with progressive policies. I hesitate to mention all the unpopular policies California Democrats have enacted knowing some here will argue profusely for the craziest of the policies. This simply to be "on the team" sort of speak.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
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Do you really want to discuss Abortion rights, States' rights and the whole shebang HERE?

I support abortion rights, but even that has nuance not just in my thought but across the Western world.

PS- There is always a strong anti-Republican theme from many here that cherry picks issues in our system that give Republican policies advantages. However, these members selectively ignore and dismiss advantages given the Democrats. These members make these selective cases either to manipulate, out of ignorance of the American system of government and/or simply because they are copacetic with progressive policies. I hesitate to mention all the unpopular policies California Democrats have enacted knowing some here will argue profusely for the craziest of the policies. This simply to be "on the team" sort of speak.
Speaking of democracy and the courts, how do you feel about billionaires being able to game the system to put federalist society judges like Kavanagh and Cannon in power, judges who execute a mandate not based on the will of the people?

How a Secretive Billionaire Handed His Fortune to the Architect of the Right-Wing Takeover of the Courts
In the largest known political advocacy donation in U.S. history, industrialist Barre Seid funded a new group run by Federalist Society co-chair Leonard Leo, who guided Trump’s Supreme Court picks and helped end federal abortion rights.
 
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squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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Do you really want to discuss Abortion rights, States' rights and the whole shebang HERE?

I support abortion rights, but even that has nuance not just in my thought but across the Western world.

PS- There is always a strong anti-Republican theme from many here that cherry picks issues in our system that give Republican policies advantages. However, these members selectively ignore and dismiss advantages given the Democrats. These members make these selective cases either to manipulate, out of ignorance of the American system of government and/or simply because they are copacetic with progressive policies. I hesitate to mention all the unpopular policies California Democrats have enacted knowing some here will argue profusely for the craziest of the policies. This simply to be "on the team" sort of speak.
So you do not feel abortion rights are an albatross around the neck of Repugs eh? Trump is terrified of what he's done although he tries to spin the removal of Roe v. Wade as a victory but he knows it's going to hurt him. I'm disappointed that such an astute political American citizen as yourself is so out of touch with what the majority of the women in the US want.

So tell me, after you read the indictments, is Trump in legal trouble?? I really want to hear the thoughts of an astute political American citizen. Perhaps I won't need to tune in to CNN if you show me the light. LOL
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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Franky, STOP IT!! Now Sir Wyatt is going to lump you in with Bev and me. After all, you're a Canadian I assume, and do not understand the reality, nuances, and complexity of American politics.
 
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WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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So tell me, after you read the indictments, is Trump in legal trouble?? I really want to hear the thoughts of an astute political American citizen. Perhaps I won't need to tune in to CNN if you show me the light. LOL
I don't really know. It seems like he will be found guilty of something. I don't know what the penalty will be.

For me it's all a bit of a distraction because I do find similarities between the Trump case and Clinton, Biden and Pence. Of course, he's stubborn and makes things far worse than they need to be. He's stubborn and old. I'm just not sure they're going to throw the book at him. I also don't know if people other than his detractors are very interested.

This all with the backdrop that it won't go to court before the election.

I'm on record in previous cases that bringing a lot of charges (37) in my opinion tends to show weakness on the part of the prosecutor either in the strength of their case or bowing to political pressure. Most Americans are unfazed by the number of charges in court cases. The prosecutor could have brought a couple charges and the case likely would have been just as strong.

Since you seem to want to lean into the drama, you need to find a suitable foil for that drama. I don't really care about the outcome of the case one way or another.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
20,778
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I don't really know. It seems like he will be found guilty of something. I don't know what the penalty will be.

For me it's all a bit of a distraction because I do find similarities between the Trump case and Clinton, Biden and Pence. Of course, he's stubborn and makes things far worse than they need to be. He's stubborn and old. I'm just not sure they're going to throw the book at him. I also don't know if people other than his detractors are very interested.

This all with the backdrop that it won't go to court before the election.

I'm on record in previous cases that bringing a lot of charges (37) in my opinion tends to show weakness on the part of the prosecutor either in the strength of their case or bowing to political pressure. Most Americans are unfazed by the number of charges in court cases. The prosecutor could have brought a couple charges and the case likely would have been just as strong.

Since you seem to want to lean into the drama, you need to find a suitable foil for that drama. I don't really care about the outcome of the case one way or another.
So in other words, you are fine with voting for a criminal who held secrets to your country's vulnerabilities, nuclear info and possible strikes of enemies in his closet at Maro Lago, A former President of the United States who refused to give them back when ordered to do so. As Pence and Biden both did and opened their doors to the FBI and happily gave everything asked for back. No Raid was necessary for Pence nor Biden yet even after your boy was raided he still continued to hide documents and yet, you are ready to hand him your vote in 2025. You know he is the leading candidate by a longshot for the Republican party and more than likely will be on the ticket. I will also add, an individual and party that constantly lies to you, yet, you an astute and savvy political American citizen is ready to drop an X by Donald's name in hopes of becoming number 47 and begin his revenge run of office, right?

If I've made any of this up, please correct me.
 
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SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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I think Zelensky should extend an olive branch to Prigozhin and see if Wagner would fight on behalf of Ukraine against the Russians. Now that would be a turning point in the war.


Now THAT would be like jcpro getting topped by the hairiest pre-op trans with a 15" baseball bat of a cock!

Alas, Ukraine is more principled so not a chance in hell of it happening. Besides, Prigozhin and Shoigu fighting will do more damage. Russia will fail from within, by its own hand.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,568
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Do you really want to discuss Abortion rights, States' rights and the whole shebang HERE?

I support abortion rights, but even that has nuance not just in my thought but across the Western world.

PS- There is always a strong anti-Republican theme from many here that cherry picks issues in our system that give Republican policies advantages. However, these members selectively ignore and dismiss advantages given the Democrats. These members make these selective cases either to manipulate, out of ignorance of the American system of government and/or simply because they are copacetic with progressive policies. I hesitate to mention all the unpopular policies California Democrats have enacted knowing some here will argue profusely for the craziest of the policies. This simply to be "on the team" sort of speak.
Oh, what policies are those, Earp?
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,980
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Or they are making a mistake, or even worse, they know they are making a mistake but they are prepared to spend lives for political reasons.

p.s. Have you ever played any serious wargames?
Nah, moved out of my mom's basement when I was 18.

Zero interest in virtual or fantasy anything. Real life is so much more interesting.


Of course, it's not the same as actual military command experience, but they are designed by people who either have that experience or have researched deeply into the topic. The military uses them for command training. EVERY one of these simulations punishes combatants who attack fortified positions without overwhelming firepower. And, in addition, do you know what is always the enemy of the force which starts out better armed? Time (in gaming terms - they have limited game turns to accomplish their objectives). There are real world reasons for these common design elements.
Does World of Warcraft have adjustments for things like the morale (or lack thereof) of individual soldiers? Of military incompetence? Fundamental supply chain problems? Foundational corruption? Can your your enemy divide itself from within with, say, a Prigohzin character?



There is no doubt that the Russians are unscrupulous in war - to their enemies and to their own troops. Every instinct would direct a person to hit back as soon as possible for such behaviour. But that is not how wars are won by weaker forces.
Maybe if the "weaker force" acted emotionally, on impulse. That would make it the weaker force right there. Like Russia.

Lots of examples of big 400 lb meatheads getting their heads shoved up their own asses by a more intelligent, more disciplined "weaker" and lighter opponent.

Anyways, thanks for the discussion but shouldn't you be getting back downstairs to the battle?

 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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I don't really know. It seems like he will be found guilty of something. I don't know what the penalty will be.

For me it's all a bit of a distraction because I do find similarities between the Trump case and Clinton, Biden and Pence. Of course, he's stubborn and makes things far worse than they need to be. He's stubborn and old. I'm just not sure they're going to throw the book at him. I also don't know if people other than his detractors are very interested.
What "similarities" do you find?

Why would anyone - other than his "detractors" - be interested in a fuckwit ex president who is so mentally ill and senile that he steals government records and hides them like an old lady hiding knick-knacks?

Let the "Parade of Whatabout-y" begin!!

This all with the backdrop that it won't go to court before the election.

I'm on record in previous cases that bringing a lot of charges (37) in my opinion tends to show weakness on the part of the prosecutor either in the strength of their case or bowing to political pressure. Most Americans are unfazed by the number of charges in court cases. The prosecutor could have brought a couple charges and the case likely would have been just as strong.

Since you seem to want to lean into the drama, you need to find a suitable foil for that drama. I don't really care about the outcome of the case one way or another.
You know absolutely nothing about being a lawyer or a prosecutor, do you? You're opinion is wrong and pretty much worthless, agreed?
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,931
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What "similarities" do you find?

Why would anyone - other than his "detractors" - be interested in a fuckwit ex president who is so mentally ill and senile that he steals government records and hides them like an old lady hiding knick-knacks?

Let the "Parade of Whatabout-y" begin!!


You know absolutely nothing about being a lawyer or a prosecutor, do you? You're opinion is wrong and pretty much worthless, agreed?
The number 37 is much better than the number 2.

37 is such an be-ooti-full number, some would say the most be-ooti-full number ever. Itz ex-cuiz-it, and ella-quint.

"Say his number! Say his number! Say his number!"

"Number 37!!!!!"

"Jack Smith, if you can hear us. Do justice for the number 37!!!!"
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
7,346
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You do realize that Puttanesca is a pasta sauce originated by Italian prostitutes, don't you? Do you really have to insult them here of all places by linking them to Vladimir Putin?
As an ogre don't get me started on how they use the term Orc, my WAAAGH! broheims to refer to Russians. Sadness intensifies. It's enough to make the Great Maw himself weep.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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I'm just not sure what "political will" means in an autocracy like Russia. Putin seems impervious to public opinion. It seems he couldn't care less that educated Russians are leaving the country.

Since the Ukrainian successes last year, I've seen people speculating that Putin will be deposed. I don't think it's a bold opinion to say the Ukraine and the West can't base strategy on this hope.
According to a TVO series on dictators, they say the people you really have to worry about are the other elites. Why they are plastered with so much goodies and so many threats. Exceptions exist I am sure. This is not a hill I am willing to die on, however it seems most of the talking heads are talking a coup from the top, not the bottom, but I suppose if he pushes his people hard enough, like calling up every Ivan Average to the colours and the war becomes their problem, we might see problems. Or not. It would explain why Poutine hasn't gone full potato with calling up more blood for the blood god.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
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They are in a race to get as much done before 2024 in the crazy event the MagaTwats were to take power again and cause turmoil within Nato and funding.
True that, but they got this fall and all of next year to make them sick gains. Advantage of starting later is that voters tend to have a very short memory like Crusty the Clown and Bart, who forgot everything Bart did for him except the moment before when he got him a pastry. Going balls deep during the election run would help more than doing so now.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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This wouldn't be the first time you failed to appreciate or understand how Democracy works. No U.S. politician regardless of party is going to do anything that is unpopular with the American public. Since the U.S. is the country mostly bankrolling the Ukrainian cause, it makes sense we would have a voice.

In response to the topic at hand, I think if the conflict is still raging in January 2025 it would be very bad for the Ukrainians regardless of the 2024 election result. The Ukrainians can't afford a fourth year of war in terms of manpower. Forget materials and equipment. Historically, Russia has won many wars from attrition of the enemy and sustaining losses most countries would not.
It's almost criminal that we are not "Shut up and take all our money/gear" to the Ukrainains, gearing up production and training facilities, going whole hog on that beyatch.
We should probably send peacekeepers on a goodwill mission along the Belarus/Ukraine border, after all they are not at war so in theory and practice we are not interfering, release loads of troops for the fight. We could encourage retired pilots and ground crew with F16 experience to go all Flying Tigers/Russians in Korea over there and provide funding [indirectly] so much more shit we could be doing.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Well, Russia lost its wars in Finland, Afghanistan and the Cold War, so attrition doesn't always work.....

I do agree that Russians have incredible resiliency when suffering unbelievable hardship during war. They did defeat the Nazis using such resiliency......
Erm, Russia did win vs Finland, twice, the first time was very much a ground and pound grindfest.
I am not saying your thesis is completely wrong, but attrition doesn't work only when you have some advantage that they don't so the attrition ratio is just too much. 'Whatever happens, we have got The Maxim gun, and they have not.' and although the Russians are not doing well, Ukraine doesn't have THAT sort of advantage.
 
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