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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Strategically unimportant:

That what Zelensky said about Bakhmut.
It is very important, the most important place in the world, nowhere is more important, and nobody knows about importance than he does

If that is what it takes into getting the Russians to spend months doing a frontal assault on an urban area like a bunch of gullible mooks. Even better, give up some ground to make them think they are doing well.

Of course once it is taken, it's done it's job and it goes back to being unimportant random clay.
 

Addict2sex

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2017
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Look at Ukraine numbers of killed by Russian army.


PS. Prigozhin talks of losing while winning..
whereas US commanders invariably talk of winning while getting their a$$es kicked!
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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kingston
Look at Ukraine numbers of killed by Russian army.


PS. Prigozhin talks of losing while winning..
whereas US commanders invariably talk of winning while getting their a$$es kicked!
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Also Macgregors statements on the conflict in the past.
MacGregor was wrong when he said, before the invasion, that the Russians would obliterate the Ukrainians.
Then in March 2022, he said that the Russian army was “too gentle”, but now “will complete everything” within 10 days
Douglas Macgregor has said there's no point in sanctioning Russia and that America should "absolutely" let Putin take over as much of Ukraine as it wants.
He was nominated as the US ambassador to Germany but was denied because of his history of racism.
Lots more but he has been a supporter of Russia and Putin since at least 2016 an while he was an advisor in the previous US administration.
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
14,864
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...., let me just recommend you read "They Thought They Were Free", because you're on the wrong side of history, supporting a war criminal because you bought some bullshit propaganda, and maybe, just maybe, reading and other people who fell for propaganda will help you see reality.
Great book.

Here is an excerpt: https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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whereas US commanders invariably talk of winning while getting their a$$es kicked!
When did this happen. One example.

The US doesn't lose wars, they lose interest in wars, that is very different than getting your ass kicked. I don't suppose a hate monger would be able to tell the difference.
 

DinkleMouse

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2022
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When did this happen. One example.

The US doesn't lose wars, they lose interest in wars, that is very different than getting your ass kicked. I don't suppose a hate monger would be able to tell the difference.
Want to see how to run a "Special Military Operation"? Check the Liberation of Kuwait. Coalition forces had secured the country and Iraqi forces were in full retreat across the border by D+4.

Or if you wanna get spicy, take the Invasion of Iraq, which lasted barely a month. Sure, they had trouble controlling the populace, but at no point was there any hint they would lose their occupation of every single key area. The Battle of Baghdad took 6 days.

In fact, it took exactly the same number of days for the Coalition to go from stepping across the border to securing the capital as it took for Russia to step across the border and pull all troops back from their failed attempt to take the capital. 1 month, 1 week, 4 days.

It's like people who joke about how the French always retreat.... You immediately know they have never cracked a textbook and have no knowledge of the subject.

What I find even crazier is they say the US was responsible for regime change in Ukraine, but then go on about how useless and incompetent the US is. Pretty contradictory statements.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
87,264
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Look at Ukraine numbers of killed by Russian army.


PS. Prigozhin talks of losing while winning..
whereas US commanders invariably talk of winning while getting their a$$es kicked!
McGregor is a neo fascist shit-weasel.

On the "underclass" and slavery
In a 2013 radio appearance, Macgregor spoke of an "entitled" "underclass" of people that were concentrated in "large urban areas", and the threat they posed.

"And when the food stamps stop, when the free services end, when the heating bills aren’t paid and the heating doesn’t come through in many of these large cities—Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles—this underclass that resides in these places, I think could become very violent."[34]
In 2019, he argued for the myth that there were more White, mostly Irish "slaves" than African slaves in America in the late 1700s.[34]

On the Kosovo War
In 2014, Macgregor went on Russian state-owned RT to express his opposition to U.S. intervention in the Kosovo War.[26] He described the results of US intervention in Kosovo as to "put, essentially, a Muslim drug mafia in charge of that country".[3]

On NATO
In a 2016 presentation to military students, Macgregor said that "old alliances like NATO may vanish", arguing that it is "time to reexamine U.S. investment in 'allies' that are doing too little to secure their own sovereign interests" and that the "Cold War ended 27 years ago".[41]

On immigration
In 2020, CNN reviewed his public commentary and

found he often demonized immigrants and refugees. He warned Mexican cartels were "driving millions of Mexicans with no education, no skills and the wrong culture into the United States, placing them essentially as wards of the American people". He repeatedly advocated instituting martial law at the US-Mexico border and to "shoot people" if necessary.[3]
In 2019, on the Conservative Commandos radio show, Macgregor said that George Soros was financing the transportation of foreigners to the United States to destroy American culture:

“The largest problem of all is really a network of people like George Soros, who are committed Marxists, who see the destruction of the United States and of Western Europe as a means to an end of creating what they think will be this global society and the planet... Pretty soon, there won’t be very many Americans left inside the United States if they can ship in enough of these foreigners. And of course, the big falsehood is ‘well, they’ll all become Americans. Just give them time.’ We don’t see much evidence for that right now. In fact, we see the opposite. We see hardcore points of foreign culture that is hostile to the United States, hostile to our values, hostile to our way of life forming across the country.
He made similar claims about Soros on Lou Dobbs' Fox show in December 2019.[22] He has described Muslim migrants in Europe as "unwanted invaders", arriving "with the goal of eventually turning Europe into an Islamic state".[34] In April 2021 on Frank Morano's radio show, Macgregor blamed the Democratic Party for immigration:

I think some of you must have seen the thousands of pregnant women coming up from Latin America, so they can have their children here — and then, the child immediately is declared an American citizen. And again, all of this is part of the grand plan. This is what Mr. Biden and his supporters want. They want another country. They don't want the United States.[42]
These views were described by MSNBC, Media Matters for America, The Insider and Newsweek as a version of Great Replacement Theory.[43][44][45][46]

 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
87,264
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When did this happen. One example.

The US doesn't lose wars, they lose interest in wars, that is very different than getting your ass kicked. I don't suppose a hate monger would be able to tell the difference.
Nice way of putting it. The US hasn't lost a war since Georgie Custer went off a joyride in 1876.
 

DinkleMouse

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2022
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Nice way of putting it. The US hasn't lost a war since Georgie Custer went off a joyride in 1876.
Vietnam was 100% a loss. But it was a chance for lessons learned, and lessons were definitely learned. There's a reason Kuwait and Iraq were a no-holds-barred blitz where enemy positions had so much ordinance dropped on them the Iraqi soldiers were stiff as Terra Cotta Warriors and fighting ineffective of shell shock by the time the infantry made it to them.

The US operational art in Vietnam was such a mess. Most of NATO had moved to maneuver by then, but the US was slow to adopt it fully so they were doing this weird mix of maneuver making effective use of motorized and airmobile, but still clinging to limited, creeping war dictated by attrition. In the world of asymmetric warfare, like they had in Vietnam, that just didn't work as well as it did in WWII against an entrenched, conventional military.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
87,264
133,827
113
Vietnam was 100% a loss. But it was a chance for lessons learned, and lessons were definitely learned. There's a reason Kuwait and Iraq were a no-holds-barred blitz where enemy positions had so much ordinance dropped on them the Iraqi soldiers were stiff as Terra Cotta Warriors and fighting ineffective of shell shock by the time the infantry made it to them.

The US operational art in Vietnam was such a mess. Most of NATO had moved to maneuver by then, but the US was slow to adopt it fully so they were doing this weird mix of maneuver making effective use of motorized and airmobile, but still clinging to limited, creeping war dictated by attrition. In the world of asymmetric warfare, like they had in Vietnam, that just didn't work as well as it did in WWII against an entrenched, conventional military.
Actually, I like Doc's turn of phrase. If the US had wanted to blow even more money and political cred on Vietnam, they could be fighting there to this day. And they probably would be, which is why it was so smart to quit and walk away.

Kuwait and both Iraqs were desert blitzes with overwhelming firepower against inferior conventional forces. VN wasn't. You can't do George Patton shit in the middle of a jungle against an enemy which just melts away into the trees when your armour shows up.
 

Adriel

Snatch Stealer
May 10, 2023
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Russia is pronounced in Russian as 'Russeeeeaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhh.......' (falling down a cliff sound) because of this war.

I'll see myself out. :censored:
 
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Addict2sex

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Jan 29, 2017
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Jeffrey Sachs: The Ukraine War Was Provoked - & Why That Matters To Achieve Peace

WEDNESDAY, MAY 24, 2023 - 08:50 PM
Authored by Jeffrey D. Sachs via Consortium News,
George Orwell wrote in 1984 that “Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Governments work relentlessly to distort public perceptions of the past. Regarding the Ukraine War, the Biden administration has repeatedly and falsely claimed that the Ukraine War started with an unprovoked attack by Russia on Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022.
In fact, the war was provoked by the U.S. in ways that leading U.S. diplomats anticipated for decades in the lead-up to the war, meaning that the war could have been avoided and should now be stopped through negotiations.

Recognizing that the war was provoked helps us to understand how to stop it. It doesn’t justify Russia’s invasion. A far better approach for Russia might have been to step up diplomacy with Europe and with the non-Western world to explain and oppose U.S. militarism and unilateralism.


NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, left, and Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kiev, Oct. 31, 2019. (NATO, CC)



In fact, the relentless U.S. push to expand NATO is widely opposed throughout the world, so Russian diplomacy rather than war would likely have been effective.
Two Main Provocations
The Biden team uses the word “unprovoked” incessantly, most recently in Biden’s major speech on the first-year anniversary of the war, in a recent NATO statement, and in the most recent G7 statement.
Mainstream media friendly to Biden simply parrot the White House. The New York Times is the lead culprit, describing the invasion as “unprovoked” no fewer than 26 times, in five editorials, 14 opinion columns by NYT writers, and seven guest op-eds.
There were in fact two main U.S. provocations.
The first was the U.S. intention to expand NATO to Ukraine and Georgia in order to surround Russia in the Black Sea region by NATO countries (Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria Turkey, and Georgia, in counterclockwise order).
The second was the U.S. role in installing a Russophobic regime in Ukraine by the violent overthrow of Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, in February 2014. The shooting war in Ukraine began with Yanukovych’s overthrow nine years ago, not in February 2022 as the U.S. government, NATO, and the G7 leaders would have us believe.
Biden and his foreign policy team refuse to discuss these roots of the war. To recognize them would undermine the administration in three ways.
First, it would expose how the war could have been avoided, or stopped early, sparing Ukraine its current devastation and the U.S. more than $100 billion in outlays to date.
Second, it would expose Biden’s personal role in the war as a participant in the overthrow of Yanukovych, and before that as a staunch backer of the military-industrial complex and very early advocate of NATO enlargement.
Third, it would push Biden to the negotiating table, undermining the administration’s continued push for NATO expansion.
Check the Archives
The archives show irrefutably that the U.S. and German governments repeatedly promised to Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not move “one inch eastward” when the Soviet Union disbanded the Warsaw Pact military alliance.
Nonetheless, U.S. planning for NATO expansion began early in the 1990s, well before Vladimir Putin was Russia’s president. In 1997, national security expert Zbigniew Brzezinski spelled out the NATO expansion timeline with remarkable precision.
U.S. diplomats and Ukraine’s own leaders knew well that NATO enlargement could lead to war. The U.S. scholar-statesman George Kennan called NATO enlargement a “fateful error,” writing in The New York Times that,
“Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking.”


President Bill Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Perry considered resigning in protest against NATO enlargement. In reminiscing about this crucial moment in the mid-1990s, Perry said the following in 2016:
“Our first action that really set us off in a bad direction was when NATO started to expand, bringing in eastern European nations, some of them bordering Russia. At that time, we were working closely with Russia and they were beginning to get used to the idea that NATO could be a friend rather than an enemy … but they were very uncomfortable about having NATO right up on their border and they made a strong appeal for us not to go ahead with that.”
In 1998, William Burns, then the U.S. ambassador to Russia and now the C.I.A. director, sent a cable to Washington warning at length of grave risks of NATO enlargement:
“Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.”
Ukraine’s leaders knew clearly that pressing for NATO enlargement to Ukraine would mean war. Former Zelensky adviser Oleksiy Arestovych declared in a 2019 interview “that our price for joining NATO is a big war with Russia.”
During 2010-2013, Yanukovych pushed neutrality, in line with Ukrainian public opinion. The U.S. worked covertly to overthrow Yanukovych, as captured vividly in the tape of then U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt planning the post-Yanukovych government weeks before the violent overthrow of Yanukovych.
Nuland makes clear on the call that she was coordinating closely with then Vice President Biden and his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, the same Biden-Nuland-Sullivan team now at the center of U.S. policy vis-à-vis Ukraine.

Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Secretary of State Antony Blinken meeting with members of Ukraine’s Rada in Kiev, May 6, 2021. (State Department/Ron Przysucha)

After Yanukovych’s overthrow, the war broke out in the Donbass, while Russia claimed Crimea. The new Ukrainian government appealed for NATO membership, and the U.S. armed and helped restructure the Ukrainian army to make it interoperable with NATO. In 2021, NATO and the Biden administration strongly recommitted to Ukraine’s future in NATO.
In the immediate lead-up to Russia’s invasion, NATO enlargement was center stage. Putin’s draft NATO-Russia Treaty (Dec. 17, 2021) called for a halt to NATO enlargement. Russia’s leaders put NATO enlargement as the cause of war in Russia’s National Security Council meeting on Feb. 21, 2022. In his address to the nation that day, Putin declared NATO enlargement to be a central reason for the invasion.
Historian Geoffrey Roberts recently wrote:
“Could war have been prevented by a Russian-Western deal that halted NATO expansion and neutralised Ukraine in return for solid guarantees of Ukrainian independence and sovereignty? Quite possibly.”
In March 2022, Russia and Ukraine reported progress towards a quick negotiated end to the war based on Ukraine’s neutrality. According to Naftali Bennett, former prime minister of Israel, who was a mediator, an agreement was close to being reached before the U.S., U.K. and France blocked it.
While the Biden administration declares Russia’s invasion to be unprovoked, Russia pursued diplomatic options in 2021 to avoid war, while Biden rejected diplomacy, insisting that Russia had no say whatsoever on the question of NATO enlargement. And Russia pushed diplomacy in March 2022, while the Biden team again blocked a diplomatic end to the war.
By recognizing that the question of NATO enlargement is at the center of this war, we understand why U.S. weaponry will not end this war. Russia will escalate as necessary to prevent NATO enlargement to Ukraine. The key to peace in Ukraine is through negotiations based on Ukraine’s neutrality and NATO non-enlargement.
The Biden administration’s insistence on NATO enlargement to Ukraine has made Ukraine a victim of misconceived and unachievable U.S. military aspirations. It’s time for the provocations to stop, and for negotiations to restore peace to Ukraine.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Want to see how to run a "Special Military Operation"? Check the Liberation of Kuwait. Coalition forces had secured the country and Iraqi forces were in full retreat across the border by D+4.

Or if you wanna get spicy, take the Invasion of Iraq, which lasted barely a month. Sure, they had trouble controlling the populace, but at no point was there any hint they would lose their occupation of every single key area. The Battle of Baghdad took 6 days.

In fact, it took exactly the same number of days for the Coalition to go from stepping across the border to securing the capital as it took for Russia to step across the border and pull all troops back from their failed attempt to take the capital. 1 month, 1 week, 4 days.

It's like people who joke about how the French always retreat.... You immediately know they have never cracked a textbook and have no knowledge of the subject.
Special military operations or non consensual live fire exercises, next on Gerardo.

Sure if you go back 200 years* the French were stronk, but that's no fun. A lot more fun making fun of cheese eating surrender monkeys.


*yea yea Crimea and colonial actions but still.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
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McGregor is a neo fascist shit-weasel.
How many times have you taken the effort to look up his sources to point out they are either wackjobs, have a history of being extremely wrong on the topic or both.
Has he ever once retracted a statement because of this.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
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Nice way of putting it. The US hasn't lost a war since Georgie Custer went off a joyride in 1876.
They lost the battle, they won the war. The Americans have lost many battles.

Also, I read it on some youtube comment. I sadly don't have an original source if one exists. But it ain't mine.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Vietnam was 100% a loss. But it was a chance for lessons learned, and lessons were definitely learned. There's a reason Kuwait and Iraq were a no-holds-barred blitz where enemy positions had so much ordinance dropped on them the Iraqi soldiers were stiff as Terra Cotta Warriors and fighting ineffective of shell shock by the time the infantry made it to them.

The US operational art in Vietnam was such a mess. Most of NATO had moved to maneuver by then, but the US was slow to adopt it fully so they were doing this weird mix of maneuver making effective use of motorized and airmobile, but still clinging to limited, creeping war dictated by attrition. In the world of asymmetric warfare, like they had in Vietnam, that just didn't work as well as it did in WWII against an entrenched, conventional military.
The Americans crushed the VC, secured much of the country signed a treaty with North Vietnam and went home. NV then figured they would try their luck and by then the Americans lost interest. It wasn't guys in slippers and PJs that went into Saigon, most of those were dead, it was NVA tanks. They had their victory but couldn't be bothered to make it stick.

Tet went so badly for the VC that some thought it was a North Vietnam plot to get rid of potential trouble makers.

Although I would agree if someone was to wonder if the Americans had put on of McNamara's Morons in charge at times
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
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One of the Russian pro war Milbloggers was saying out of 50K convicts, 10K were claimed dead, 26K were sent home, which leaves 14K unaccounted for. He assumes most of those are dead also, maybe another 10K [maybe they had not done their 6 months but I guess the mill blogger would know if they had or had not.

20K among the criminals, and if he understated that, another 20K among the professionals, plus whatever the Russians lost.
 
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