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Justin was right after all

DinkleMouse

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Um. What are all these intelligence reports but in fact investigations? They HAVE THE INFORMATION. Why do they need another political hack to look at it?

Release the information.
So you said you wanted Trudeau to start an investigation, but now you say you don't need an investigation. Just as I said: moving the goalposts.

We don't know what content the report has. It may justify an investigation. And despite your claim that the report should be made public, I will again direct you to the Security of Information Act (which replaced the Official Secrets Act and is still commonly called that).

As I said, you clearly have an axe to grind and no doubt any politician named you would immediately call to resign regardless of what the report or an investigation concludes, which is exactly why I don't think the report should be made public. The public should not be empowered to be judge and jury.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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So you said you wanted Trudeau to start an investigation, but now you say you don't need an investigation. Just as I said: moving the goalposts.

We don't know what content the report has. It may justify an investigation. And despite your claim that the report should be made public, I will again direct you to the Security of Information Act (which replaced the Official Secrets Act and is still commonly called that).

As I said, you clearly have an axe to grind and no doubt any politician named you would immediately call to resign regardless of what the report or an investigation concludes, which is exactly why I don't think the report should be made public. The public should not be empowered to be judge and jury.
I said I want a PUBLIC inquiry, now that its been released. You see the problem is really that Trudeau didn't take it serioysly, which resulted in money being funneled. The public has a right to know WHO.

And the PUBLIC IS THE JURY. That the fucking basis of a democracy. We are the bosses. We get the information. We decide through both elections and protest and pressure whether they stay in.

Cripes sakes, you don't let the criminals run the courtroom.
 

DinkleMouse

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I said I want a PUBLIC inquiry, now that its been released. You see the problem is really that Trudeau didn't take it serioysly, which resulted in money being funneled.
Do you didn't. You said, "Shut down the fake police stations. Deport people traced to on Canadain soil espionage activities. Hire hackers to actively go after overseas posting farms. Build laws on social media sites to drmand info on foreign actors. Look into foreign donations." That last one is what they're doing. You didn't say make it public.

The public has a right to know WHO.
The public has a right to know WHO if it happened. What is what the investigation is to look into.

And the PUBLIC IS THE JURY. That the fucking basis of a democracy.
The public get to determine guilt or innocence in the absence of an investigation to uncover data? Bullshit. Clearly you want the name so you can condemn these people, whether it was true or not.

We are the bosses. We get the information. We decide through both elections and protest and pressure whether they stay in.
Clearly your opinion is wrong. Because all these things that you say happen are not happening.

Cripes sakes, you don't let the criminals run the courtroom.
Nor do you let the court of public opinion determine guilt or innocence before investigations are even conducted and evidence presented.
 

Butler1000

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Do you didn't. You said, "Shut down the fake police stations. Deport people traced to on Canadain soil espionage activities. Hire hackers to actively go after overseas posting farms. Build laws on social media sites to drmand info on foreign actors. Look into foreign donations." That last one is what they're doing. You didn't say make it public.



The public has a right to know WHO if it happened. What is what the investigation is to look into.



The public get to determine guilt or innocence in the absence of an investigation to uncover data? Bullshit. Clearly you want the name so you can condemn these people, whether it was true or not.



Clearly your opinion is wrong. Because all these things that you say happen are not happening.



Nor do you let the court of public opinion determine guilt or innocence before investigations are even conducted and evidence presented.
Dude. The investigation is DONE. Thats what the two intelligence agencies did. And reported it to the government. Twice. Who ignored it.

The purpose of a public inquiry isn't to determine if the PRC interfered. They did. Or if they gave money to candidates. They did.

The purpose is to determine WHY TRUDEAU IGNORED IT. And to inform the public who got the money.

Any call for another "investigation" is a smoke screen to buy time and bury evidence imo, under the guise of "national security". Which is bullshit. There can never be secrecy about election tampering. Ever.

Why would you want that?
 

Butler1000

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Well then you came up with your two cents about the CBC that had nothing to do with the topic. You scored an own goal!!
Really? ITS THE CBC OUTING THE GOVERNMENT. He questioned whether they are wrong. So Bver, is the CBC wrong to report on this?
 

DinkleMouse

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Dude. The investigation is DONE. Thats what the two intelligence agencies did. And reported it to the government. Twice. Who ignored it.
So it's a final or analysis report and not a preliminary? I'd love to know how you reached that conclusion. Have you seen the report? Because you quote CBC as a source Ave they have made it very clear that gave not confirmed it seen the report the Global News is citing.

The purpose of a public inquiry isn't to determine if the PRC interfered. They did. Or if they gave money to candidates. They did.
How do you know these are facts? Again, have you seen this report? How do you know what it contains?

The purpose is to determine WHY TRUDEAU IGNORED IT. And to inform the public who got the money.
Why Trudeau ignored it won't be in the report. That would be determined by an investigation. So else it won't answer that. As to who got money, in sure that will be revealed after the investigation is complete once they confirm who recieved money.

Any call for another "investigation" is a smoke screen to buy time and bury evidence imo, under the guise of "national security". Which is bullshit. There can never be secrecy about election tampering. Ever.
The report in question may contain other information critical to the security of the state. It may contain names of Canadian operatives, or information We don't know because, again, we haven't seen it. Unless you answer that your face to the questions above, in which case I'd love to know why you don't just leak the information if you're that sure if it.

And why do you say "another" investigation? If this is a preliminary report, there may have been no analysis. What if the CSE intercepted a phone call between a Chinese official and the Chinese Embassy and this is a preliminary report on that which has not been validated by multiple sources and other agencies, like CSIS, couldn't corroborate it? What is it's a counter-intelligence operation by MSS precisely designed to undermine and interfere with Canadian elections by getting people like you all wound up and eager to crucify any politician that is named?

Of course, this may be an analysis or final report, and it may paint a very damning picture. It also may contain no Official Secrets and be sanitized for release. We don't know. You're demands ignore that there are cases that perhaps we need an investigation or it can't be released, whereas I have no doubt an investigation into it will ensure any relevant information does come out eventually, because our opposition government will ensure there are answers. We have a very healthy representative democracy in Canada, despite what the "I have no rights anymore!" crowd will tell you. I do not doubt that if there are improprieties, other parties will ensure it gets out.

But again, you seem hell-bent on wanting to make sure certain people are condemned for actions that, as far as your and I actually know for a fact, may not have ever occurred. So I'll deflect your own question back at you: why would you want that?

Why would you want that?
Same reason I don't decide anyone accused or suspected of a crime is guilty until the facts come out: it's unfair to condemn people on suspicion or incomplete information.[/QUOTE]
 

DinkleMouse

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Really? ITS THE CBC OUTING THE GOVERNMENT. He questioned whether they are wrong. So Bver, is the CBC wrong to report on this?
Actually, the CBC is citing Global News and saying that they haven't seen the document and can't confirm it.

Example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-mpp-vincent-ke-resigns-1.6775829

>Quoting unnamed intelligence sources, Global News alleged Ke "served as a financial intermediary" in interference schemes by the Chinese Communist Party that were described in two Privy Council Office intelligence reports, which the media outlet had reviewed.

>CBC News has not independently confirmed the allegations.
 
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bver_hunter

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Really? ITS THE CBC OUTING THE GOVERNMENT. He questioned whether they are wrong. So Bver, is the CBC wrong to report on this?
When the CBC poses cutting edge questions to all parties including the opposition leader like Pee Poilievre, why the hell then does he call them "biased". Especially, as you are stating that they are now "Outing the Government". I, in no way have stated that the CBC are wrong in disclosing anything, or show me where I did so? Only you seem to object when the Conservatives are also involved in the mix!!
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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So it's a final or analysis report and not a preliminary? I'd love to know how you reached that conclusion. Have you seen the report? Because you quote CBC as a source Ave they have made it very clear that gave not confirmed it seen the report the Global News is citing.



How do you know these are facts? Again, have you seen this report? How do you know what it contains?



Why Trudeau ignored it won't be in the report. That would be determined by an investigation. So else it won't answer that. As to who got money, in sure that will be revealed after the investigation is complete once they confirm who recieved money.



The report in question may contain other information critical to the security of the state. It may contain names of Canadian operatives, or information We don't know because, again, we haven't seen it. Unless you answer that your face to the questions above, in which case I'd love to know why you don't just leak the information if you're that sure if it.

And why do you say "another" investigation? If this is a preliminary report, there may have been no analysis. What if the CSE intercepted a phone call between a Chinese official and the Chinese Embassy and this is a preliminary report on that which has not been validated by multiple sources and other agencies, like CSIS, couldn't corroborate it? What is it's a counter-intelligence operation by MSS precisely designed to undermine and interfere with Canadian elections by getting people like you all wound up and eager to crucify any politician that is named?

Of course, this may be an analysis or final report, and it may paint a very damning picture. It also may contain no Official Secrets and be sanitized for release. We don't know. You're demands ignore that there are cases that perhaps we need an investigation or it can't be released, whereas I have no doubt an investigation into it will ensure any relevant information does come out eventually, because our opposition government will ensure there are answers. We have a very healthy representative democracy in Canada, despite what the "I have no rights anymore!" crowd will tell you. I do not doubt that if there are improprieties, other parties will ensure it gets out.

But again, you seem hell-bent on wanting to make sure certain people are condemned for actions that, as far as your and I actually know for a fact, may not have ever occurred. So I'll deflect your own question back at you: why would you want that?



Same reason I don't decide anyone accused or suspected of a crime is guilty until the facts come out: it's unfair to condemn people on suspicion or incomplete information.
[/QUOTE]

Do you really think all this came out without a ton of proof that the government is trying to hide? Hence the leak. To apply pressure. And it's working.
 

Butler1000

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When the CBC poses cutting edge questions to all parties including the opposition leader like Pee Poilievre, why the hell then does he call them "biased". Especially, as you are stating that they are now "Outing the Government". I, in no way have stated that the CBC are wrong in disclosing anything, or show me where I did so? Only you seem to object when the Conservatives are also involved in the mix!!
So obtuse
 

DinkleMouse

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Jan 15, 2022
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Do you really think all this came out without a ton of proof that the government is trying to hide? Hence the leak. To apply pressure. And it's working.
If it's a final report, why hasn't Global News leaked out? I believe Global News has seen a report. But I have no reason to assume it can't be a preliminary report. And a preliminary report would be newsworthy. But that doesn't mean it's final or should be released.

Your logic that there must be something to it applies in reverse: if they aren't releasing it than it must not be final and conclusive.

You're grasping at straws because you clearly want to push your agenda of condemning anyone with suspected ties to China regardless of reality.

I'll wait for the investigation, thanks. Because I know the Opposition will not let this be buried. And your demand you are entitled to know doesn't change the fact that anyone like me, who is a veteran that understands National Security issues and/or has experience in military intelligence, will tell you that you're desire to crucify people doesn't overrule the Official Secrets Act.
 
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JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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If it's a final report, why hasn't Global News leaked out? I believe Global News has seen a report. But I have no reason to assume it can't be a preliminary report. And a preliminary report would be newsworthy. But that doesn't mean it's final or should be released.

Your logic that there must be something to it applies in reverse: if they aren't releasing it than it must not be final and conclusive.

You're grasping at straws because you clearly want to push your agenda of condemning anyone with suspected ties to China regardless of reality.

I'll wait for the investigation, thanks. Because I know the Opposition will not let this be buried. And your demand you are entitled to know doesn't change the fact that anyone like me, who is a veteran that understands National Security issues and/or has experience in military intelligence, will tell you that you're desire to crucify people doesn't overrule the Official Secrets Act.

you are asking why a media firm will not release a report that you are unsure even exists

the bigger question is why Justin Trudeau placed a higher priority on persecuting the whistle blower over calling a public enquiry ?
why does he refuse to do the right thing and assure Canadians our elections have integrity ?

the Justin Trudeau scandals just continue to pile up and will not stop as he is stupid and corrupt
he needs a different occupation
 
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Frankfooter

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If it's a final report, why hasn't Global News leaked out? I believe Global News has seen a report. But I have no reason to assume it can't be a preliminary report. And a preliminary report would be newsworthy. But that doesn't mean it's final or should be released.

Your logic that there must be something to it applies in reverse: if they aren't releasing it than it must not be final and conclusive.

You're grasping at straws because you clearly want to push your agenda of condemning anyone with suspected ties to China regardless of reality.

I'll wait for the investigation, thanks. Because I know the Opposition will not let this be buried. And your demand you are entitled to know doesn't change the fact that anyone like me, who is a veteran that understands National Security issues and/or has experience in military intelligence, will tell you that you're desire to crucify people doesn't overrule the Official Secrets Act.
Global is reporting that they saw an unredacted copy, which means that someone in the government leaked it to them.
CBC just had an interview with a conservative who had run previous reports and said that it has to remain secret and that the committee members are heavily checked to make sure nothing gets out.
These are bipartisan reports but sensitive.
 

DinkleMouse

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It’s all fine and dandy until it happens to you and it will happen to every single one of one day. Trudeau was hiding out just as much as ford was. They’re both pussies and don’t know how to deal with dissenting opinion. Conservatives being compared to a group of people that committed genocide in world war 2 is deeply offensive.
You're talking about the convoy protests? Because they were comparing the Liberal government to a group of people that committed genocide in WWII, which is also deeply offensive. I will say, though, it's interesting how so many Conservatives, who for years ranted about how "snowflakes" are always playing the "victim" card, are now constantly playing the victim card.

How come no one wants to talk about the Chinese influence in our political system? Instead, we want to argue over some bullshit protesters whom overstayed their welcome but only did so because the PM called us racist and misogynistic.
No one wants to talk about it? It's been front page news for days and there's been plenty of people discussing it here. What kind of Tucker Carlson gaslighting nonsense are you trying to pull here?
 

jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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So far the one with real ties to China and in the Election interference is this Ontario PC Vincent Ke, who had to resign:

Toronto MPP steps down from Ontario PC caucus amid allegations

ROTFLMFAO!!! This is the clearest confirmation of the Chinese involvement in subverting our elections. You think that you're scoring some kind of a political point, but, since Ontario is part of Canada, you've just offered 100% proof that the story is real -Justin colluded with a foreign power and that's why he's stonewalling. Thanks!
 
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