Dr. Birx now says it was likely a lab leak

[lomotil]

You are under the false impression that CJD did not transfer from farm animals to humans.

Alberta beef is free of prions currently, but is not nearly as marbled as it once was and lacks taste.
Was the Calgary Stampede closed in 2020 to avoid zoonotic transfer or was it closed due to the Covid-19 pandemic resulting from an accidental lab leak in Wuhan ?

 

[basketcase]

The previous and present actions of the PRC regarding Covid-19 and ample circumstantial enforce that a Wuhan lab leak occurred....

I guess you never took a course in logic.

China's hiding of information is evidence that they hate international embarrassment. That has been part of Chinese culture for millennia.

You have already admitted that there is nothing that can change your mind so you can continue barking at the moon. In the meantime, the scientific world sees a zoonotic outbreak in a market that contained species that have been known to carry covid as more likely than the virus leaking from the lab and travelling halfway across the city before an outbreak occurred.

And you really are in Q-anon territory if you give any credence to the lab manipulating the covid virus when every study around the world has found nothing in the genome to support that.

 

[basketcase]

Mad Cow Disease had the first case in North America, yes in Alberta but this prion infection did not originate from nor escape from Canadian cattle, a Canadian lab, nor cause a global pandemic . No Alberta lab workers become suspiciously ill, no physicians were murdered or silenced that I know of, but who knows lol. Mad Cow Disease can only be spread human to human by eating another person’s brain as Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease so it is not really a problem for most of mankind as cannibalism is rare currently, so this contagion is not a threat to go viral as the aerosol Covid-19 has done.
Canada does not permit wet markets which is a restriction that some might find…somewhat evil …deliberate and totalitarian.
Maybe in your mind Mad Cow Disease and Covid-19 might be comparable for a sarcastic analogy lol.

And by the way, do you know why two Wuhan Virological Centre scientists, a husband and wife team who were temporarily working in a Winnipeg lab were had to be escorted out of the lab and out of Canada in August 2019 ?

Right. Canada immediately ordered the farmers to kill their cattle, sterilize their farms, and not reopen until they had new stock. What China did was very different. They had all the animals in the market killed off and the market sterilized before letting it reopen. Completely different.

 

[basketcase]

Robert Pickton, a BC pig farmer was convicted of luring women to his farm, killing them and feeding their remains to pigs which he made into sausages and then sold them in grocery stores in the lower mainland. The sausages where abruptly pulled from the shelves and not found to contain any prions but evidence of human DNA. No cases of Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease were detected.
No pandemic and no cover up resulted as with Covid-19 which most likely accidentally escaped from the lab in Wuhan which has severely damaged the world in infinite ways.

????

Wow this is stupid.

 

[lomotil]

????

Wow this is stupid.

If Covid-19 did in fact escape from the Wuhan lab, there would have been asymptotic transfer to the Wuhan population by lab workers in the early stages of Wuhans catastrophe as well as from symptomatic transfer from obviously ill lab workers. There was not tests available in the early stages and cover ups, mendacity and obfuscation was already happening.
The asymptomatic lab workers probably infected the wet market workers as well as the general population.in the early stages.
The zoonotic transfer theory is unlikely because Covid-19 was strangely too ”human friendly “ for a nouvel contagion meaning that it most probably had been deliberately interacted in the lab with human cells for the purpose of scientific research resulting in our current misadventure.
I would say that the egregious actions of the PRC and their WHO in this pandemic do not justify the desire to avoid embarrassment at all costs. What a cost to humanity!!. They are not fooling anyone, nor is the zoonotic cabal that even the PRC rejects.

The previous post which you called “stupid” was in response to satire from another poster.

 

[lomotil]

I guess you never took a course in logic.

China's hiding of information is evidence that they hate international embarrassment. That has been part of Chinese culture for millennia.

You have already admitted that there is nothing that can change your mind so you can continue barking at the moon. In the meantime, the scientific world sees a zoonotic outbreak in a market that contained species that have been known to carry covid as more likely than the virus leaking from the lab and travelling halfway across the city before an outbreak occurred.

And you really are in Q-anon territory if you give any credence to the lab manipulating the covid virus when every study around the world has found nothing in the genome to support that.

I took a course in symbolic logic actually which is seriously augmented in usefulness and practicality when used with common sense.

The information censored and destroyed by the Wuhan Lab might change my mind, who knows. You are ignoring the now evident characteristic of Covid-19 associated with asymptomatic transfer. Infected lab workers who were without symptoms likely transmitted the virus all over Wuhan including the wet market workers in a scenario more plausible and possible than zoonotic transfer.

Are you condoning the PRC lying and cover up for what you purport to be for reasons of culture to avoid international embarrassment to “save face” ? What would they have to lie about and hide if they have been supposedly exonerated by “zoonotic transfer “ ? The reality is that the PRC is part of the rest of the world and catastrophe like the Covid-19 pandemic affect us all. Fuck pride and survey the horrendous carnage now before us.

 

[Valcazar]

Certainly if the international community including the PRC actually bought the zoonotic transfer theory as the cause of Covid-19, then it follows that the wet markets would be closed permanently to mitigate the risk of another Coronavirus fueled pandemic don‘t you think ?

No.
First of all, the PRC doesn't think it came from zoonotic transfer there - they think it was imported from Canada or the US.
Secondly, diseases get transferred via markets and farms and no one has ever permanently shut those things down.

 

[Valcazar]

The zoonotic transfer theory is unlikely because Covid-19 was strangely too ”human friendly “ for a nouvel contagion meaning that it most probably had been deliberately interacted in the lab with human cells for the purpose of scientific research resulting in our current misadventure.

This is wrong, though.
The fact that it has been consistently evolving to be better at human transmission is an indication of how non-optimized it was for that when it started.

 

[lomotil]

This is wrong, though.
The fact that it has been consistently evolving to be better at human transmission is an indication of how non-optimized it was for that when it started.

No you are incorrect as viruses are expected to mutate as we are clearly seeing Covid-19 as they travel from host to host irregardless of their strain when they were first detected. The increased efficiency of transmission that is being seen now with Covid-19 variants has nothing to do how well the virus that somehow escaped from the Wuhan lab was optimized or non optomized for human transmission.

 

[lomotil]

No.
First of all, the PRC doesn't think it came from zoonotic transfer there - they think it was imported from Canada or the US.
Secondly, diseases get transferred via markets and farms and no one has ever permanently shut those things down.

The PRC is well aware that the virus didn’t come from zoonotic transfer which is why they risked re-opening the wet markets.
The PRC knows that the virus likely inadvertently escaped from the Wuhan lab and orchestrated a panicked cover up.
Their propaganda machine is suggesting the US or Canada leak to save face, even recently stating that Omicron arrived in China through postage and parcels from Canada.

 

[basketcase]

I took a course in symbolic logic actually which is seriously augmented in usefulness and practicality when used with common sense.
...

Yet you so easily buy into conspiracy thinking instead of relying on actual evidence.

 

[basketcase]

If Covid-19 did in fact escape from the Wuhan lab, t...

And what does any of that have to do with a serial killer burying dead prostitutes?

Canada's actions to stop the spread of CJD is the exact same as China with covid. The only major difference is that covid is a respiratory infection while CJD isn't.


Everything else you are posting is just ramblings from someone who's made up their mind and doesn't want any evidence that interferes with their preconceptions. The only reasonable thing you posted is that China is focussed on saving face as their culture has felt important for millennia.


p.s. At least in this post you put the word "if".

 

[basketcase]

No you are incorrect as viruses are expected to mutate as we are clearly seeing Covid-19 as they travel from host to host irregardless of their strain when they were first detected. The increased efficiency of transmission that is being seen now with Covid-19 variants has nothing to do how well the virus that somehow escaped from the Wuhan lab was optimized or non optomized for human transmission.

Sorry but if you actually looked at the academic work, ( I know, you'll just claim it's all a Chinese conspiracy) it is clear that a) there is no evidence of manipulation, and b) there are far more useful things that would have been manipulated if the intent was a pandemic.

 

[Valcazar]

No you are incorrect as viruses are expected to mutate as we are clearly seeing Covid-19 as they travel from host to host irregardless of their strain when they were first detected. The increased efficiency of transmission that is being seen now with Covid-19 variants has nothing to do how well the virus that somehow escaped from the Wuhan lab was optimized or non optomized for human transmission.

Sure it does.

The PRC is well aware that the virus didn’t come from zoonotic transfer which is why they risked re-opening the wet markets.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

The PRC knows that the virus likely inadvertently escaped from the Wuhan lab and orchestrated a panicked cover up.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Their propaganda machine is suggesting the US or Canada leak to save face, even recently stating that Omicron arrived in China through postage and parcels from Canada.

We agree. Although not just to save face, but to just use as general propaganda as well.

 

[lomotil]

Sorry but if you actually looked at the academic work, ( I know, you'll just claim it's all a Chinese conspiracy) it is clear that a) there is no evidence of manipulation, and b) there are far more useful things that would have been manipulated if the intent was a pandemic.

I do not believe that the renowned and storied Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), a epicentre for Coronavirus research, with many international collaborations, intentionally created Covid-19 to cause this pandemic. However the Wuhan lab was successful in combining a bat coronavirus with SARS in 2015 and were able to infect human cells, a successful
“manipulation “. This hybrid had been able to grow in lab mice and simulate human disease according to the WIV published papers. You are wrong when you say that there was no evidence of manipulation, as there is ample evidence of it in the name of scientific research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993

Butler, Declan (12 November 2015). "Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research". Nature. doi:10.1038/nature.2015.18787.

On going Coronavirus research was still happening at WIV at the time of the November 2019 outbreak in Wuhan with other international labs including the National Institute of Microbiology in Winnipeg where coincidentally two visiting Wuhan scientist where escorted out of the lab and Canada in August 2019 for classified reasons. And with all of this background, you still want to believe that Covid-19 didn’t come from a lab leak, but from a wet market just down the street in one hell of a tragic coincidence. The data to show zoonotic transfer for this pandemic has been necessarily corrupted and destroyed. Covid-19 is anything but “ nouvel’

Again, the PRC knows, as other world governments known that zoonotic transfer didn’t likely occur, that an unintentional WIV lab leaked is the cause of this pandemic. The PRC to “save face “ blames foreign actors for the deliberate creation of Covid-19 and is confident that zoonotic transfer did not occur otherwise they would have aggressively and forcefully outlawed the thousands of wet markets across China as risking another Covid-19 scenario would be insane. The PRC‘s actions continue to suggest an ongoing cover up.
No compensation or admission from the PRC will likely ever come, those associated with the Wuhan lab or Wuhan hospitals known that they or their families would be killed or tortured if they dared to speak about anything contrary to the PRC‘s edicts.

The global scientific community, through government pressure necessarily supports zoonotic transfer to avoid trade wars and antagonistic confrontation with the world’s second largest economy and chief global supply chain powerhouse as the economic damage has been overwhelming.

Unfortunately, history repeat itself, more contagions will come from China, and the PRC will become further empowered and emboldened to blame others.

 

[Valcazar]

That work had been done on a completely different virus "proves" that work was done on this one?

 

[basketcase]

I do not believe that the renowned and storied Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), a epicentre for Coronavirus research, with many international collaborations, intentionally created Covid-19 to cause this pandemic. However the Wuhan lab was successful in combining a bat coronavirus with SARS in 2015 and were able to infect human cells, a successful
“manipulation “. This hybrid had been able to grow in lab mice and simulate human disease according to the WIV published papers. You are wrong when you say that there was no evidence of manipulation, as there is ample evidence of it in the name of scientific research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993

Butler, Declan (12 November 2015). "Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research". Nature. doi:10.1038/nature.2015.18787.

On going Coronavirus research was still happening at WIV at the time of the November 2019 outbreak in Wuhan with other international labs including the National Institute of Microbiology in Winnipeg where coincidentally two visiting Wuhan scientist where escorted out of the lab and Canada in August 2019 for classified reasons. And with all of this background, you still want to believe that Covid-19 didn’t come from a lab leak, but from a wet market just down the street in one hell of a tragic coincidence. The data to show zoonotic transfer for this pandemic has been necessarily corrupted and destroyed. Covid-19 is anything but “ nouvel’

Again, the PRC knows, as other world governments known that zoonotic transfer didn’t likely occur, that an unintentional WIV lab leaked is the cause of this pandemic. The PRC to “save face “ blames foreign actors for the deliberate creation of Covid-19 and is confident that zoonotic transfer did not occur otherwise they would have aggressively and forcefully outlawed the thousands of wet markets across China as risking another Covid-19 scenario would be insane. The PRC‘s actions continue to suggest an ongoing cover up.
No compensation or admission from the PRC will likely ever come, those associated with the Wuhan lab or Wuhan hospitals known that they or their families would be killed or tortured if they dared to speak about anything contrary to the PRC‘s edicts.

The global scientific community, through government pressure necessarily supports zoonotic transfer to avoid trade wars and antagonistic confrontation with the world’s second largest economy and chief global supply chain powerhouse as the economic damage has been overwhelming.

Unfortunately, history repeat itself, more contagions will come from China, and the PRC will become further empowered and emboldened to blame others.

Typical conspiracy ramblings, especially the way you pretend that the Winnipeg thing has any significance to covid outside of what's posted on 8-chan.

You should also read that study because I don't think it means what you think it means. Most significantly, the genome of the study you mention (and poorly characterize) is different from the genome of the SARS-CoV2 virus. Or maybe you think that after doing this study, they secretly did the same thing with a completely different methodology.

Again, the PRC knows, as other world governments known that zoonotic transfer didn’t likely occur,

At least you've given up the pretence and have simply gone to tinfoil land.

 

[lomotil]

That work had been done on a completely different virus "proves" that work was done on this one?

No, I did not say that the research publication from 2015 proves that the WIV created Covid-19, but it illustrates that they have a very recent history of infecting human cells with hybrids of SARS and Coronaviridae and ongoing similar research right up until the 2019 pandemic. It is naive to expect that the WIV through the PRC would have allowed any incriminating evidence to not have been destroyed.
The kind of research done at WIV has a much greater probability of creating Covid-19 and having this virus escape accidentally from their lab than zoonotic transfer in the Wuhan wet market just down the street and strangely not in any of the thousands upon thousands of wet markets in cities and towns with no labs that are working on Coronavirus research across China.

And are you doubting the veracity of the PRC claim that no zoonotic transfer occurred in their wet markets? They should know and their actions of re-opening the wet markets confirms their confidence and comfort levels, even as the pandemic still rages.
The PRC‘s “Zero Covid Policy” doesn’t seem to be too concerned about zoonotic transfer does it?

 

[lomotil]

Typical conspiracy ramblings, especially the way you pretend that the Winnipeg thing has any significance to covid outside of what's posted on 8-chan.

You should also read that study because I don't think it means what you think it means. Most significantly, the genome of the study you mention (and poorly characterize) is different from the genome of the SARS-CoV2 virus. Or maybe you think that after doing this study, they secretly did the same thing with a completely different methodology.


At least you've given up the pretence and have simply gone to tinfoil land.

The circumstance around the outbreak of Covid-19 are atypical are they not ? You conveniently ignore inconvenient truths and only reference the skewed and biased scientific data supporting zoonotic transfer, which is the politically correct, current flavour of the month thing to do for many whilst ignoring many inconvenient truths.

Perhaps one day, a member (s) of the WIV research team or or even a fellow international research collaborator will come clean and shed some light on what was really going on at the WIV before the pandemic occurred.

And why do you think the Wuhan scientific couple was escorted abruptly out of Winnipeg in August 2019, just a few months before the outbreak in Wuhan? I didn’t say that that their ejection was a conspiracy, just a curiosity and a remarkable coincidence. Also to suggest that the PRC rejects the so called “scientific argument” for zoonotic transfer in the Wuhan wet market merely just to “safe face” is somewhat disingenuous.

No tin foil hat here at all, lots of intrigue and high stakes cover ups, enough to make the research proclaiming that zoonotic transfer is the answer to be far from the gold standard and not even gold leaf so it is no wonder that the US government under Biden and other governments including the UK have reason to further study the lab leak likelyhood.

The group that necessarily knows the most about the creation of Covid-19 genome is still the PRC and their actions, past and present support this.

 

[Valcazar]

No, I did not say that the research publication from 2015 proves that the WIV created Covid-19, but it illustrates that they have a very recent history of infecting human cells with hybrids of SARS and Coronaviridae and ongoing similar research right up until the 2019 pandemic. It is naive to expect that the WIV through the PRC would have allowed any incriminating evidence to not have been destroyed.

But "there is evidence that has been destroyed that proves I'm right" is a non-falsifiable claim and should be treated with exactly the lack of weight such a claim deserves.

You seem stuck on the idea that because something might have happened, that means it did happen.

The kind of research done at WIV has a much greater probability of creating Covid-19 and having this virus escape accidentally from their lab than zoonotic transfer in the Wuhan wet market just down the street and strangely not in any of the thousands upon thousands of wet markets in cities and towns with no labs that are working on Coronavirus research across China.

That you firmly believe this doesn't make it true.

And are you doubting the veracity of the PRC claim that no zoonotic transfer occurred in their wet markets?

Very much so since there are numerous lines of evidence that support the idea it did.

But you are right, the PRC and you may be right and it didn't occur through zoonotic transfer.
If evidence starts to accumulate in support of that position, I will change my mind.

Perhaps one day, a member (s) of the WIV research team or or even a fellow international research collaborator will come clean and shed some light on what was really going on at the WIV before the pandemic occurred.

And if that happened, that would be significant evidence in favor of one story or another, wouldn't it?

And why do you think the Wuhan scientific couple was escorted abruptly out of Winnipeg in August 2019, just a few months before the outbreak in Wuhan? I didn’t say that that their ejection was a conspiracy, just a curiosity and a remarkable coincidence.

If you are so interested, have you considered looking into it?
Sometimes looking for answers when one has a question helps.

Also to suggest that the PRC rejects the so called “scientific argument” for zoonotic transfer in the Wuhan wet market merely just to “safe face” is somewhat disingenuous.

Why?
They got blamed extensively for not reacting to SARS-CoV-1 fast enough and well enough.
They, like all authoritarian regimes, have a tendency to view anything they aren't in control of as a threat to their illusion of control.
Denying they fucked up in containing it seems very on brand for them, especially when they can blame the West.

No tin foil hat here at all, lots of intrigue and high stakes cover ups, enough to make the research proclaiming that zoonotic transfer is the answer to be far from the gold standard and not even gold leaf so it is no wonder that the US government under Biden and other governments including the UK have reason to further study the lab leak likelyhood.

I thought you said you were against people trying to determine the origin because they would never be able to so people should just move on?