Zelensky condemns NATO leaders (and I agree with him)

[Valcazar]

Zelensky has agency and he feels a no-fly zone is going to help him. He doesn't care about NATO's larger strategic issues when he is in a crisis and that's understandable.
The US is an extremely militaristic society and now that the GOP has mostly decided the "Putin is the good guy" narrative isn't going to fly, they are switching to the "Biden is too weak and we should attack" narrative that - sadly - works very well in the US. (Look at the piece RAIN posted.)

The whole thing is a shit show and real life is incredibly complicated. There are people who support Mearsheimer 's narrative that this is all due to not letting Ukraine keep its nuclear weapons and expanding NATO and so are advocating for more countries to have nuclear weapons. There are others who are pushing "missile defense" like the old days of Star Wars and pretending that "missile defense" isn't considered an explicitly aggressive move by other nuclear powers. Some want a straight up return to the mid-20th century and think we should hand back most of Eastern Europe to Putin. Others think Putin is weak in this moment but will always be insecure because he is weak and so the US and Europe should destroy Russia and invade it now, giving the eastern half to the Chinese.

People are going to say lots of crazy shit because when things get chaotic everyone who doesn't like the current system starts thinking that maybe they can avoid the long, hard work of changing the system carefully and just blow shit up and get what they want in the aftermath.

 

[basketcase]

Yes, and it is exactly what is wrong with NATO: they are weak and are not willing to fight....

So committing Canadian soldiers is the only other option rather than letting Putin have his way? Thankfully the adults have decided to try sanctions and talks before risking a conflict that could spill over into nukes.

 

[basketcase]

Putin wants the Donbas region and a security guarantee that Ukraine won't join NATO. He has no designs on expanding westward. He doesn't have any interest in occupying Ukraine because he knows his military does not have the logistical capacity to do so. That has become very apparent over the course of the invasion so far.

Yet his 'peacekeepers' could have accomplished that goal. Instead he went all out including shelling s nuclear plant.

 

[bver_hunter]

Anyone crowing about implementing a no fly zone in Ukraine is of course not living in reality of the scale of a nuclear war. Remember when John Kennedy warned the Russians about arming Cuba and the possibility of a war at that time. The Soviet Union immediately complied.

Can you imagine the catastrophe if Russian Jets flying over Ukraine are taken down by NATO? Implementing a No Fly Zone, means that you have to control the ground otherwise how can it be implemented? Putin's aim is not only to conquer the Donbas region, but to install a Puppet Government in Ukraine. Also, the next country to be invaded by the Russians will very likely be Moldova. They are not part of NATO!!

 

[fall]

The true test of NATO will come when Putin invades Poland.

That would invoke Article 5, "you attack one of us, you attack all of us".

I don't think NATO would let that slide. It remains to be seen whether or not Putin wants to test NATO's resolve.

I think, NATO will give Poland to Putin to avoid nuclear conflict and to continue getting oil and gas. When USSR was dissolved ad Ukraine gave up there nukes, U.S. signed an agreement to protect Ukrainian sovereignty. As we can see with Crimea and now, it backed up from its promise. Same will happen when Putin will go to Poland claiming some of the old Russian territories.

 

[fall]

Anyone crowing about implementing a no fly zone in Ukraine is of course not living in reality of the scale of a nuclear war. Remember when John Kennedy warned the Russians about arming Cuba and the possibility of a war at that time. The Soviet Union immediately complied.

Can you imagine the catastrophe if Russian Jets flying over Ukraine are taken down by NATO? Implementing a No Fly Zone, means that you have to control the ground otherwise how can it be implemented? Putin's aim is not only to conquer the Donbas region, but to install a Puppet Government in Ukraine. Also, the next country to be invaded by the Russians will very likely be Moldova. They are not part of NATO!!

Or , yea, Moldova. Noone thinks it is a real country - just some mix or Russia and Romania . Of course he will take it. A more interesting question: who will be next? Poland or Baltic countries?

 

[bver_hunter]

Or , yea, Moldova. Noone thinks it is a real country - just some mix or Russia and Romania . Of course he will take it. A more interesting question: who will be next? Poland or Baltic countries?

Putin does not want to get his fingers burnt by invading a NATO Nation such as Poland!! If Ukraine can counter with such unexpected resistance, then definitely Poland will not be a bundle of joy for Putin!!

 

[bver_hunter]

 

[tml]

2022 Time magazine's Person of the year.

 

[fall]

Putin does not want to get his fingers burnt by invading a NATO Nation such as Poland!! If Ukraine can counter with such unexpected resistance, then definitely Poland will not be a bundle of joy for Putin!!

Latvia then. Small country, former USSR republic, lots of Russians (needed "protection"). You think U.S. will fight Putin their even though Latvia is a part of NATO? What's the difference?

 

[glamphotographer]

I say The US and Nato are considering a covert operation in Ukraine, they won't say it because it won't be covert anymore.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

I'm surprised that Putin is allowing Alexei Navalny to live. Putin has good reason to fear him, he made clear the longer Putin is in power the poorer Russians will become.

Putin's mandate has him in power until 2035 minimum. Russia has festering social problems that are not being addressed. The population of the country is 144 million and dropping, by 2035 it may reach 128 million...less than Nigeria.

Too bad General MacArthur isn't around, he'd know what to do. So much for Man of Steel, Stalin was a Big Chicken.

General bone spurs knows what to do and it would be beautiful. He can't tell you what it is though that's a secret

 

[dirtydaveiii]

I say The US and Nato are considering a covert operation in Ukraine, they won't say it because it won't be covert anymore.

They must be using donnies secret plan

 

[Frankfooter]

Zelensky has agency and he feels a no-fly zone is going to help him. He doesn't care about NATO's larger strategic issues when he is in a crisis and that's understandable.
The US is an extremely militaristic society and now that the GOP has mostly decided the "Putin is the good guy" narrative isn't going to fly, they are switching to the "Biden is too weak and we should attack" narrative that - sadly - works very well in the US. (Look at the piece RAIN posted.)

The whole thing is a shit show and real life is incredibly complicated. There are people who support Mearsheimer 's narrative that this is all due to not letting Ukraine keep its nuclear weapons and expanding NATO and so are advocating for more countries to have nuclear weapons. There are others who are pushing "missile defense" like the old days of Star Wars and pretending that "missile defense" isn't considered an explicitly aggressive move by other nuclear powers. Some want a straight up return to the mid-20th century and think we should hand back most of Eastern Europe to Putin. Others think Putin is weak in this moment but will always be insecure because he is weak and so the US and Europe should destroy Russia and invade it now, giving the eastern half to the Chinese.

People are going to say lots of crazy shit because when things get chaotic everyone who doesn't like the current system starts thinking that maybe they can avoid the long, hard work of changing the system carefully and just blow shit up and get what they want in the aftermath.

Putin is moving in soldiers from all over the country, this war is taxing him way more that he'd admit. Which is likely why he switched from taking out the government and installing a puppet government to bombing the shit out of the place until they surrender. I don't think he really has the forces to take on a bigger war. Which means if he gets threatened he'd likely go nuclear before taking on NATO.

 

[nottyboi]

Is it his way of telling Putin NATO sucks and he won't join it
after the invasion? Seeing that Canada is the only member
who got the guts to sanction Russian oil Zelensky is convinced
he can't depend on NATO for protection even as a member
nation Putin will soon announce mission accomplished and
withdraw his army having amassed sumptuous oil profits.

Canada is a net oil exporter, so its not guts, its not that risky for us to do it.

 

[nottyboi]

Putin wants the Donbas region and a security guarantee that Ukraine won't join NATO. He has no designs on expanding westward. He doesn't have any interest in occupying Ukraine because he knows his military does not have the logistical capacity to do so. That has become very apparent over the course of the invasion so far.

I disagree, he will keep a large chunk of Ukraine, including Kiev. The remaining Ukraine will be a landlocked state with Liviv as its capital, most agrarian.

 

[nottyboi]

Putin is moving in soldiers from all over the country, this war is taxing him way more that he'd admit. Which is likely why he switched from taking out the government and installing a puppet government to bombing the shit out of the place until they surrender. I don't think he really has the forces to take on a bigger war. Which means if he gets threatened he'd likely go nuclear before taking on NATO.

War is a difficult undertaking, I don't think Putin expect this to be easy, Russia is only using a small percentage of its firepower now. The Ukraine military has been pretty much shattered. If it came down to it, Putin could deploy massive firepower and pummel Kiev using the same tactics as the US did in Mosul. But I think the Russians will not do this. Russia has taken a space the size of the UK in just over 10 days, yet somehow its "bogged down"?

 

[nottyboi]

I'm surprised that Putin is allowing Alexei Navalny to live. Putin has good reason to fear him, he made clear the longer Putin is in power the poorer Russians will become.

Putin's mandate has him in power until 2035 minimum. Russia has festering social problems that are not being addressed. The population of the country is 144 million and dropping, by 2035 it may reach 128 million...less than Nigeria.

Too bad General MacArthur isn't around, he'd know what to do. So much for Man of Steel, Stalin was a Big Chicken.

Well Russian are still FAR richer then when Putin took over. Of course sanctions and massive economic realignment that comes with it will make Russia poorer for a while. But in case you didn't notice its making us all poorer as well.

 

[Anbarandy]

I disagree, he will keep a large chunk of Ukraine, including Kiev. The remaining Ukraine will be a landlocked state with Liviv as its capital, most agrarian.

War is a difficult undertaking, I don't think Putin expect this to be easy, Russia is only using a small percentage of its firepower now. The Ukraine military has been pretty much shattered. If it came down to it, Putin could deploy massive firepower and pummel Kiev using the same tactics as the US did in Mosul. But I think the Russians will not do this. Russia has taken a space the size of the UK in just over 10 days, yet somehow its "bogged down"?

Well Russian are still FAR richer then when Putin took over. Of course sanctions and massive economic realignment that comes with it will make Russia poorer for a while. But in case you didn't notice its making us all poorer as well.

large chunk.....agrarian.....war is difficult......small percentage of firepower....Ukranian military shattered.....pummel Kiev....Mosul......UK....."bogged down?"....Russia richer....poorer for awhile...you didn't notice...

 

[jsanchez]

Well Russian are still FAR richer then when Putin took over. Of course sanctions and massive economic realignment that comes with it will make Russia poorer for a while. But in case you didn't notice its making us all poorer as well.

Ra Ra Vladimir!