We Finally Seem Ready to Take on the One Per Cent | The Tyee
There are signs, globally and at home, that the rich’s grasp on power is slipping.
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We Finally Seem Ready to Take on the One Per Cent
- Thread starter Charlemagne
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top 1% income n Canada starts at $250K. Out of it, $100K goes to taxes, so, you are left with $150K (minus pension contribution if you are lucky and the employee offers a pension plan). IMHO, not enough to provide for a family of 4 in Toronto if only one parent is working, especially given the real estate prices.We Finally Seem Ready to Take on the One Per Cent | The Tyee
There are signs, globally and at home, that the rich’s grasp on power is slipping.
The definition of "rich" is laughable in Canada. It's the upper end of the middle class at best.
...Are you saying a family of four can't survive in Toronto on over 10000 net per month!?!?!
This is why you are so out of touch. You would easily, with a million dollar mortgage, have 3-4000 left over per month, after paying all expenses.
Survive? Yes. Live comfortably? No. Let's just do a bit of calculation:
Semi-decent house withing 10 km from work: $2.5M with $500K down payment. 25 years mortgage is $8,400/month. Should I continue?
A way back in suburbs where you can buy a house with $1M paying $6000K mortgage, $1000K property taxes and insurance, $1000K car payments and insurance for 2 cars, $700 for utilities and phones for 4 people, you are left with $2,300 for food, cloth, children's activity, entertainment, etc. This is the life of top 1%
. Who is out of touch here?Are you asking people to feel sorry for others who only make $259K per year? Really?
No, I am saying that top 1% are not rich by any means: they are the one that fly Economy class to go to Disneyworld and save money for a vacation. Of course, if you chose not to have a family and live in a 1-bedroom apartment, you may have much more money left for entertainment, but, yet, you cannot fly business class (I am not even talking about first class) to Thailand fro Xmass. $150K post-tax for a family in Toronto is just enough for an average mid-class life.
Like I said. Clueless. 12,000 in Property taxes? For an average 3 bedroom in say Pickering? Remember they access at about half actual price. Its more like half that. Not sure what car you are buying but most family will own one minivan, one normal car. Average Mortgage will be closer to 4500-5000.Survive? Yes. Live comfortably? No. Let's just do a bit of calculation:
Semi-decent house withing 10 km from work: $2.5M with $500K down payment. 25 years mortgage is $8,400/month. Should I continue?
A way back in suburbs where you can buy a house with $1M paying $6000K mortgage, $1000K property taxes and insurance, $1000K car payments and insurance for 2 cars, $700 for utilities and phones for 4 people, you are left with $2,300 for food, cloth, children's activity, entertainment, etc. This is the life of top 1%
Id say its closer to $4000 per month in income after, not 2300. And not everyone needs to commute into Toronto. Far from it.
And not every family goes on a trip to Disney every year. Far from it. Cripes Disney is now a 10,000 for a week vacation. Most go camping, road trip somewhere to visit family, visit a cottage or trailer thats family owned.
I have tons of friends who earn less, on two incomes. And own homes, with happy kids. You are projecting your personal lifestyle choices into the calculation. And also using Toronto as the base line. There are 10+ million in Ontario who happily don't live, don't work, and in many cases don't come to Toronto more than a few times a year. Live, work and play in Thousands of communities across the province.
Oh and there are many homes in Toronto city limits in the 1-1.3 million range for a house. Smaller, but whats wrong with that? Add in low Property taxes(I pay low 3,000 on mine), transit commute(yes many do that too), actually cooking at home, not ovetly emgaging in constant consumerism, and it would be easy.
And when you factor in use of RRSPs to defer taxes that money is all discretionary monthy spending.
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Since you want to steal from them , nobody has any expectation of you feeling sorry for them
They do not make $259K per year, they earn $259K per year
Which requires 60 to 70 hour weeks, special in-demand skills, and / or placing their capital at risk
And if you are earning $259K per year, you are very likely employing others
You should be feeing sorry for those that do not assume the responsibilities , hard work and risks to achieve reward
Take away the reward and nobody will assume the risk or the hard work and sacrifices
Which is vital to economic prosperity for all
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Let us be realistic. Most of those in their forties or fifties have already paid off their mortgages on homes that were a fraction of the price at one time. Highly unlikely that you will see that many going into housing market at the stage when they are earning $250,000 a year. They will have done so at a much earlier stage of their lives and already owning a semi-decent house. Very likely that these individuals also own a cottage that they use in the summer and travel on multiple vacations in the winter as they get over 6 weeks of vacation per annum along with some other travel perks associated with their position within the organization. Did you know that the multi-national corporations have their conferences in exotic islands like the Bahamas and of course all those attending can fully expense it with their meals, hotel stay and air fares in business class? Some corporations even permit the spouses to attend and also fully compensate their travel expenses!! These individuals own multiple cars that are close to the $100,000 bracket.Survive? Yes. Live comfortably? No. Let's just do a bit of calculation:
Semi-decent house withing 10 km from work: $2.5M with $500K down payment. 25 years mortgage is $8,400/month. Should I continue?
A way back in suburbs where you can buy a house with $1M paying $6000K mortgage, $1000K property taxes and insurance, $1000K car payments and insurance for 2 cars, $700 for utilities and phones for 4 people, you are left with $2,300 for food, cloth, children's activity, entertainment, etc. This is the life of top 1%
There are several families that have also emigrated to Canada that have worked in the Gulf, and guess what, they have the cash to fully purchase their homes. $1.5 - 3.00 million is absolutely no problem to them. So who in reality who is out of touch here?
By definition if you are within the top 1% of anything you are at the top of that thing, including income. Perhaps not rich but very well off.
So, what you are describing is a mid of mid-class life. Let;'s allow the house to worth $1.3M: that will bring mortgage + taxes+insurance
Are you trying to tell me that a person who is in top 1% income can support a family with non-working wife and a kid living in a small house or way in suburbs and can even save money to go to Disneyworls once every two years? I completely agree with you. But it is a middle-class (not even upper-middle class) life.
So, you are talking about old people who already have money. Of course, if you already have money for a house, you can save on mortgage
. How about young MBAs or Doctors? If they are good, they can reach $200K very fast. Yet, they will have neither time no money to support a family. Of course, if you already have $3M in assets (like home) and earn $200K/year, you can support a wife and two kids and even buy business class tickets to Florida (but not to Asia - still too steep for you, so, no family vacation to China or Australia while being able to sleep in a horizontal position during 14-hour flight). I am sorry, but we are still talking about middle-class professionals, not about rich people. IMHO, a person cannot be called rich if he cannot take his family for a spontaneous weekend in Rome flying first class.Its all relative. The term 1% is thrown around but what they are really talking about are the 1 million plus earners, moreso the billionaires. Your literal definition is not the proper context.
And btw a middle class life in Canada is outstanding compared to about 90% of the world. We have it really good.
It is all relative. The life that people can afford in Canada working at the minimum wage job at Walmart will be the life of top 5% in Russia outside the major metropolitan centres, and, I bet, top 0.1% in many African countries. The problem with taxing $1M+ earners is that, if it is am employment wage (top executive) - it will simply go up to retain them, while, if it is an investment income - the investors will park their money somewhere else. So, basically, the only thing that is left are are private successful Canadian businesses which, most probably, make them less successful and will not only lead to closure or downshift of some of them, but also for the sharp decline in entrepreneurial activity as rewards for the same level of risk will be much lower.
1% of our population is about 350,000. There has to be waaay more people than that making over $250,000. I wonder how many are just in Toronto.
Top Earners In Canada: Here's How Much The 1% Make - Narcity
The average income for Canada's wealthiest people varies depending on province too, with the top 1% in Ontario earning $514,300 in a year, while the top 1% in the Territories earn $353,500 annually on average.
The top 1% for Canada is closer to $500K.
I just used google search: threshold for "top 1% income in Canada" is $244,800; threshold for top 0.1% is $776,000. I.e., if you earn $250 pre-tax ($150K after tax), you are in top 1%. Average income of all "top 1 % earners" is $496,000 (but average has little meaning since it includes people making well over $1M a year). Also, I am pretty sure it is 1% of labour force, not population (and labour force in Canada is 20M people). So, 200,000 earn over $250K, only about 20,000 (top 0.1%) earn over $776K (they can allow themselves to fly first class but will still care about the price and will try to find a deal or settle for the business class instead), and only 2,000 people (top 0.01%) earn above $2.75M. So, about 2000 rich people in Canada (and $2.75M is not crazy rich, since it is pre-tax, so, no private island for them or even a luxury yacht or jet).
We do have it really good
You might ponder why
Mostly because our predecessors worked hard, invested their capital and innovated ... in order to reap the reward of their efforts and the risk they assumed
this tax the rich BS will kill that
Crazy math.
In the meantime, as my link shows, 350,000 Canadians, the top 1% earn approx minimum of $500k, double what was posted originally. These are the only people that would be affected. Boo hoo for them.
