Toronto Passions

2020-21 Maple Leafs Thread

Male4Strapon

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Marner was actually one of the best Leafs in the last 2 playoff disasters. It's the lack of depth that kills them.
Price robbed Mitch in that first game and then Marner started tossing the puck into the stands for some inexplicable reason. It seemed to get into his head and his confidence was shot after that.
If he had scored that goal, I think Marner would have had a very different series. He was mentally defeated early and couldn’t break out of it.
 
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superstar_88

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Marner was actually one of the best Leafs in the last 2 playoff disasters. It's the lack of depth that kills them.
That goes along the lines of missing Tavares. Not much mention of him by anyone. The team is built on 4 forwards. Meaning 2 scoring lines of significance. Without Tavares Montreal only had to focus on 1. Tavares would have been a better option than Thornton as well on the PP. Tavares was also missed for facefoffs. Matthews lost a lot of faceoffs and their line was chasing to get the puck back most shifts because of that. Foligno out means 2 of your top 6 is not available. That is signifcant considering Thornton, Simmonds, Micky, Engvall, Nash are useless as scoring threats. Kerfoot and Gally are not true top 6 players.

Missing Muzzin for game 7 was also significant. He's not just a defensive defensemen. He's savvy. Makes the right plays. The team plays a more controlled game with him rather than without.

Missing Tavares and Foligno was the equalizer and the series as as whole was pretty much even. Montreal won 2 OT games after all and the first game was 2 to 1 and of course Leafs never have it when it comes to game 7's. Leafs poured it on in the game 6 OT but one mistake and 1 deflected shot was all it took for Montreal.
 
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smuddan

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Marner was actually one of the best Leafs in the last 2 playoff disasters. It's the lack of depth that kills them.
But how are they going to address that ”lack of depth“ with so much cap locked up on the big 4 ? Then they have to find more room to keep Hyman ? Without touching the big 4 contracts Hyman will be gone and do you really think minor tinkering can turn this team into a real contender ?
 

mellowjello

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Price robbed Mitch in that first game and then Marner started tossing the puck into the stands for some inexplicable reason. It seemed to get into his head and his confidence was shot after that.
If he had scored that goal, I think Marner would have had a very different series. He was mentally defeated early and couldn’t break out of it.
If that's the case it would be a point of concern that he would be that mentally fragile and easily demoralized.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Everyone can read, and everyone understood what you said. Including me, and I called you out on it. Suck it up, buttercup.
If I give 3 or 4 reasons why they lost and none had to do with luck, and then later on as an afterthought I mention not getting some bounces and all you get out of all the reasons I gave was " So what you're really saying is that MTL beating the Leafs in a seven game series was really nothing more than luck?" is funny.

Please tell me how these have anything to do with luck.

1)They got outcoached. Montreal had a plan to stifle Matthews and Marner and through a full 7 game series, Toronto coaching never figured out a way to free them up from Montreal checking. Big blame on the coaches for this. They could not counter Montreal's plan.

2)They got outgoalied. Campbell was good. Price was clearly better.

3)They out-passed themselves. Why, oh why do they feel the need to try to make every goal worthy of the prettiest goal of the year? Shoot the damn puck. Kerfoot had Nylander on a 2 on 1 and even though he had a clear shot with Willy closing on the net, you just knew that he was going to try the pass and so did the defenceman. It was telegraphed. I think that Marner is the worst offender. How many times does he hold the puck, hold the puck looking for a perfect play and before you know it he is behind the red line with the puck and then loses the puck.
Like I said, you're trying too hard to take me down a peg and you need to pick your spots better. You're making yourself look foolish. The fact that you doubled down on your inaccurate interpretation made it even worse. Those two posts of yours reminded me of a movie. The two posts were Dumb and Dumber.
 
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bullitt

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The first major decision will be one the Board has to make. This is the 7th season of Shanahan and the team has not gone passed the first round. The negative fan reaction is one that never been worse. Will the board react the same way or stay put ? My guess is he’ll stay for at least another year.

‘’The next question will be Dubas and Keefe. This is the third season under Dubas and again complete melt down come playoff time. Shany seems to be a loyal and stubborn guy so if he stays, my guess is so will Dubas and Keefe.

Then it will come down to the roster. Can we still believe that we can move forward with over $40mil tied up for 4 forwards ? Personally I think one of them has to go and it’ll be either Marner or Nylander.

Marner has had bad playoffs and his trade value is probably at the lowest. Nylander’s trade value may be quite high because there may be gms who would just look at the numbers like our on board cheerleaders do and think that he’s the best Leaf and a leader. For better return I’ll say trade Willy.

Equally important decisions will have to make on Rielly and Hyman. Rielly has not been able to quarterback the pp effectively but how are we going to get an upgrade ? Trades will be costly. Zeth Jones may be available but he’s an upgrade on defence but not on offence.

I’d hate to see Hyman go but there’ll be teams throwing fat deals with term at him that the Leafs are unable or unwilling to match. He’s a much better leader than Nylander in my opinion and he’s worth just as much to the team if not more.
well said! (y) (y).
 

Male4Strapon

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If that's the case it would be a point of concern that he would be that mentally fragile and easily demoralized.
It’s easy to forget that he and Matthews are still very young and had a ton of pressure on them especially after Tavares went down. While others contributed offensively as the series progressed, it was these two who were expected to carry the load. I think they gripped their sticks too tight (as the saying goes) and in Marner’s case, the bad break of Price’s great save and his stupid delay of game penalty messed him up for the rest of the series.
Even going up 3-1 I think they still were burdened by the pressure. Problem is that with yet another first round choke, the pressure will only be greater next year.
 
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superstar_88

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The Leafs played the regular season to gain home ice for game 7 yet what did they do with it? Looks like nothing. Playing the Matthews line against Montreal's checking line was a huge mistake. Montreal more or less got the line match up they wanted. Matthews should be playing against the oppositions top scoring line. Like Sundin use to do. Power for power. Both Hyman and Marner are also good defensive players and Matthews is at a stage now where he's also sound defensively. Montreal's checking line had one and only one mandate. To play it even. They were not out to push the offense. Just to do the Nash thing.

About Marner he looked nothing like in both the series against Boston. Against Boston he played with confidence. He played with Tavares and Hyman to stop Bergeron/Pasty/Marchand 5 on 5 and they did. Played them even but Boston's PP was unstoppable. Leafs losing every faceoff to Bergeron didn't help. This whole series Marner looked rattled. Perhaps seeing Tavares being wheeled out on a stretcher spooked him but that's just speculation.

About Nylander. Even the deniers have to admit he looked a lot better than he did in previous playoffs. A lot more body contact initiated by him. More assertive.

About Matthews what I noticed is through the early games he was initiating a lot of hitting. Very engaged. The latter games it didn't look like there was anymore hitting from him.
 
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John Wick

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That goes along the lines of missing Tavares. Not much mention of him by anyone. The team is built on 4 forwards. Meaning 2 scoring lines of significance. Without Tavares Montreal only had to focus on 1. Tavares would have been a better option than Thornton as well on the PP. Tavares was also missed for facefoffs. Matthews lost a lot of faceoffs and their line was chasing to get the puck back most shifts because of that. Foligno out means 2 of your top 6 is not available. That is signifcant considering Thornton, Simmonds, Micky, Engvall, Nash are useless as scoring threats. Kerfoot and Gally are not true top 6 players.

Missing Muzzin for game 7 was also significant. He's not just a defensive defensemen. He's savvy. Makes the right plays. The team plays a more controlled game with him rather than without.

Missing Tavares and Foligno was the equalizer and the series as as whole was pretty much even. Montreal won 2 OT games after all and the first game was 2 to 1 and of course Leafs never have it when it comes to game 7's. Leafs poured it on in the game 6 OT but one mistake and 1 deflected shot was all it took for Montreal.
Pretty sure that Tavares' absence was noted as critical waaaay back in post #1834. :cool:
 
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John Wick

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If I give 3 or 4 reasons why they lost and none had to do with luck, and then later on as an afterthought I mention not getting some bounces and all you get out of all the reasons I gave was " So what you're really saying is that MTL beating the Leafs in a seven game series was really nothing more than luck?" is funny.

Please tell me how these have anything to do with luck.



Like I said, you're trying too hard to take me down a peg and you need to pick your spots better. You're making yourself look foolish. The fact that you doubled down on your inaccurate interpretation made it even worse. Those two posts of yours reminded me of a movie. The two posts were Dumb and Dumber.
Take you down a peg? LOL! The only person who cares that much about you, shack, is you. I simply pointed out your ridiculous post as being ridiculous. Don't lose your mind over it.
 

John Wick

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I am actually a big Marner fan but I‘m concerned with his poor playoff performance in 4th consecutive seasons. I hope they don’t trade him but at the same time I don’t think they can make significant improvements on the roster with that much money/cap space tied up in 4 forwards. Somewhere somehow they’ll have to find that stud d man who can effectively quarterback the pp and play better defence than Rielly before they can become a real contender; and they’ll need to get that cap space from trading one of the big 4, hopefully it’ll be Nylander and not Marner.
I see it like this...

Re-sign Hyman to play with Matthews and find another more experienced, but cheaper setup guy to replace Marner. I like him, but his contract has got to go. Willy is cheaper, and locked up for longer, so makes better financial sense to keep him. If you don't like him next year, you can still move him before his NMC/NTC kicks in in a couple years.
Play Willy with Tavares and find a gritty winger to dig the puck out for them just like Hyman does now.
Keep Foligno and Spezza as your #3 and #4 centres.
Keep Kerfoot, Simmonds, and hope one or more of Robertson, Brooks, or Amirov can step up for the regular season. Maybe go shopping for another quality #3 or #4 winger.
Keep Muzzin, Holl, Brodie, Sandin, Dermott, Hutton, and Lilejegren.
See how Bogosian looks early on in the reg season, upgrade if necessary.
Shop for a major stud on defense to replace Reilly.

Keep Campbell, Rittich. Shop for a better #2


This means trading Marner, Reilly, Mikheyev, and Engvall if possible.
Let go of Thornton, Nash, Galchenyuk, and Andersen. Maybe Andersen can be re-signed for less...if so, do it and send Rittich to the Marlies. If not no biggee IMO.

Basically, its add two quality wingers for what you were paying Marner; Get a quality 3rd line guy to upgrade bottom six. Add a stud defenseman with money from casting off Reilly, Andersen, Mik, Engvall, Thornton, Nash, and Gally.
 

shack

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Take you down a peg? LOL! The only person who cares that much about you, shack, is you. I simply pointed out your ridiculous post as being ridiculous. Don't lose your mind over it.
I just proved that whatever you were trying to point out was ridiculous. And the only reason you even tried is that, for some reason, I must be in your head. Too bad for you that you failed miserably. You claimed that I was saying the only reason the Leafs lost was because of luck. I showed my posts on the Leafs' loss had nothing to do with luck. Coaching, goaltending, poor decision making was what I said.

So if you care as little as you say you do about what I post, it should be safe to assume that you won't bother with any more lame attempts at trying to prove how little I know compared to you. After all, I am insignificant to you, which I am perfectly fine with. Why waste your time? Especially when you embarrass yourself in attempting to do so.
 

smuddan

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I see it like this...

Re-sign Hyman to play with Matthews and find another more experienced, but cheaper setup guy to replace Marner. I like him, but his contract has got to go. Willy is cheaper, and locked up for longer, so makes better financial sense to keep him. If you don't like him next year, you can still move him before his NMC/NTC kicks in in a couple years.
Play Willy with Tavares and find a gritty winger to dig the puck out for them just like Hyman does now.
Keep Foligno and Spezza as your #3 and #4 centres.
Keep Kerfoot, Simmonds, and hope one or more of Robertson, Brooks, or Amirov can step up for the regular season. Maybe go shopping for another quality #3 or #4 winger.
Keep Muzzin, Holl, Brodie, Sandin, Dermott, Hutton, and Lilejegren.
See how Bogosian looks early on in the reg season, upgrade if necessary.
Shop for a major stud on defense to replace Reilly.

Keep Campbell, Rittich. Shop for a better #2


This means trading Marner, Reilly, Mikheyev, and Engvall if possible.
Let go of Thornton, Nash, Galchenyuk, and Andersen. Maybe Andersen can be re-signed for less...if so, do it and send Rittich to the Marlies. If not no biggee IMO.

Basically, its add two quality wingers for what you were paying Marner; Get a quality 3rd line guy to upgrade bottom six. Add a stud defenseman with money from casting off Reilly, Andersen, Mik, Engvall, Thornton, Nash, and Gally.
‘Our ideas may be different in some details but I think we’re on the same page, that either Marner or Nylander should be traded to add more talent on defence and depth. I still think Marner is the better “team player” than Nylander, he plays better defence, one of the best set up men, and kills penalty. I suppose it’ll largely depend on what return we can get for either and that is something we fans don’t have access to. Nylander to me is a one trick pony but he does that trick (finishing) better than Marner.

Zeth Jones is an upgrade on defence over Rielly but not offence. The Leafs also desperately need a quarterback for the power play. Rielly is ineffective and Sandin is questionable as to when and if he’ll develop into a pp quarterback. Again we don’t have information to who’s available and at what costs, but it‘s part of the fun for us fans to speculate and play armchair gms.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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I called the three game collapse to a few friends.

I long ago stopped giving this team any emotional support.

Call me when they get the third round in the future. Until then they don't deserve the eyeballs. It was a choke. Pure and simple. A team collapse.
 

TeeJay

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Call me when they get the third round in the future. Until then they don't deserve the eyeballs. It was a choke. Pure and simple. A team collapse.
You know in the past 50+ years the Leafs have only made it to 3rd round 4 times
Since expansion (1967) they have never even skated in the finals (they lost all 4 times in that 3rd round)

You can't win if you don't play
 

Butler1000

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You know in the past 50+ years the Leafs have only made it to 3rd round 4 times
Since expansion (1967) they have never even skated in the finals (they lost all 4 times in that 3rd round)

You can't win if you don't play
The question is not if they can play. The question is does the management of the team over that 50+ years really care about winning. The fans suffered through Ballard, the teachers, and now various corporate entities who primarily care about money and not winning. With excuse after excuse.

There is always a player, a ref call, a hit, on and on, but never real responsibility. Because they rely on the "community" love and support for their product. The play on the emotions of fans to sell overpriced tickets, merch, and to advertise others products for cash. And sports radio, old jocks, and sportswriters to debate and distract with minutiae. And another year goes by.

In my opinion they don't win because in the end they don't have to. Everything will sell. Until the fans leave empty seats and stop watching the owners won't care. Won't create a truly winning culture. Won't demand it of the players. Of the coaches. Of the management.

They don't care, so why do you?
 
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