Some masks better than others

[Phil C. McNasty]

I said no such thing. I asked a question for which, as yet you have provided no answer. What percentage of each? It may be 100% droplets until you present PROOF to the contrary. A study with actual proof will be able to give a breakdown if they can differentiate the two

You clearly said in previous posts that masks stopped droplets. That was the thrust of your argument.
You had no clue that free viral particles can exist in exhaled breath.
Now you wanna know how infectious free particles are compared to large droplets.
Because the virus is so new I dont think anybody knows the answer to that question yet, what is known however is that the virus is airborne and that free particles can infect people in addition to large droplets.

I dont know if you read the article I posted (sounds like you didnt), but in it they state that droplets dont float in the air, they tend to fall to the floor and stay there. By that logic any reasonable thinking person can conclude thats its exhaled breath thats responsible for the majority of infections, and not large droplets which you seem to think is responsible. And the reason exhaled breath is causing the current spread is because people are wearing those flimsy masks which have at least 4 large gaps from which air can escape from

It was clear that I know you didn't claim that and that was the purpose of that last statement of mine. I asked why do you ONLY talk about masks being ineffective, which implies that you don't mention any others. Follow? Since you couldn't follow the first time, I'll try again for you, but hold your ear closer to the screen this time so you might catch on.

Masks are only 1 suggestion of about 4 or 5. Your argument of masks being useless is based on the fact that despite people wearing masks cases keep going up. Well, the exact same line of thinking can be applied to distancing, isolation, washing hands, avoiding large gatherings, ventilation etc. People follow those and cases keep increasing. As such, by your logic, they are as useless as masks

No, because Ontario's 1st wave curve (from about April to June) was flattened by locking down, distancing, isolation, washing hands....etc. Then masks were added into the mix and it made no difference. Not only in Ontario did it not make any difference, but it didnt in Spain, France, Italy, Germany....etc either.

That is proof the masks people are currently wearing are futile. N95 masks are needed

 

[shack]

You clearly said in previous posts that masks stopped droplets.

Correct.

You had no clue that free viral particles can exist in exhaled breath.

Where did I say that?

Now you wanna know how infectious free particles are compared to large droplets.

Wrong again, Phil. I want to know what the ratio of virus droplets to free virus there is. If it's 99:1 droplets, then the issue of free particles is moot.

No, because Ontario's 1st wave curve (from about April to June) was flattened by locking down, distancing, isolation, washing hands....etc. Then masks were added into the mix and it made no difference. Not only in Ontario did it not make any difference, but it didnt in Spain, France, Italy, Germany....etc either.

I couldn't find a similar study regarding Ontario. As to Germany:

Timo Mitze, Reinhold Kosfeld, Johannes Rode, Klaus Wälde 22 June 2020

Confronted with a novel, aggressive coronavirus, Germany implemented measures to reduce its spread since March 2020. Requiring people to wear face masks in public places has, however, been a subject of controversy and isolating the effect of mask-wearing on the spread of COVID-19 is not simple. This column looks at the town of Jena and other German regions that introduced face masks before the rest of the country to see whether the requirement makes a difference in the number of new COVID-19 cases. Requiring face masks to be worn decreases the growth rate of COVID-19 cases by about 40% in Germany.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Where did I say that?

Here you clearly state that the virus can only exist encased in droplets .
This is not true, they can exist as free particles as well (which you didnt know)

Link: https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/some-masks-better-than-others.726027/post-6905673

Wrong again, Phil. I want to know what the ratio of virus droplets to free virus there is. If it's 99:1 droplets, then the issue of free particles is moot

You obviously didnt fully read the last link I posted. Or maybe you just cannot comprehend the information??

Try reading it again: https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea...airborne-who-aerosol-droplet-transmission-cdc

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I couldn't find a similar study regarding Ontario. As to Germany:

Timo Mitze, Reinhold Kosfeld, Johannes Rode, Klaus Wälde 22 June 2020

Confronted with a novel, aggressive coronavirus, Germany implemented measures to reduce its spread since March 2020. Requiring people to wear face masks in public places has, however, been a subject of controversy and isolating the effect of mask-wearing on the spread of COVID-19 is not simple. This column looks at the town of Jena and other German regions that introduced face masks before the rest of the country to see whether the requirement makes a difference in the number of new COVID-19 cases. Requiring face masks to be worn decreases the growth rate of COVID-19 cases by about 40% in Germany.

Lmao!!! 40% reduction, eh??!!
According to Al-Jazeera Germany made masks mandatory throughout the country in April: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/8/17/which-countries-have-made-wearing-face-masks-compulsory

This was the result

 

[basketcase]

Well at least now you're admitting Covid can occur in free floating particles (READ: your normal breath). T...

Did anyone ever say that there weren't?

The inconvenient fact you insist on ignoring is that the vast majority of particles are either droplets or aerosolized larger than the 0.3u you were going on about showing masks are effective. Even if you made the ridiculous assertion that 50% of the virus were free virions then that still means masks reduce the viral load by 50%.

 

[shack]

No, because Ontario's 1st wave curve (from about April to June) was flattened by locking down, distancing, isolation, washing hands....etc. Then masks were added into the mix and it made no difference. Not only in Ontario did it not make any difference, but it didnt in Spain, France, Italy, Germany....etc either.

And that coincides to the time that other restrictions were eased, such as bars and restaurants opening up, covid fatigue, people gathering in larger groups, people demonstrating, ignoring covid protocol etc. A slight increase in the number of mask wearers (lots of people were already wearing masks) is only one of a number of factors that came into play after June. In fact the cases didn't start going up 'til late August or early Sept., months after mask use increased.

I do agree with you that the blue surgical masks are much more effective than the reusable cloth ones that many people use, but even they will stop a lot of the droplets in the humid breaths that we exhale.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

And that coincides to the time that other restrictions were eased, such as bars and restaurants opening up, covid fatigue, people gathering in larger groups, people demonstrating, ignoring covid protocol etc. A slight increase in the number of mask wearers (lots of people were already wearing masks) is only one of a number of factors that came into play after June. In fact the cases didn't start going up 'til late August or early Sept., months after mask use increased.

I do agree with you that the blue surgical masks are much more effective than the reusable cloth ones that many people use, but even they will stop a lot of the droplets in the humid breaths that we exhale

But thats obvious shack. Of course almost any mask will stop large droplets from coughs or sneezes.
But according to the links I posted its not those large droplets that infect people because they are heavy and will drop to the ground very quickly.
Its the microscopic particles that are the most dangerous because they tend to linger in the air for many hours.
That perfectly coincides with the fact we are still seeing our new infection rate go up every day.

Conclusion: N95 masks are needed

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Did anyone ever say that there weren't?

The inconvenient fact you insist on ignoring is that the vast majority of particles are either droplets or aerosolized larger than the 0.3u you were going on about showing masks are effective. Even if you made the ridiculous assertion that 50% of the virus were free virions then that still means masks reduce the viral load by 50%.

Wrong!

Read the links I posted which state large droplets are heavy and will fall to the ground quickly.
Its the microscopic particles that linger in the air for many hours that are more dangerous

 

[shack]

Conclusion: N95 masks are needed

Most masks make a difference, and to a varying degree.

Better than when you were giving blanket statements of "masks are useless".

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Most masks make a difference, and to a varying degree.

Better than when you were giving blanket statements of "masks are useless".

I never said masks were useless, I said most masks people are currently wearing are useless.

Again, N95 masks are needed to make a dent in daily new infections

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Almost 3,000 new infections today: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid19-update-jan-3-1.5859907

 

[shack]

I never said masks were useless, I said most masks people are currently wearing are useless.

Not gonna search but you definitely said that masks don't work/are useless. Maybe not in this thread.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Not gonna search but you definitely said that masks don't work/are useless. Maybe not in this thread

I'll do the search for you. 1st page of this thread:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/some-masks-better-than-others.726027/post-6824892

Watch this video and then you'll understand why most masks don't work. Covid is airborne, and most masks only stop droplets.
The only protection that would work would be N95 masks and safety glasses (since viruses can enter through the eyes)

 

[shack]

Maybe not in this thread.

. 1st page of this thread:

LOL

 

[shack]

I do wear a mask, I just dont think they've made any difference in reducing the spread.

Which means that you think that they are useless. They have done nothing.

 

[basketcase]

Wrong!

Read the links I posted which state large droplets are heavy and will fall to the ground quickly.
Its the microscopic particles that linger in the air for many hours that are more dangerous

Amazing that you can read an article about the effectiveness of masks and conclude that they are a waste.

 

[basketcase]

...

Again, N95 masks are needed to make a dent in daily new infections

So the numerous tests showing that surgical masks are within a few percentage points of effectiveness were all lies?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Which means that you think that they are useless. They have done nothing

You are grasping at straws now, shack.
I have repeatedly said masks in general (that most people are wearing) havent made any difference in reducing the spread.

And the current Ontario Covid numbers would back up that assertion

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Amazing that you can read an article about the effectiveness of masks and conclude that they are a waste

Read post #700

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So the numerous tests showing that surgical masks are within a few percentage points of effectiveness were all lies?

I'm not sure which tests you are referring to, but the studies I have posted ITT say they dont make much difference.

N95 masks are needed.

You know, the ones they mostly use in hospitals