Toronto in another lockdown. Are agencies in Toronto closing?

[Phil C. McNasty]

So if 10K microbes get released into the air vs.1K, the same number of people will get exposed even though there will be a lower concentration of the virus

To make a long story short, it doesnt matter much.

Lets say you're on a bus or streetcar thats packed with people. And you release 10K microbes in one breath vs. 1K.
That would be great if you stayed on that bus for 1 breath, except you don't.
You stay on that streetcar or bus probably for hundredths (if not thousands) of breaths before you either get off, or transfer onto the next bus so you can infect more zombies!

You dont seem to understand, this virus is airborne, people who are in close proximity of each other (like on a bus, streetcar or subway) WILL infect each other, regardless of whether they are wearing a mask. The only mask that might make a difference is an N95 mask, but very few are wearing those

 

[csmitting]

We no longer have the resources to go another way. There were few, very few voices in the spring that advocated to use the public funds tp protect the vulnerable segments of the population. I, I must proudly say, was among them- not that it mattered in the noise of panic and hyperbole. The result? The Covid swept through the LTC facilities and gave us the very scary death numbers. We went into lockdown without having ANY idea about the prevalence of Covid among the general population because we didn't test and on the basis of "what if". As in "what if covid cases overwhelm our hospitals?" How many field hospitals and temporary facilities could we have erected with 300 billion dollars that we blew on the wage subsidies? How many seniors facilities could we have isolated by paying the staff to stay on site or even go through the proper quarantine before entering? The solutions were and are out there, but the people who are in charge cannot change the course, anymore. There political and their professional reputations are now on the line. What's left of them, anyway.

To be fair, the proposed solution is nearly the same the world over. Any suggestion of a more pragmatic approach has been met with a storm of public or media outraged criticism. So officials just stick to monkey see monkey do approach.
Lockdowns do have some success, but more so at delaying in hopes of a vaccine. A successful and fast launch vaccine will justify lock downs, but only if it works.

 

[jetwolf]

It would be nice if we could keep just one thread on the topic of the current status of agencies, without devolving into a general discussion of the merits of lockdowns. There are literally dozens of threads for the latter.

 

[Kracker]

So if 10K microbes get released into the air vs.1K, the same number of people will get exposed even though there will be a lower concentration of the virus. Riiight.

Does the virus have a heat seeking mechanism so it can seek out and not miss any living organisms? Hey guys, I think see someone to the left. Let's go get him.

BTW, do you actually know how many of the microbes it takes to infect someone? I am not sure where you got that first line from. Did you make it up because this quote is from your article: The minimum infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is unknown so far.

Does it matter where they land on that person? I suspect if more virus gets expelled there is a better chance that it will land on the face than on the feet. Less virus means that there is less chance that it will land on the face unless, once again, the virus has a homing mechanism that directs it to the face.

Short story, as long as the mask stops some of the virus from getting in the air, there will be less virus and a lower concentration of virus being expelled. Just like it was (as you said) common sense that should have made Dr. Tam to recommend masks immediately, it is common sense that less virus at a lower concentration will result in a lower chance of infection transmission.

Why are you even wasting time arguing w people who have no science background and can’t visualize fluid dynamics or understand epidemiology? This is why the scientists give the politicians simple advice and the politicians boil it down further; e.g. wear a mask and stay home.

If we’d done a better job of science literacy, we wouldn’t have ended up with a guy like Trump.

 

[lenny2]

The problem is you only need microscopic amounts to infect you. So lets say you sneeze and most of it gets caught in the mask. Whatever the mask didnt catch is still more than enough to infect people around you

The fewer amounts of virus invading a person, the less chance they have of being infected, getting sick, having severe health problems or even death as a result.

So masks are saving people from ill health & death.

 

[lenny2]

According to Health Canada you can get Covid through your EYES

So masks do jack & shit when it comes to preventing spread

What a covidiotic, illogical & irresponsible remark.

"...the evidence so far suggests that eyes are not a primary mode of transmission."

"If a lot of people were being infected through their eyes, there would be more COVID-19 patients with conjunctivitis – inflammation of the eyes, also known as pink eye."

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Expert warns of coronavirus transmission through eyes

Some novel coronavirus patients – though very few – exhibit symptoms in their eyes, a Turkish optometrist has said.Speaking to Anadolu Agency (AA),...

www.dailysabah.com

People blink a lot. Also contact lenses, eye glasses, sunglasses, shields, etc, provide some protection to the eyes from C-19.

 

[shack]

According to Health Canada you can get Covid through your EYES

So masks do jack & shit when it comes to preventing spread

We are talking about whether the possibility of someone getting covid via their eyes is less or equal if the person that they come in contact with is wearing a mask. Try to keep up.

 

[lenny2]

To make a long story short, it doesnt matter much.

Lets say you're on a bus or streetcar thats packed with people. And you release 10K microbes in one breath vs. 1K.
That would be great if you stayed on that bus for 1 breath, except you don't.
You stay on that streetcar or bus probably for hundredths (if not thousands) of breaths before you either get off, or transfer onto the next bus so you can infect more zombies!

You dont seem to understand, this virus is airborne, people who are in close proximity of each other (like on a bus, streetcar or subway) WILL infect each other, regardless of whether they are wearing a mask. The only mask that might make a difference is an N95 mask, but very few are wearing those

Where is there - any - scientific evidence that a significant amount, or any virus, is released into the environment through the nose simply by breathing?

The only mask that might make a difference is an N95 mask,

False.

Studies have shown that surgical medical type masks are almost equally effective as N95 masks.

Studies have shown that well made cloth masks are highly effective, near to the effectiveness of the two aforementioned types.

Studies have shown that cloth masks in general have very significant effectiveness.

 

[shack]

To make a long story short, it doesnt matter much.

Lets say you're on a bus or streetcar thats packed with people. And you release 10K microbes in one breath vs. 1K.

And what if you are sitting across a table from someone? Or in an elevator with another person?

There are multitudes of situations and kinds of interactions. The discussion was, with all things being equal, do masks provide any benefit?

 

[shack]

Why are you even wasting time arguing w people who have no science background and can’t visualize fluid dynamics or understand epidemiology? This is why the scientists give the politicians simple advice and the politicians boil it down further; e.g. wear a mask and stay home.

If we’d done a better job of science literacy, we wouldn’t have ended up with a guy like Trump.

The frustrating part is that it is not a lack of a knowledge of science that is the problem, but it is an inability to look at things logically and rationally. To say that a mask which blocks some of the virus is no different than wearing no mask at all, defies logic.

It's like saying that if your umbrella has a few pin sized holes in it you will get just as soaked in the same period of time as if you had no umbrella at all. Toss the umbrella.

 

[TeeJay]

It's like saying that if your umbrella has a few pin sized holes in it you will get just as soaked in the same period of time as if you had no umbrella at all. Toss the umbrella.

Hardly
A better analogy is that walking outside with a mask on your head is keeping you dry during a thunderstorm

Yes it will prevent some water hitting your head
But what it stops is a rather small amount

 

[Fun For All]

Hardly
A better analogy is that walking outside with a mask on your head is keeping you dry during a thunderstorm

Yes it will prevent some water hitting your head
But what it stops is a rather small amount

The best protection to stay dry in a thunderstorm is to stay home and don't go outside.

 

[Kracker]

The frustrating part is that it is not a lack of a knowledge of science that is the problem, but it is an inability to look at things logically and rationally. To say that a mask which blocks some of the virus is no different than wearing no mask at all, defies logic.

It's like saying that if your umbrella has a few pin sized holes in it you will get just as soaked in the same period of time as if you had no umbrella at all. Toss the umbrella.

I still think we must suck at science education if this is a real argument.

What I sometimes tell people is to visualize cigarette smoke in the air if they want to visualize an aerosol - it doesn’t last forever but it does hang around a bit.

The analogy fails at smell, though - cigarette smell stays for hours!

Anyway thanks for trying. I think you’ll agree it does little good though! *lol*

BTW I am seriously waiting to see if SPs will be open this week...

 

[shack]

Hardly
A better analogy is that walking outside with a mask on your head is keeping you dry during a thunderstorm

Yes it will prevent some water hitting your head
But what it stops is a rather small amount

Not if it is an umbrella sized mask with a handle to hold over your head.

 

[TeeJay]

Not if it is an umbrella sized mask with a handle to hold over your head.

lol

You do understand a cloth mask, no matter how large it is will not prevent water from seeping through right? Now change word "water" to "covid". That is the point.

Go ahead I even will let you use your handle to hold it up

 

[shack]

lol

You do understand a cloth mask, no matter how large it is will not prevent water from seeping through right? Now change word "water" to "covid". That is the point.

I don't consider cloth a good barrier. It is waaay too porous. An umbrella with even 1,000 pin sized holes will keep you drier longer than no umbrella. That is the mask analogy.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I don't consider cloth a good barrier. It is waaay too porous. An umbrella with even 1,000 pin sized holes will keep you drier longer than no umbrella. That is the mask analogy

But you'll still get wet

 

[shack]

But you'll still get wet

Please read my post more carefully:

I don't consider cloth a good barrier. It is waaay too porous. An umbrella with even 1,000 pin sized holes will keep you drier longer than no umbrella. That is the mask analogy.

Your post implies, and I agree, that you'll still get wet but EVENTUALLY, not right away. No umbrella and you are soaked within a minute or two. An umbrella with 1,000 pin-sized holes you will not be soaked in 1-2 minutes. It will take longer.

So that umbrella may not keep you dry indefinitely or even for a whole hour but it will keep you dry enough for 10-15 minutes because IT IS KEEPING OUT SOME OF THE RAIN. The exact same point that is trying to be made about masks, they may not keep you completely protected (dry) from the virus but they will provide partial protection and keep you more protected (drier) than no mask.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Please read my post more carefully:


Your post implies, and I agree, that you'll still get wet but EVENTUALLY, not right away. No umbrella and you are soaked within a minute or two. An umbrella with 1,000 pin-sized holes you will not be soaked in 1-2 minutes. It will take longer.

So that umbrella may not keep you dry indefinitely or even for a whole hour but it will keep you dry enough for 10-15 minutes because IT IS KEEPING OUT SOME OF THE RAIN. The exact same point that is trying to be made about masks, they may not keep you completely protected (dry) from the virus but they will provide partial protection and keep you more protected (drier) than no mask

Sure, but if you're sitting on a crammed bus or streetcar with a few infected people I doubt that difference in minutes will matter much

 

[lenny2]

You do understand a cloth mask, no matter how large it is will not prevent water from seeping through right? Now change word "water" to "covid". That is the point.

Actually a cloth mask will actually prevent much of the liquid & water contained in a sneeze or cough from going through the mask. Fact.

So the cloth mask will prevent many germs in the coughing & sneezing from reaching other people. Fact.

So cloth ( & other) masks work to prevent covid infections, ill health & deaths.

It's just common sense & backed by scientific evidence.