Will Leafs Make the Playoffs?
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ESPN did not provide a split of TOI under Babcock and TOI under Keefe. I did find a December 9, 2019 article where Keefe said he wants more TOI for his stars and it does show the increase in TOI for Matthews and Marner. I suspect that the TOI for the stars is even more true as of December 31, 2019. So, it stands to reason that more TOI increases the risk of burnout and injuries. BTW: I'm not concerned about the TOI of players on other teams.
Extract from the article and a link.
"Since Keefe coached his first game behind the Leafs’ bench on Nov. 21, he hasn’t shied away from leaning on his stars, and increasing their ice time compared to when Mike Babcock was calling the shots. In averages alone, Mitch Marner went from 19:40 TOI per game to 21:01 under Keefe, while Auston Matthews is averaging 20:10 per game compared to 19:44."
https://www.tsn.ca/rielly-barrie-finding-their-groove-on-maple-leafs-blueline-1.1410745
Matthews is probably averaging 2 or 3 extra shifts per game under Keefe. The style of play under Babcock probably took a higher toll on Matthews and the other elite Leaf players than what they are experiencing under Keefe. Besides, if the extra shifts are the difference between making or missing the play-offs, by all means give the better players on the Leafs more icetime. The Leafs are better off now than the first 23 games of the season.
Here are the usage numbers for Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander under the each coach.
Numbers are up to date as of yesterday's game against the wild.
Marner and Tavares are being used more.
Nyander and Matthews are being used about the same
Matthews
Babcock: 19:50 ATOI (16:25 ES, 3:24 PP), 24.4 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 20:15 ATOI (17:40 ES, 2:32 PP), 22.7 Shifts/Game
Marner
Babcock: 19:40 ATOI (13:33 ES, 3:14 PP, 2:53 SH), 25.7 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 22:15 ATOI (17:35 ES, 2:55 PP, 1:44 SH), 24.5 Shifts/Game
Tavares
Babcock: 18:26 ATOI (15:22 ES, 3:04 PP), 22.1 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 20:24 ATOI (17:51 ES, 2:31 PP), 23.0 Shifts/Game
Nylander:
Babcock: 18:00 ATOI (15:06 ES, 1:19 PP), 23.4 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 17:37 ATOI (15:19 ES, 2:17 PP), 21.6 Shifts/Game
Numbers are up to date as of yesterday's game against the wild.
Marner and Tavares are being used more.
Nyander and Matthews are being used about the same
Matthews
Babcock: 19:50 ATOI (16:25 ES, 3:24 PP), 24.4 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 20:15 ATOI (17:40 ES, 2:32 PP), 22.7 Shifts/Game
Marner
Babcock: 19:40 ATOI (13:33 ES, 3:14 PP, 2:53 SH), 25.7 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 22:15 ATOI (17:35 ES, 2:55 PP, 1:44 SH), 24.5 Shifts/Game
Tavares
Babcock: 18:26 ATOI (15:22 ES, 3:04 PP), 22.1 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 20:24 ATOI (17:51 ES, 2:31 PP), 23.0 Shifts/Game
Nylander:
Babcock: 18:00 ATOI (15:06 ES, 1:19 PP), 23.4 Shifts/Game
Keefe: 17:37 ATOI (15:19 ES, 2:17 PP), 21.6 Shifts/Game
Thanks. Marner's ATOI is up 14.1% (PP and PK are actually down).
Tavares' ATOI is up 10.8% (PP is down). Both players missed games earlier this year. Nylander's PP is up. Matthews PP is down. Interesting.
BTW: May I ask the source of these numbers? I did a search and couldn't find the Babcock/Keefe split.
Tough choice but I would agree. However, I would hate to see Marner, Tavares and Matthews (missed 40 games in last 2 seasons) get hurt again.
BTW: I still remember the Washington Nationals being heavily criticized for shutting down Stephen Strasburg to save his career.
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/stephen-strasburg-shutdown-world-series-mvp-66655391
If the Leafs can continue to play "Babcock hockey", like they did against the Wild, their chances improve.
If William Nylander can continue to be effective, then I'll drop the Wilma tag.
If William Nylander can continue to be effective, then I'll drop the Wilma tag.
Show us proof that higher usage of NHL players results in burnout?
Factual, actual, documented proof, not cherry~picked individual examples of 1 or 3 particular players who burnt out, but a study that shows player burnout (what exactly is burnout anyway?) from increasing a player's T.O.I. by 30 to 90 seconds per game.
Marner's ATOI is up 2:35 mins and Tavare's ATOI is up almost 2:00 mins. Logic will say that an increase in ATOI raises the risks of burnout and/or injuries.
Burnout: "Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress."
I actually like the idea in MLB (yeah, yeah I know they have a 162 game schedule) where their pitchers only start every 5th day and pitch only around 100 pitches per start plus they give the fielders an occasional day off.
NHL has an 82 game schedule (where players hit each other) plus 16-28 games playoffs. There's a reason why some experts say Andersen should only play around 65 games. Right now he is on pace to play 64 games. I think the skaters should also get a game or two off during the season to rest up physically and mentally.
Burnout: "Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress."
I actually like the idea in MLB (yeah, yeah I know they have a 162 game schedule) where their pitchers only start every 5th day and pitch only around 100 pitches per start plus they give the fielders an occasional day off.
NHL has an 82 game schedule (where players hit each other) plus 16-28 games playoffs. There's a reason why some experts say Andersen should only play around 65 games. Right now he is on pace to play 64 games. I think the skaters should also get a game or two off during the season to rest up physically and mentally.
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One might think that Mitch Marner & John Tavares would be more stressed sitting on the bench watching lesser players give away their (MM & JT's) efforts.
From this post of yours, logic would indicate an increase in burnout and/or injuries.
Yet, you provide no documentation that increased T.O.I. results in either of those things.
Once again, RockSlinger is hypothesizing. Good job, good effort.
Instead of using coaches as a metric, where do the Leafs top players stand in terms of ice time compared to other top young players on their teams.
Here are some TOIs
McDavid--22:14
Draisitl--22:32
MacKinnon--21:05
Panarin--20.25
Eichel--21:56
P. Kane--21:14
Scheiffele--21:33
Ovie (old guy)--20:44
Hedman--22:57
Matthews
Babcock: 19:50 ATOI
Keefe: 20:15 ATOI
Marner
Babcock: 19:40 ATOI
Keefe: 22:15
Tavares
Babcock: 18:26 ATOI
Keefe: 20:24 ATOI
Nylander:
Babcock: 18:00 ATOI
Keefe: 17:37
So thanks to Rockslinger's idiotic complaint of the Leafs top 4 being over-utilised because of Keefe, we now know that thanks to Keefe these guys are being played only slightly below league wide standards for top players and were being very underplayed under Babcock.
Once again Rockslinger demonstrates his lack of knowledge of hockey all the while he's trying to convince us of the opposite, that he has vast knowledge and is qualified to criticize Keefe and Keenan. Hahaha.
Hey, Rockie. Maybe you should stick to something you are good at, like hijacking threads, like Ceiling Cat's "who is this" threads even when you already had your own.
Maybe you should delete this thread as well and wipe out all the contributions people have made just because you made yourself look silly. You can cement your reputation as a little child who takes his ball and runs home.:Cry:
McDavid--22:14
Draisitl--22:32
MacKinnon--21:05
Panarin--20.25
Eichel--21:56
P. Kane--21:14
Scheiffele--21:33
Ovie (old guy)--20:44
Hedman--22:57
Matthews
Babcock: 19:50 ATOI
Keefe: 20:15 ATOI
Marner
Babcock: 19:40 ATOI
Keefe: 22:15
Tavares
Babcock: 18:26 ATOI
Keefe: 20:24 ATOI
Nylander:
Babcock: 18:00 ATOI
Keefe: 17:37
So thanks to Rockslinger's idiotic complaint of the Leafs top 4 being over-utilised because of Keefe, we now know that thanks to Keefe these guys are being played only slightly below league wide standards for top players and were being very underplayed under Babcock.
Once again Rockslinger demonstrates his lack of knowledge of hockey all the while he's trying to convince us of the opposite, that he has vast knowledge and is qualified to criticize Keefe and Keenan. Hahaha.
Hey, Rockie. Maybe you should stick to something you are good at, like hijacking threads, like Ceiling Cat's "who is this" threads even when you already had your own.
Maybe you should delete this thread as well and wipe out all the contributions people have made just because you made yourself look silly. You can cement your reputation as a little child who takes his ball and runs home.:Cry:
There are always going to be differences of opinion as well, and there is nothing wrong with debating them.
An opinion can only be shut down when it is proven to be without merit.
Anyone and Everyone (even Rocky) is welcome to state their opinion.
A key is to be able to substantiate it, defend the position.
There is nothing wrong with well reasoned differences of opinions but posts by Shack and GC are laced with meaningless personal insults (shows lack of class and character).
Since Shack picked 9 samples (including one defenseman), here are my 9 samples (no defenseman because they usually log more TOI)..
Bergeron 19:25
Pastranak 19:30
Marchand 19:56
O'Reilly 20:50
Perron 18:36
Schenn 18:26
Schwartz 18:01
Tarasenko 16:10
Bozak 15:42
All under 20:00 except O'Reilly. Sign of a much more balanced offense and less wear and tear on the players.
