The Blue Jays 2019 Season

[Perry Mason]

Of course they have a plan! They are experienced professionals not rank amateurs who have never managed a baseball team of any kind yet believe (often self-righteously!) that they know better.

They are about mid way in their rebuilding process but our experts here are already predicting disaster. If they were incompetent idiots they would have been sorted out a long time ago... they would never have fooled both Cleveland's and Blue Jays owners and their professional advisors.

Frankly, I thought I understood their plan and what they are doing but their trades puzzle me. So maybe I didn't... however, I have access to about 3% of the information and assessments they rely on to make their decisions.

Unfortunately, the only way I can judge their competence is by the results they achieve. In retrospect. So I will have to wait a while before I can form an informed opinion on their moves.

But I like the team that is slowly taking shape. I know the Royals are a weak team but what I saw from the Blue Jays in the recent series is what I expect. They will probably have to buy some pitching in the free agent market this fall. And when the time comes, a DH as well. And if both Gurriel and Hernandez develop, they are set. If not they will have to find or buy a power hitting outfielder too.

Don't ask me about pitching. I don't understand getting rid of Stroman, Sanchez and Biagini, either. But they obviously have faith that some of their now numerous pitching prospects will pan out.

Perry

 

[gcostanza]

This is the bleakest day in Blue Jays history.

... gcostanza should change his handle to Jthedrunk.

Tissue?


On Aug. 27, 1992, the New York Mets sent pitcher David Cone to the Blue Jays for Jeff Kent and Ryan Thompson.

 

[Darts]

The talking heads on TV said the Jays currently don't have enough pitchers for a starting rotation. Who will make up the 5 starting pitchers?

 

[gcostanza]

The talking heads on TV said the Jays currently don't have enough pitchers for a starting rotation. Who will make up the 5 starting pitchers?

The Blue Jays may go with the Tampa innovation of Openers for some games for the balance of the 2019 season.
As far as "Starters", you could say:

Reid-Foley
Thornton
Waguespack
Pannone**maybe**?




Golly, I sure hope this post meets with Insidious Van's approval.

 

[shack]

The Blue Jays may go with the Tampa innovation of Openers for some games for the balance of the 2019 season.
As far as "Starters", you could say:

Reid-Foley
Thornton
Waguespack
Pannone**maybe**?

There's no Spahn or Sain so all we can do is pray for rain. (If any of the old-timers remember.)

 

[Dawgger]

Of course they have a plan! They are experienced professionals not rank amateurs who have never managed a baseball team of any kind yet believe (often self-righteously!) that they know better.

They are about mid way in their rebuilding process but our experts here are already predicting disaster. If they were incompetent idiots they would have been sorted out a long time ago... they would never have fooled both Cleveland's and Blue Jays owners and their professional advisors.

Frankly, I thought I understood their plan and what they are doing but their trades puzzle me. So maybe I didn't... however, I have access to about 3% of the information and assessments they rely on to make their decisions.

Unfortunately, the only way I can judge their competence is by the results they achieve. In retrospect. So I will have to wait a while before I can form an informed opinion on their moves.

But I like the team that is slowly taking shape. I know the Royals are a weak team but what I saw from the Blue Jays in the recent series is what I expect. They will probably have to buy some pitching in the free agent market this fall. And when the time comes, a DH as well. And if both Gurriel and Hernandez develop, they are set. If not they will have to find or buy a power hitting outfielder too.

Don't ask me about pitching. I don't understand getting rid of Stroman, Sanchez and Biagini, either. But they obviously have faith that some of their now numerous pitching prospects will pan out.

Perry

Perry: Yup a lot of what you say is probably spot on. You sound frustrated, so welcome to the group of frustrated fans! Any business organization has to have plans and goals, and I would hope Shatkins has a plans , 1 year 3 year 5 year etc., and the long term plans are adjustable and flexible. I believe a lot of the problem is, no one can figure the plan out and when you think you have an idea where they are going, the plan takes a 170 degree turn.
The young guns were awesome again vs KC and Baltimore, but those teams suck big time. Wait until we play a team that is playoff ready, then we will have a better idea what the youngsters are about.
6 very good innings from Thornton last night, followed by a surprisingly decent effort from the bull pen. Buddy had me concerned but he eventually got the job thanks a nice play by Galvis. I really have concerns about the current bullpen. Like you I don't get the pitching dump when they are all ready short on arms and some of what they have is suspect.
I believe most of us, including you, are on the same page. We want winning baseball and we want it sooner than later. We all hate the idea the team maybe regressing and instead of having a contender soon, we will still be on the infinite rebuild.

And it is great to see Vlady developing. He is beginning to resemble all the hype that preceded him!

 

[Insidious Von]

With the pitching staff decimated, the Shape regime have effectively undermined our young core of hitters. Maybe Reid - Foley, Thornton and Wagouspack can rise to the occasion. Nice to see Vlady making mashed potatoes for us fans.

George I remember the Cone-Kent deal. Kent went on to become a starr with the Giants...didn't he also make a sex tape?

...I don't hold grudges.

 

[black booty lover]

BBL: Do you really believe they have a plan? Honestly? or are you hoping they have a plan? On the upside, you may yet see the dome shut down because they can't put butts in the seats!

They have to have a plan. In Shapiro's case, he has to take that plan to the board of directors because is a publicly traded company. (I'm pretty sure that's how it works). I'm not sure why people are getting their calvin's in a knot at this point. These guys are going to get the chance to see the plan through and we'll see if it worked. I mean the core is already in place and starting to look good. They're going to have a ton of financial flexibility add to the core. My only concern so many clubs are trying to do this now, and when all clubs have the same strategy, it can't work. Difference with the Jays is there young core really are looking good.

 

[Perry Mason]

You sound frustrated, so welcome to the group of frustrated fans!

No, not frustrated. Just wondering, if that is not their plan then what is their plan? What makes more sense? It's the guessing game that we all like to play with management. Part of the "baseball experience"! :smokin:

Of course, some people forget it's a game and take their evaluations and opinions too seriously.

For example, one "contributor" here continuously insists that Shapero has a fixation about anything and everything that AA left behind. He obviously does not understand what professionalism means. Whatever else you may want to say about him, clearly Shapero is the ultimate professional.

I believe a lot of the problem is, no one can figure the plan out and when you think you have an idea where they are going, the plan takes a 170 degree turn.

True.

The young guns were awesome again vs KC and Baltimore, but those teams suck big time. Wait until we play a team that is playoff ready, then we will have a better idea what the youngsters are about.

It's one step at a time. And it takes time. You can't be thinking about your win/loss record when you are rebuilding because it is counter-productive.

Perry

 

[shack]

They have to have a plan. In Shapiro's case, he has to take that plan to the board of directors because is a publicly traded company. (I'm pretty sure that's how it works). I'm not sure why people are getting their calvin's in a knot at this point. These guys are going to get the chance to see the plan through and we'll see if it worked. I mean the core is already in place and starting to look good. They're going to have a ton of financial flexibility add to the core. My only concern so many clubs are trying to do this now, and when all clubs have the same strategy, it can't work. Difference with the Jays is there young core really are looking good.

IMO, right now the core of their 25 man roster is 4 guys. Vlad, Biggio. Bichette, Gurriel. They have no other position players on their level with their potential. As far as I can see, they have zero core of pitching and it's taken shapeero 5 years to achieve this and if lucky, only 3 or 4 more years to field a contender.

I realise that I have whined, sometimes obsessively, about this management's methodology in terms of fielding a respectable and goodwill retaining team that is backed by enormous big time money and arguably among the largest markets in terms of population in MLB, but I have nothing new to add.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Toronto Blue Jays@BlueJays

�� MORNING NEWS ��

Vlad Jr. has 16 (!!) RBI in his last ��️ games. He's the youngest player EVER to reach that mark over a 5-game stretch!

 

[gcostanza]

George I remember the Cone-Kent deal. Kent went on to become a starr with the Giants...didn't he also make a sex tape?

I don't know about a Kent sex tape, David Cone was alleged to have masturbated in a bullpen.

The point of the Kent/Cone post is one cannot judge a baseball trade (especially 1 where it's a star/established player for prospect(s) often for 4-6 years.
Kent would have done nothing toward the Blue Jays World Series triumph, David Cone was instrumental.
Alas, Toronto gave up a terrific young player, who went on to play 17 pretty terrific years in MLB.

Lets not hang Shapiro & Atkins in effigy just yet.
Sure, they've made some mistakes in trades and signings. So did Pat Gillick.
They've also made some very good deals, and avoided pitfalls of emotion with regard to popular players.

Cutting ties with JB, EE, RM have allowed young players to begin to show their worth.
JB, no 5 yr/$150Mm deal, TBJ drafted/signed Nate Pearson with the pick they got for losing EE,
Thornton was acquired for Aledmys Diaz, Waguespack for Aaron Loup, Pannone for Joe Smith.
Just a few examples...

It's a process.

Yes, '15 and '16 were tons of fun.
Atkins and Shapiro have been cleaning up A.A.'s party since then, with the last of it gone after 2020 when Tulowitzki's deal expires ($4Mm buyout for 2021).

All the bellyaching and whining truly is amusing.
Would we (as a fan base) have passed on '15-'16 knowing there'd be 3-4 years of disaster-ball to follow?
Not very many would.

Trust the process.

 

[gcostanza]

IMO, right now the core of their 25 man roster is 4 guys. Vlad (20), Biggio (24). Bichette (21), Gurriel (25). They have no other position players on their level with their potential. As far as I can see, they have zero core of pitching and it's taken shapeero 5 years to achieve this and if lucky, only 3 or 4 more years to field a contender.

I realise that I have whined, sometimes obsessively, about this management's methodology in terms of fielding a respectable and goodwill retaining team that is backed by enormous big time money and arguably among the largest markets in terms of population in MLB, but I have nothing new to add.

You left out Danny Jansen (24) from the core, Reid-Foley (23) as well, Pannone, Thornton, Waguespack, (all 25),
for some reason Reese McGuire (24) gets no love from you?

You complain incessantly about this management group.
When was the last time you acknowledged something they did well?

 

[Toronto Passions]

Re Stroman to the Mets.... wasn’t Mark Shapiro rumoured to be going to the Mets last year? Looking at what they got in return for Josh Donaldson and now for Marcus Stroman, I think there might be a Met/Indian/Shapiro conspiracy going on. Lol. Or just maybe these guys know something we don’t. Maybe there is some creative angle way of looking at Richardson’s 3 and 8 record in A ball. He does have 97 strikeouts in 78 innings.

It’s just sickening to see what Cleveland got for Bauer. Like seriously. So much more could’ve been acquired from dealing Stroman. It would’ve been nice to see these young guys make things interesting next year and compete a little bit.

Philip

 

[gcostanza]

....Or just maybe these guys know something we don’t. Maybe there is some creative angle way of looking at Richardson’s 3 and 8 record in A ball. He does have 97 strikeouts in 78 innings.

It’s just sickening to see what Cleveland got for Bauer. Like seriously. So much more could’ve been acquired from dealing Stroman. It would’ve been nice to see these young guys make things interesting next year and compete a little bit.

A pitcher's W/L record means virtually nothing.
Less than that, in A ball.
The 97K/78Inn means a hell of a lot more.

Trevor Bauer is a much better pitcher than Marcus Stroman.
That could explain a more significant return.
How do you know there was "so much more" that could have been received in exchange for Stroman?
Were you in on the discussions?
Do you think the Blue Jays brain-trust moved MS6 to a team for less value than they were offered elsewhere?
Ludicrous.

You can already foresee Toronto's W/L record for 2020?
What'd you do, borrow IV's crystal ball?

 

[Toronto Passions]

Trevor Bauer is a much better pitcher than Marcus Stroman.

Can you further elaborate on this comment? Thank you kindly.

Philip

 

[shack]

All the bellyaching and whining truly is amusing.
Would we (as a fan base) have passed on '15-'16 knowing there'd be 3-4 years of disaster-ball to follow?
Not very many would.

My issue is that it appears more likely that it will take 7-9 years.

 

[Perry Mason]

My issue is that it appears more likely that it will take 7-9 years.

It appears to whom?

And, on what facts do you rely in support of your thesis?

Perry

 

[Dawgger]

My issue is that it appears more likely that it will take 7-9 years.

Hope your wrong....not sure I got that much time left!...… Might that that be an issue with you too?:blue:

 

[Dawgger]

Does anyone know (gcostanza) what the Jays received for Sogard? Finally found an article that suggested it was 2 players to be named later. Jays get to choose 2 from 4 pitchers named currently in Ray's system.