Toronto shootings

[Mr Deeds]

I totally understand the criminal element but simple logic dictates that if there are less guns available to be bought that there would be less shootings. How much less is difficult to say but the conjecture works equally on both sides of the argument. Nobody can definitively prove their point either way.

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Bad guys dont get their hand guns legally, they are manufactured or imported from the states or stolen. There are very strict laws in Canada regarding hand guns and yet we still see a record amount of shootings. One deterrent that might work is to make the penalties for possession so strict these guy think twice before pulling a gun out.

 

[Orion1027]

Ban handguns. Some will still get into the wrong hands, but for sure the number of shootings and shooting deaths will be significantly reduced.

Horse shit!!! The only ones giving up their guns are legal licensed owners, gangbangers won’t give them up. If we want to get serious about the problem choke off the flow of guns from the US. Unfortunately this would involve patrolling the native reserves that straddle the boarder and planting the police in high risk communities..... and we know politicians don’t have the stones to do either, so the go after the legal gun owners who happen to be predominantly white males. Just take a look at the shooting victims and perps.....there I said it!

 

[shack]

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Bad guys dont get their hand guns legally, they are manufactured or imported from the states or stolen. There are very strict laws in Canada regarding hand guns and yet we still see a record amount of shootings. One deterrent that might work is to make the penalties for possession so strict these guy think twice before pulling a gun out.

Less cars=less traffic.
Less guns=less shootings.

Nobody can prove that the criminals will get their hands on guns just as easily if there is a strict ban. Strictly conjecture.

 

[Charlemagne]

Not gonna work shack. 90% of handguns are imported from the US.
Do you know how easy it is to take a gun apart and put it in the mail??

Also you would just be punishing legal gun owners who abide by the law

"Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159

 

[Mr Deeds]

Less cars=less traffic.
Less guns=less shootings.

Nobody can prove that the criminals will get their hands on guns just as easily if there is a strict ban. Strictly conjecture.

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ok so where do you think bad guys are getting their guns now

 

[Platon]

I don't think it has anything to do with guns. It has to do with worsening of living conditions across the board; it is more difficult to buy, rent, buy food and clothing for oneself etc. As result more and more people are pushed on the margins where they need to do things to survive or maintain desired lifestyle. Some people simply lose it altogether because the prospects are no longer what they were just 3-4 years ago. It will get worse.

 

[Orion1027]

"Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159

That story and statistics were walked back as being inaccurate.

Toronto police data show the percentage of so-called “crime guns” traced to Canada fell for a second straight year in 2017 to the lowest level in at least four years, contrasting with claims that outlaws are getting more of their firearms from domestic sources.

Only 20 percent of firearms, airguns, toy guns or replicas seized by the Toronto Police Service and deemed “crime guns” were traced to Canada in 2017, the least since at least 2014, according to calculations by TheGunBlog.ca based on police statistics. The earliest year available was 2014.

 

[contact]

you also have to take into account the fact there is NO standard to reporting gun numbers Canada wide for police

Toronto police for instance any gun with serial number removed or untraceable they say was domestically sourced proof or not

guns turned in are added to the crime guns

crimes committed by gun owners ( lets say theft) that happen away from their guns and have nothing to do with guns automatically result in the guns being seized and added to the crime guns

a ban on guns will have almost no effect 90%+ of the handguns are coming from the usa there is a HUGE demand and lots of money to be made smuggling guns a full out ban in Canada would result in a increase of smuggled guns they would be just if not more available to criminals and probably higher quality guns

they recently busted guys making handguns subguns and rifles anyone with a machine shop could do it guns are simple machines (its illegal don't!)

the problem is the criminal justice system and the hug a thug mentality a legal owner legally transporting a handgun forgets their paperwork gets up to 5 years in jail

a thug with a loaded illegal handgun on their person is out in less then 2

Liberal judges struck down the mandatory 5 years that Harper put in for illegal gun possession

they need to make the penalty so severe for having an illegal that its not worth the risk

I also think they need to use the proceeds of crime laws on know gang members and seize all their property if they cant prove an income source

the total ban in England is not working so why would Canada?? we have an open boarder with the largest source of guns in the world https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/27/police-struggle-to-stop-flood-of-firearms-into-uk

 

[Kadie Lux]

OMG! These Toronto (and area) shootings have seriously gotten out of control... its insanity. What the hell is wrong with people?? Wasnt there a shooting in the Rexdale area just last night too? Killing one person for sure and 2 others injured... Just awful.. 2019 is almost here, praying for a safer year to come. Why would anyone want to harm someone? I don't get it. Honestly its gotten ridiculous and very sad. I hope it doesnt continue to get worse

 

[lomotil]

A ban on hand guns in the city of Toronto would serve only the purpose of making hapless politicians look like they are actually doing something about this crisis. They would only be paying lip servicing to the problem. I said it before, it will take a " Jane Creeba" like occurrence to get any meaningful action to occur.

 

[Darts]

406 shootings so far. 51 dead and I think 91 wounded. Some of the woundeds are in a sorry state such as paralysis or in one case the guy has to pee into a tube that empties into a plastic bag. Can't be that bad, we don't hear BLM or the OHRC complaining.

Chief Saunders wants more "community policing" in 2019. This means more interaction with police which will really piss off BLM and OHRC.

 

[basketcase]

Way to compare apples to oranges

Right. No one ever complains that cars have to be registered and insured and owners must pass a test to get a licence.

 

[basketcase]

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Bad guys dont get their hand guns legally, they are manufactured or imported from the states or stolen. ....

The impact would be in cost. The harder it is to get an illegal gun, the more expensive it will be and it would price petty thugs out of the market.

 

[shack]

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ok so where do you think bad guys are getting their guns now

I don't know. But if there are less guns in existence in the city, they will be harder to get, which also means they will cost more.

Less guns=less shootings.

 

[shack]

I don't think it has anything to do with guns. It has to do with worsening of living conditions across the board; it is more difficult to buy, rent, buy food and clothing for oneself etc. As result more and more people are pushed on the margins where they need to do things to survive or maintain desired lifestyle. Some people simply lose it altogether because the prospects are no longer what they were just 3-4 years ago. It will get worse.

No dispute, but a shooting is much easier to commit than a knifing or clubbing etc. Plus you can shoot at a faster rate than any other method of violence.

More guns=more shootings.

 

[shack]

That story and statistics were walked back as being inaccurate.

Toronto police data show the percentage of so-called “crime guns” traced to Canada fell for a second straight year in 2017 to the lowest level in at least four years, contrasting with claims that outlaws are getting more of their firearms from domestic sources.

Only 20 percent of firearms, airguns, toy guns or replicas seized by the Toronto Police Service and deemed “crime guns” were traced to Canada in 2017, the least since at least 2014, according to calculations by TheGunBlog.ca based on police statistics. The earliest year available was 2014.

How many of the shootings in Toronto were done with illegally procured guns?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained from the states?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained outside of Toronto?
How many shootings were done by guns bought legally and then sold to criminals?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained legally and stolen by criminals?


Some "accurate numbers" would help the discussion. Without them, the whole criminals will still get them is CONJECTURE.

 

[shack]

Only 20 percent of firearms, airguns, toy guns or replicas seized by the Toronto Police Service and deemed “crime guns” were traced to Canada in 2017, the least since at least 2014, according to calculations by TheGunBlog.ca based on police statistics. The earliest year available was 2014.

Hardly an unbiased source. From their own website:
TheGunBlog.ca is:
Canada’s leading media for gun rights, politics, policy and the firearm industry.

Those stats are meaningless.

 

[shack]

you also have to take into account the fact there is NO standard to reporting gun numbers Canada wide

a ban on guns will have almost no effect 90%+ of the handguns are coming from the usa

Source please.

If there is no standard on reporting, where does this 90% come from. It sounds like you are pulling numbers out of your ass.

Less cars=less traffic.
Less guns-less shootings.

Simple logic, and as you've admitted there is no consistent reporting to say otherwise.

 

[shack]

A ban on hand guns in the city of Toronto would serve only the purpose of making hapless politicians look like they are actually doing something about this crisis. They would only be paying lip servicing to the problem.

Aside from your gut instinct, what proof do you have that it would make no difference?

 

[contact]

Aside from your gut instinct, what proof do you have that it would make no difference?

because most guns are NOT sourced in Canada they come from the USA a ban here would make no difference