Shooting at a Florida high school

[cunning linguist]

American security agencies from local police to the CIA already have and use such databases all the time. Without the kind of checks and balances you say are necessary. Have you heard of the No Fly List? Most Americans approve of them and their use.

Although many made objections on specific points, lots of them the same as yours, sensible people recognized there could be away to balance non-interference and public safety. The point is to solve those issues to get a needed job done, not use them as weapons to ensure nothing's done at all.

The "No Fly List" is a perfect example of a discriminatory government watch list with no transparency, oversight or recourse. Not sure you wanna bring that up.

 

[essguy_]

The trade is that children will not be killed at schools and concert goers will not be gunned down from a hotel window.

This is not a business deal. This is trying to ensure the safety and welfare of citizens. It is their right.

Did the government have to trade something to limit tobacco advertising and packaging? What did the government give pharmacies when they were told that they were no longer allowed to sell cigarettes?

Actually the Govt did have to trade something with the tobacco companies.- it was called the "Master Settlement". This limited and defined the State Health Care liability for the big 4 tobacco companies. A further example of how dealing is involved - the Master Settlement gave rise to a new class of bond - called "Tobacco Bonds" - which allowed municipalities to get immediate payment based upon the hypothetical stream of liability payments as a result of the "Master Agreement". So a LOT of money was made from this (pricing the bonds was a bit of an art form - taking into account the Tobacco company profits, future viability, etc. The market is illiquid, but the instruments DO need to be priced). Anyway, as horrible as it sounds - when you have two sides in any deal who are far apart then the only way a deal gets done IS to "horse trade". Doesn't matter which industry or which situation. Either nothing gets done, or dealing happens. I continue to hope that something like National Standards and background checks can be "traded" for a drop on any talks of bans of certain weapons (which may sound good - but are pretty useless anyway).

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Totally insane. Who's going to protect the students when a teacher goes postal?

When's the last time a teacher in the US went postal and shoot up his/her school??

 

[essguy_]

When's the last time a teacher in the US went postal and shoot up his/her school??

Well, I guess the answer may be linked to the VERY obvious - when was the last time teachers packed heat in their classrooms as a matter of practice and has a teacher EVER lost their temper uncontrollably in their classroom? Edit to add: And has a student ever "borrowed" something from a teacher without their knowledge?

The plan to arm teachers has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. It's bad enough when many gun owners don't know how to safely handle their weapons. Now every teacher is going to become proficient enough to protect, without taking out the entire front row of keeners?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Well, I guess the answer may be linked to the VERY obvious - when was the last time teachers packed heat in their classrooms as a matter of practice and has a teacher EVER lost their temper uncontrollably in their classroom?

Did you know thousands of airline flights take off every day in the US with an armed air marshall on board. By your logic we should stop arming them because there's a chance one might snap, hijack the plane and blow every passenger away

The plan to arm teachers has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. It's bad enough when many gun owners don't know how to safely handle their weapons. Now every teacher is going to become proficient enough to protect, without taking out the entire front row of keeners?

All I know is if I were a teacher in an American school right now I'd be packing heat voluntarily.

No decree from Trump needed

 

[canada-man]

Air Marshalls are trained with guns and how to handle dangerous situations most teachers are not

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Air Marshalls are trained with guns and how to handle dangerous situations most teachers are not

So.......you take a training course.

Taking one of those is a good idea even if you're not a teacher and just trying to be a responsible gun-owner

 

[oldjones]

Air Marshalls are trained with guns and how to handle dangerous situations most teachers are not

And one would hope that training particularly emphasizes crowd-control in panic situations, extremely careful targeting, flawless accuracy, and requires a very high passing-grade. The next level above Air Marshal might be adequately equipped to save children's lives by shooting people in classrooms.

 

[essguy_]

Did you know thousands of airline flights take off every day in the US with an armed air marshall on board. By your logic we should stop arming them because there's a chance one might snap, hijack the plane and blow every passenger away


All I know is if I were a teacher in an American school right now I'd be packing heat voluntarily.

No decree from Trump needed

Gee Philly: Did you know that US Air Marshals are NOT pulled from the ranks of teachers? In fact, they go through a little thing called "specialized training" which is ongoing and includes extensive (and ongoing) practice with handguns.

If you were a teacher, I'd pray for your students (safety AND education).

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Gee Philly: Did you know that US Air Marshals are NOT pulled from the ranks of teachers? In fact, they go through a little thing called "specialized training" which is ongoing and includes extensive (and ongoing) practice with handguns

Well DUH....they are part of LE, of course they get training.
But the actual handgun training is only 155 hours long, the other parts are weight training, boxing....etc.
A teacher probably wouldnt need all that, just handgun training should be enough

https://www.federallawenforcement.org/air-marshal/air-marshal-training/

 

[essguy_]

So.......you take a training course.

Taking one of those is a good idea even if you're not a teacher and just trying to be a responsible gun-owner

"take a training course"? Nobody tasked with using a gun for protection should go without regular practice. You want somebody new with a handgun protecting your kids? Would anybody in their right mind want you protecting their kids (since you obviously know absolutely nothing about gun handling and the fact that a "training course" is barely adequate for a recreational shooter, let alone a protector - but then lack of knowledge hasn't ever stopped you from posting before, right Philly?)

 

[essguy_]

Well DUH....they are part of LE, of course they get training.
But the actual handgun training is only 155 hours long, the other parts are weight training, boxing....etc.
A teacher probably wouldnt need all that, just handgun training should be enough

https://www.federallawenforcement.org/air-marshal/air-marshal-training/

"Only 155 hours". Yes, that's the training. Practice is ongoing. In fact nobody in LE goes without dedicated practice regularly. And you DO realize that 155 hours of training is like 20 days of fulltime training. Take a guess at the cost of that training, my ignorant friend. Now ask yourself another obvious question: How well are teachers funded right now in the U.S.? Where the hell are they going to get money for gun training - even if it was 10% of what any real LE officer would get.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

"take a training course"? Nobody tasked with using a gun for protection should go without regular practice. You want somebody new with a handgun protecting your kids? Would anybody in their right mind want you protecting their kids (since you obviously know absolutely nothing about gun handling and the fact that a "training course" is barely adequate for a recreational shooter, let alone a protector - but then lack of knowledge hasn't ever stopped you from posting before, right Philly?)

Wrong fuji, an armed teacher will always stand a better chance of defending a shooter then an unarmed one. Thats simple logic, something you often have a hard time with. And for concealed carry in many US States a training course is mandatory

If you were a teacher, I'd pray for your students (safety AND education)

If I were armed I might not need your useless prayers, I would just need a 9mm.

Tell me something, what have past prayers done to help stop school shootings??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

"Only 155 hours". Yes, that's the training. Practice is ongoing. In fact nobody in LE goes without dedicated practice regularly. And you DO realize that 155 hours of training is like 20 days of fulltime training. Take a guess at the cost of that training, my ignorant friend

Hey genius, ever heard of time management?? You just take 10 hours a week, over 15.5 weeks (or 5 hours on weekends)
Presto, you're done. After that its just maintenance

 

[essguy_]

Wrong fuji, an armed teacher will always stand a better chance of defending a shooter then an unarmed one. Thats simple logic, something you often have a hard time with. And for concealed carry in many US States a training course is mandatory


If I were armed I might not need your useless prayers, I would just need a 9mm.

Tell me something, what have past prayers done to help stop school shootings??

Your "logic" is full of holes - which is probably why you think calling me "fuji" is clever. An armed, inadequately trained teacher (with minimal practice) is more likely to shoot an innocent student in the panic of a real attack than to take out the shooter. You need to push yourself away from your "Call of Duty" games if you think what you're saying is "logic".

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Your "logic" is full of holes - which is probably why you think calling me "fuji" is clever. An armed, inadequately trained teacher (with minimal practice) is more likely to shoot an innocent student in the panic of a real attack than to take out the shooter. You need to push yourself away from your "Call of Duty" games if you think what you're saying is "logic"

Left-wing horseshit, fuji.

In case of a school shooting, its always better to be armed then unarmed. Of course there's a chance someone innocent might get shot, but they would probably get shot by the perpetrator regardless

 

[essguy_]

Just imagine Phil with a gun in the classroom. Since he probably looks like a pre-pubescent teenager, how is LE going to know that he's a teacher and not the shooter? Do they look for the "kick me" sign taped to his back?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Just imagine Phil with a gun in the classroom. Since he probably looks like a pre-pubescent teenager, how is LE going to know that he's a teacher and not the shooter?

By the time SWAT arrives that shooting is long over

Since he probably looks like a pre-pubescent teenager, how is LE going to know that he's a teacher and not the shooter? Do they look for the "kick me" sign taped to his back?

Humor was never really your strong point, fuji. I score that one a 4/10 on the laugh scale

 

[essguy_]

By the time SWAT arrives that shooting is long over

Silly me. LE would likely follow the pee trail to find you in a closet, hiding beneath bodies.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Silly me. LE would likely follow the pee trail to find you in a closet, hiding beneath bodies

3/10

Try harder, fuji :biggrin1: