Canadian Economy - Buoyant

[Frankfooter]

You do not have a clue
Small business owners employ a lot of people
They will not absorb all of these extra expense themselves

But so long as you get to screw the man

Who has been talking about taxing small business owners?
(besides you)

What we are talking about is taxing the 1% or highest earners, closing some loopholes and generally having them pay their fair share.
If teachers are making over $100k, they should also be taxed.

Trump is the prime example of the fallacy of your arguments. He is personally profiting as president and now trying to implement tax policies that will profit him and his pals personally.
Trump doesn't employ people, he's a tv personality who sells only his brand to be stamped on businesses, yet you think he and people as rich as him, shouldn't have to pay taxes at all, since they will hire some suckers (and not pay them, as Trump is want) occasionally.

 

[JohnLarue]

Who has been talking about taxing small business owners?
(besides you)

Have you not been paying attention?
Justins is targeting those making over $150 K and that includes a ton of small business owners

What we are talking about is taxing the 1% or highest earners, closing some loopholes and generally having them pay their fair share.

Well it just happens the people who will be affected are doctors, dentists, Farmers and small business owners
They are the primary driver of employment in this country and will cut costs to make up for Justin's tax grab. That includes laying people off
I can not believe you do not understand this
Time to come out from behind your union and see what the real world is all about

If teachers are making over $100k, they should also be taxed.

You are missing the point
paying teachers far too much is typical of the inability of governments to control spending and has them grabbing for tax dollars where the should not. They will damage the economy

Trump is the prime example of the fallacy of your arguments. He is personally profiting as president and now trying to implement tax policies that will profit him and his pals personally.
Trump doesn't employ people, he's a tv personality who sells only his brand to be stamped on businesses, yet you think he and people as rich as him, shouldn't have to pay taxes at all, since they will hire some suckers (and not pay them, as Trump is want) occasionally.

Do not try and equate me with the clown that is the current US president
He is a bullshit artist and has zero integrity

Respond with a logical answer explaining how Justin's tax grab will not hurt small business or say nothing

 

[nottyboi]

You do not get it
Doctors , farmers , small business owners employ a lot of people
do you think they will absorb these extra burdens all to themselves
No
They will hire les people and lay employees off
But just so long as you et your pound of flesh from the rich, you are happy. A simple ideal for a simple person
Dolt

How many people do doctors hire? The admin and the pool boy to bang their wife? Horseshit. The greediest Drs may move, who needs them. Its really not as easy to move there as you think and establish yourself. Maybe we can replace them with British and French Drs with our much higher wages....

 

[nottyboi]

,... "Sweden has 285,000 millionaires they also have more billionaires percapita then the USA.",.... that's your idea of an equitable economic system,...???

,..."Swedens percaipta income is lower then the USA",....so by your logic,... socialism is not better than the US "capitalism" system.

Sweden has more even distribution of wealth. Its lower percapita GDP can be attributed to many factors. Its a much smaller country for one, and has far fewer natural resources and a more severe climate.

 

[JohnLarue]

I never said he's read any posts on terb. I just pointed out he endorsed sterilization and proved you entirely wrong.

That is impossible as he has not seen what you have proposed, He could not have proved me wrong as he is unaware of what I have proved.
His article is over 12 years old , Is he still alive?

You realized you lost the debate and started this pathetic clown show around has he read posts on terb -- I mean, just how fucking stupid is that? You've gone off the rails - kook!

I am the kook??
I am not the one who out of hand states he can re-negotiate NAFTA, redefine the bank of Canada, and just ignore any say Western Canada may have in order to solve what is onl precieved as an issue by you
That is the definition of kook
You must think vey highly of yourself. Too bad everyone thinks your a blowhard bullshit artist

I've pointed out to you before that's because no-one will invest in an unstable currency.

Nobody wants to invest in one that is being manipulated that is for sure
Pull you bullshit stunt and you will see investment money flyng out of the country
Canada has been a logical and safe place to invest, without your duel currency Ponzi scheme and will continue to be a logical and safe place to invest long after your idea has been laughed out of Ottawa

You just don't have the mental horsepower to understand that point. If you want business people to invest you need to create a healthy environment for that investment. Obviously this topic is beyond your ken.

No I understand very well what you have proposed, what I do not understand is how you can honestly believe anyone else would agree to it

Business is forward looking, idiot, investment decisions are made based on future returns. Not on sunk costs. You really don't have a clue.

yeah and if a business requires some damn idiot to manipulate the currency in order to generate returns there is a fundamental problem with that business.

You were saying something about not having a clue

The idea of penalizing one sector to support another may work in Commie China, but it will not fly here in free enterprise Canada

Do you ever think before posting? W're talking about Parliament enacting a policy here. You know that Canadian law is whatever Parliament wants it to be, right?

There are legal changes tot he government all the time and I guarantee you there would be challenges to your piece of shit idea

Why not stay on topic, and lose the debate, instead of going off on stupid tangents? Just own up to the fact that you're wrong instead of squirming like this.

stay on topic?
What exactly is the topic ? How ridiculous Fuji's plan is?, how it will never be permitted, ?
How about this: How illegal is it under NAFTA? It is prohibited
that should have needed this lunacy right there and then, but NOOOOOO you think you can re-negocaite NAFTA??? I am still laughing that that
You ae the poster boy for a clown who thinks others take him seriously

Nobody gives a fuck about your wrong opinion.

Well lets see, you got zero (nada, zip nobody) to agree with you (even after three years) , so I just do not buy that from you

But I will humour you, why would it not be politically and regionally divisive ?
Why would anyone west of Ontario even consider what you propose without rejecting it outright?
Come on genus, explain to us how you would sell this to an outraged Western Canada?

See the above comment about your ignorant and stupid opinion and how nobody cares about it.

You are the only one who supports your Brian dead idea, even after three years
More than a few have indicated your idea was a joke, so I appear to have more support than you
So lets get this right
Fuji your ignorant and stupid idea, nobody cares about it

Not in this case. You've gone full retard now. There's nothing in the Charter or anywhere else that would restrict Parliament from adopting any policy on foreign exchange it likes -- the law is whatever Parliament says it is. Parliament could do whatever it wants with our currency -- it could peg the CAD to Bitcoin, or put us back on the gold standard, or peg it to the USD, or set the exchange rate by fiat, or any other thing it wants to do. In this case, unlike those extremist ideas, Parliament would simply mandate a specific exchange rate for oil.

More ramblings of a fool who can not admit defeat despite not getting anyone to agree with him

If you don't like that, it's mathematically equivalent to setting up a national oil marketing board and requiring all private oil companies to sell through it to foreign entities.

Illegal under NAFAT and lily illegal under laws that govern competition

It would publish a price for oil based on the spot market price in the US based on a fixed exchange rate and then it would decide whether or not to convert the USD it to receives to CAD based on some parameters designed to limit currency impact. As a government agency it would have unlimited authority to borrow in CAD, while amassing a stockpile of USD. It would periodically pay down its CAD debt by converting its USD, at a steady and predictable rate advertised long enough in advance that there are no short-term shocks to the currency.

Totally unnecessary and politically and regionally divisive and finally it would not work as you envision it.
You are such an idiot

Either way the impact of oil is sterilized by controlling how many USD are converted to CAD.

Either way your Franken plan is never, ever ever going to be promoted by any Canadian politician as there is no way anyone is going to take on such a divisive idea
Why can you not understand this ?
Are you too Stupid or too arrogant to understand

Your ignorance and incompetence at English isn't an argument. There would only be one currency. You wind up with CAD both ways, and that dollar buys the same in any store in Canada no matter how you aquired it. There are not two currencies--this is just you being stupid and igonrant again.

No you do not because this will never ever see the light of day
your Franken plan is never, ever ever going to be promoted by any Canadian politician as there is no way anyone is going to take on such a divisive idea
Why can you not understand this ?
Are you too Stupid or too arrogant to understand

Wrong.

The rest of your post was just more inane sputter. You know fuck all about this topic and you prove it with every post.

I know enough to smell a turd which you promote as your idea
It is dead, a joke, a case study in what not to do for business students

Fuji the fool sitting in his corner wearing his dunce cap

 

[bver_hunter]

You do not get it
Doctors , farmers , small business owners employ a lot of people
do you think they will absorb these extra burdens all to themselves
No
They will hire les people and lay employees off
But just so long as you et your pound of flesh from the rich, you are happy. A simple ideal for a simple person
Dolt

Again you are coming up with the same nonsensical statement about Doctors, farmer, and small business owners yara, yara yara.
The government have clearly come out and said that two thirds of the businesses will not be affected. That includes the majority of farmers.
The ones who knowingly play the system and ensure that they pay virtually no taxes at all, even though they are earning more than $150,000 a year will be asked to pay their fair share. What is not fair about closing this type of loophole where they sprinkle the cash in the form of dividends to family members who are not involved in the business and restricting the private corporations to recover taxes from passive investments.
If they do not like the idea, which nation on this damn earth will allow them not to pay their fair share of taxes when they decide to leave Canada and emigrate there? You keep on coming up with this same nonsense all the time.

 

[FAST]

Sweden has more even distribution of wealth. Its lower percapita GDP can be attributed to many factors. Its a much smaller country for one, and has far fewer natural resources and a more severe climate.

Actually,... no.

I was responding to another members post,... that stated,...

,..."Sweden has 285,000 millionaires they also have more billionaires percapita then the USA."

Again,... how could that be an indication of,... "more even distribution of wealth"

And Sweden has a very high source of natural resources which its life style is highly dependant on,... oil for one.

Look,... I'm not knocking any thing about Sweden, industrious and produce spectacular blonds,...

But you have to also consider that North American middle class standard of living is much higher than Sweden's, if making comparisons.

 

[nottyboi]

Actually,... no.

I was responding to another members post,... that stated,...

,..."Sweden has 285,000 millionaires they also have more billionaires percapita then the USA."

Again,... how could that be an indication of,... "more even distribution of wealth"

And Sweden has a very high source of natural resources which its life style is highly dependant on,... oil for one.

Look,... I'm not knocking any thing about Sweden, industrious and produce spectacular blonds,...

But you have to also consider that North American middle class standard of living is much higher than Sweden's, if making comparisons.

Not all billionaires are created equal, someone worth a mere 1B does not compare to the Koch brothers, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet etc etc etc. The fact is, it is possible to get rich in Sweden, VERY rich (in response to Larue) but Effin Retarded batshit crazy rich is still more prevalent in the US. This is why Sweden has more billionaires and millionaires percapita while at the same time having more equitable distribution of wealth.

 

[Frankfooter]

Have you not been paying attention?
Justins is targeting those making over $150 K and that includes a ton of small business owners

If a small business owner is making $150K then they can afford to pay taxes.

Respond with a logical answer explaining how Justin's tax grab will not hurt small business or say nothing

The tax changes limit business owners from nepotism, from hiring family to spread income around.
How will that hurt businesses?
Do you really think small businesses are built on nepotism in the Trump model?

Closing the incorporation tax loop won't take make the business make less money, nor will capital gains changes. None of those will make a small business lose money, the only change is if the business owner is making a large enough income they'd have to pay their fair share of taxes for a change, the way most of the rest of the country does.

 

[JohnLarue]

If a small business owner is making $150K then they can afford to pay taxes.

Says you
You know diddly squat about running a business

Have you ever sweated not sure if you can meet payroll at the end of the week?
Have you ever worried that if a customer pays you late you can not pay your supplier ?
Have you ever wondered when a spell of bad luck means no orders yet you want to keep your employees busy ?
Have you ever sweated for weeks knowing if you do not get a contract, its all over?

You have a lot of nerve saying who can and who can pay certain amount of taxes
And at the same time you in your infinite wisdom declare 100K is what teachers are worth ?????

You really should spend time in the real world, because you do not have a good understanding of how the real economy functions

The tax changes limit business owners from nepotism, from hiring family to spread income around.
How will that hurt businesses?

Higher taxes are cash flows out of the business, less for the owner or less to spend on staff
Guess who will win that battle?

Do you really think small businesses are built on nepotism in the Trump model?

This has nothing to d with Trump
It is a Justin issue. Funny how he has never run a small business either
So save Trump for another thread

Closing the incorporation tax loop won't take make the business make less money, nor will capital gains changes. None of those will make a small business lose money,

It is cash flow out of the business and they will make it up mark my words
Less hiring, smaller raises

the only change is if the business owner is making a large enough income they'd have to pay their fair share of taxes for a change, the way most of the rest of the country does.

Then their income is not commensurate with the risk they are taking. Risks the rest of the country does not take
God you are stunned

Watch what happens to an economy when there are less and less risk takers
It will not be pretty

You really do not have a clue do you?
what cacoon do you work in?
Provincial, municipal or Federal

 

[JohnLarue]

Again you are coming up with the same nonsensical statement about Doctors, farmer, and small business owners yara, yara yara.
The government have clearly come out and said that two thirds of the businesses will not be affected. That includes the majority of farmers.

So most farmers make less than $150K ?
I do think so

1/3 of small business will be impacted ???
Jesus Christ that is huge amount
This will be worse than I thought
Do you have any idea how many jobs this will cost

The ones who knowingly play the system and ensure that they pay virtually no taxes at all, even though they are earning more than $150,000 a year will be asked to pay their fair share. What is not fair about closing this type of loophole where they sprinkle the cash in the form of dividends to family members who are not involved in the business and restricting the private corporations to recover taxes from passive investments.

1/3 of small business will get the screws put to them
what do you think their response will be?
they will not get by on less that's for sure
They will lay off employees

If they do not like the idea, which nation on this damn earth will allow them not to pay their fair share of taxes when they decide to leave Canada and emigrate there? You keep on coming up with this same nonsense all the time.

Or Justin could leave a system that has served Canada well for 40 years and devote himself to what he does best, spending others money and photo ops
For the economies sake keep him away from the taxation policy
Obviously he does not understand what is doing if he is messing with 1/3 of Canadian small businesses

 

[Frankfooter]

Says you
You know diddly squat about running a business

Have you ever sweated not sure if you can meet payroll at the end of the week?
Have you ever worried that if a customer pays you late you can not pay your supplier ?
Have you ever wondered when a spell of bad luck means no orders yet you want to keep your employees busy ?
Have you ever sweated for weeks knowing if you do not get a contract, its all over?

Larue, we were talking about people making in excess of $150k in a year, not people who are sweating to get by.
Stop trying to move the goalposts with every reply.

And stop with the personal insults, it reduces your arguments to looking weaker and more scared then FAST's.

 

[bver_hunter]

So most farmers make less than $150K ?
I do think so

1/3 of small business will be impacted ???
Jesus Christ that is huge amount
This will be worse than I thought
Do you have any idea how many jobs this will cost



1/3 of small business will get the screws put to them
what do you think their response will be?
they will not get by on less that's for sure
They will lay off employees





Or Justin could leave a system that has served Canada well for 40 years and devote himself to what he does best, spending others money and photo ops
For the economies sake keep him away from the taxation policy
Obviously he does not understand what is doing if he is messing with 1/3 of Canadian small businesses

You always catch the wrong end of the stick thanks to your partisan train of thought.
The one third of businesses that could be affected are only the ones playing the system. These are the ones that are using family members to be paid or being awarded dividends, although they may not be part of the business in any way. This is a tax dodge. They could end up paying even less taxes than their employees or those earning less than $50,000. Do you think that businesses can operate like this in any nation round the globe? You always use the nonsensical notion that they will reduce the employee counts. If a CEO / business owner of a company who earns $300,000 and pays $10,000 in tax as the rest of it is hidden in loopholes, is similar to his regular employee earning $50,000 and paying the same amount in taxes. Is this an acceptable system to you? Ohh your argument will be, that this CEO / business owner will now move to another country, or that 2 employees may lose their jobs, if the tax paid by the CEO / business owner is now $100,000, although he is still pocketing $200,000. No wonder that during the Steve Harpo reign the rich got richer while poverty was on the rise in Canada, and he continued to sing out of tune. The Canadians could not just stand by, but they walked out on him.

 

[fuji]

That is impossible as he has not seen what you have proposed, He could not have proved me wrong as he is unaware of what I have proved.
His article is over 12 years old , Is he still alive?

The reference proves the value of sterilization operations, which is not a concept invented by me, even though you may have heard about it first from me. That's mostly because in general you aren't familiar with economics or finance at all, not even at a basic level. And no, you declaring your expertise doesn't make you one: you need to demonstrate expertise, and you haven't. In fact, you haven't demonstrated even marginal awareness.

I am not the one who out of hand states he can re-negotiate NAFTA, redefine the bank of Canada,

Parliament can. End of that discussion.

No I understand very well what you have proposed, what I do not understand is how you can honestly believe anyone else would agree to it

You already proved you don't understand it.

The rest of your post was just mindless, not worth a response: you didn't provide any references, or cite any objective facts.

You think we should just believe you, but nobody does because we can see you know nothing about these topics. It was all just you declaring what your believe, without any reasons, and hurling insults.

You add nothing to this forum. You don't know the topics well enough.

 

[JohnLarue]

You always catch the wrong end of the stick thanks to your partisan train of thought.
The one third of businesses that could be affected are only the ones playing the system. These are the ones that are using family members to be paid or being awarded dividends, although they may not be part of the business in any way. This is a tax dodge. They could end up paying even less taxes than their employees or those earning less than $50,000. Do you think that businesses can operate like this in any nation round the globe?

It is legal and has worked well in Canada for 40 years

You always use the nonsensical notion that they will reduce the employee counts.

It sure as hell will
Prove it will not

If a CEO / business owner of a company who earns $300,000 and pays $10,000 in tax as the rest of it is hidden in loopholes, is similar to his regular employee earning $50,000 and paying the same amount in taxes. Is this an acceptable system to you?

that is a nonsense example
he would have to declare less than (approx) $50K in income to owe $10K in taxes
How you go from 300,000 to 50,000 is bullshit
this not happening at 1/3 of the small business in Canada

However in the extreme of your example if a business owner sees his tax bill going from $10K (as you say) to 57% of $300K = $171K , then he will lay people off and more than just one that is for sure
You do not think these issues through
You live in a black and white world were things are either right or they are wrong
The real world is more complicated than that

Given how he takes on all kinds of risks that you can not even fathom and employs more people than you do and given he has likely paid more taxes in a year then you have in a decade, I am all for him reducing his tax burden.
So he can reinvest in his business and hire more people

He will spend the money a whole lot more effectively than Justin will
That is for sure

Ohh your argument will be, that this CEO / business owner will now move to another country, or that 2 employees may lose their jobs, if the tax paid by the CEO / business owner is now $100,000, although he is still pocketing $200,000. No wonder that during the Steve Harpo reign the rich got richer while poverty was on the rise in Canada, and he continued to sing out of tune. The Canadians could not just stand by, but they walked out on him.

Your living in wonderland

Lets look at some real numbers
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/h_03018.html#point1-1

As of December 2015, there were 1.17 million employer businesses in Canada, as shown in Table 1.1-1. Of these, 1.14 million (97.9 percent) businesses were small businesses, 21,415 (1.8 percent) were medium-sized businesses and 2,933 (0.3 percent) were large enterprises.

So Justin is going to increase the tax burden on 1/3 of 97.9% of all Canadian business or approx. 350,000 business

If just one in three of those business lays off one employee or rejects their plan to hire an additional employee because of this extra burden that is over 110,000 lost jobs
How many extra will be lost because of the increased burden of meeting huge minimum wage increases is incremental Liberal damage

110,000 lost jobs = Justin's concept of "fairness"
There comes a time when one have to weigh one principals against the harse reality of peoples reactions to any (well intended, but misguided) actions
Sadly Justin is not that street smart and instead will stick to his principals and watch in horror as it goes terrible wrong

350,000 small businesses will not obediently absorb a much higher tax burden, without touching headcount
That is a guarantee

 

[JohnLarue]

The reference proves the value of sterilization operations, which is not a concept invented by me, even though you may have heard about it first from me. That's mostly because in general you aren't familiar with economics or finance at all, not even at a basic level. And no, you declaring your expertise doesn't make you one: you need to demonstrate expertise, and you haven't. In fact, you haven't demonstrated even marginal awareness.

Says the fool who has not been able to convince one other person his Franken plan is nothing more than a joke
Go away and come back when you have something which is not a ridiculous joke

Parliament can. End of that discussion.

Not end of discussion as you will never ever, ever get one MP to buy into your joke of a plan, let alone a majority
It is politically and regional divisive. In addition it is illegal under NAFTA. No Canadian politician will take that nightmare on.
I guarantee that
End of discussion

You already proved you don't understand it.

No I understand it
Where the understanding is missing is with you
Ie It is illegal under NAFTA would stop 99.9% of the population, but not Fuji the Fool who thinks he knows better than anyone else
You are a fool

The rest of your post was just mindless, not worth a response: you didn't provide any references, or cite any objective facts.

I have provide far more facts that you

All you have provided is your opinion and misrepresented a Noble Peace Prize winner by saying he endorses your Franken Plan
Your opinion here is worthless (less than worthless)

You think we should just believe you, but nobody does because we can see you know nothing about these topics.

You think we should just believe you because we should have the confidence that you can
1. change NAFTA with no downside,
2. redefine the Bank of Canada to police the oil industry
3. persuade Western Canada to accept an additional burden on their economy for the sake of Ontario's manufactures
4. Apply precision control to this Franken Plan with your throttle
???

Well Frankly Fuji, we do not have any confidence you can even admit when you are wrong (80,000+ posts and never once were you wrong)
So nobody has confidence in you and nobody ever will
That is why nobody here backed your Franken Plan (That and the fact it is ridiculous idea)

It was all just you declaring what your believe, without any reasons, and hurling insults.

Nope
This is about you Fuji
It is your nightmare of a plan and you get to wear it along with the dunce cap

Fuji the Fool sitting in the corner wearing his dunce cap

You add nothing to this forum. You don't know the topics well enough.

Well enough to recognise your plan as a smoldering turd of an idea

 

[JohnLarue]

Larue, we were talking about people making in excess of $150k in a year, not people who are sweating to get by.
Stop trying to move the goalposts with every reply.

And stop with the personal insults, it reduces your arguments to looking weaker and more scared then FAST's.

Your assuming you know what a small business owner should pay in taxes is an insult

Your assumption that $150K relieves everyone of the worry and sweat to get by is also an insult to those that really drive employment in this economy (small business owners)
Not by a long shot
this just reaffirms how little you truly understand economics and business

You want Justin to govern by polls
How would your poll results look if the question was

Please consider additional tax burdens on the rich may result in significant job losses
Are you in favour of the rich paying more taxes ?

More likely 10-15% would still be in favour and this whole mess would never have become a policy paper

It is a lot more complicated than your simplistic view and it is scary to think you make up your mind without considering any unintended consequences

You did not answer my question
what cocoon do you work in?
Provincial, municipal or Federal ?

 

[Frankfooter]

Your assuming you know what a small business owner should pay in taxes is an insult

Your assumption that small business owners should get tax breaks based off of loopholes applicable only to them is an insult to working Canadians.

 

[FAST]

Your assuming you know what a small business owner should pay in taxes is an insult

Your assumption that $150K relieves everyone of the worry and sweat to get by is also an insult to those that really drive employment in this economy (small business owners)
Not by a long shot
this just reaffirms how little you truly understand economics and business

You want Justin to govern by polls
How would your poll results look if the question was



More likely 10-15% would still be in favour and this whole mess would never have become a policy paper

It is a lot more complicated than your simplistic view and it is scary to think you make up your mind without considering any unintended consequences

You did not answer my question
what cocoon do you work in?
Provincial, municipal or Federal ?

150K is dick all for what small business owners put into their business, the risk, the hours of work, lack of government benefits,... what they add to employment stats,... plus they could loose everything over night.

The only ones who think that small business owners toping out at 150k shouldn't be give tax breaks,... are those who don't have the guts and drive to even attempt a startup,.... let alone survive one year in business.

 

[JohnLarue]

Your assumption that small business owners should get tax breaks based off of loopholes applicable only to them is an insult to working Canadians.

Since 97% of business are small business you can bet the farm that there will be less working Canadians to insult if these tax changes go through
Mark my words this will happen

By the way if 97% of businesses are small business then the "loopholes (I prefer the term legitimate tax planning) are essential applicable to 97 % (close to all) business. so no one is getting special treatment
the other 3%, large and medium business get support (Bombardier) which is not available to small business

You should focus on how the government can contain their costs, not on how they can extract more from the Canadian economy

You did not answer my question
what cocoon do you work in?
Provincial, municipal or Federal