Norwegian ruling party votes to ban circumcision for men under 16 years old
- Thread starter Smallcock
- Start date
You certainly would not have been an abolitionist back in the days of slavery. Most people thought it reasonable, so it must have been.
Grow a pair of balls or use common sense FFS. You're paid to THINK.
Another reason is namby pamby.
Also the type of apologetics, er, propaganda, seen in this thread.
Is the repetition of the word mutilation a form of self hypnotic brain washing?
Re the cost incentive not to get it done, that is an issue in other countries too.
How much does it cost in Canada vs the USA, the PI, S. Korea, & elsewhere where it is a common procedure?
The opposition to circumcision most likely arose from men who were circumcised and, later in life, felt they had been mutilated without consent. Whether we agree that cutting delicate genital tissue from an infant is mutilation or not, certainly men who had been cut and feel mutilated have a right to feel that way.
That's problematic enough. Fortunately it has morphed into a legitimate conversation about the physical autonomy of infants, too.
I'm "paid" - or in this case, not paid - to tell you what the law is. You didn't like the free advice.
I don't have a dog in the circumcision race. So that doesn't make me an abolitionist or a defender of the practice. I don't have a male child and have not thought about the issue.
I have strong feelings about a number of other legal issues regarding which I would like to see the laws changed. Circumcision is not one of those issues.
So your little attempt to avenge yourself on me for the number of times I have criticized you has fallen rather flat. Better luck next time, Smally.
Feelings make for extremely poor apologetics or basis for beliefs.
All kinds of people with ridiculous or sick "feelings" have a God given "right to feel that way".
Perhaps they should be exploring the real cause of how they "feel" with a shrink. It could be they have mommy or daddy issues that are leading them to lash out & that's the entire basis for their "mutilation" remarks rather than anything rational, logical or scientific. IOW they may be irrationally projecting what is the real problem (parents) onto something that isn't (namely, circumcision) & they are just using to express their "feelings" re parents.
The laws always weigh rights vs harm. Female genital mutilation is shown to have significant harm. Male circumcision doesn't.
Where did you get the reference about men who felt they had been mutilated without consent?
I call bullshit on that one.
One reason for circumcision is that in quite a few cases in later years, the foresking becomes too tight around the glans. Once this becomes a problem, you then have an adolescent or adult going though an embarrassing and painful experience of circumcision at a later age.
Being circumcised myself, I find that being so has advantages. In fact, I find the uncut penis looks ugly compared to a circumcized one (not that I'm gay. I'm, not), and more of a maintenance problem.
But I guess that you're not circumcized. Trying to convince me that I was somehow wronged in my childhood? I'm perfectly happy the way I am. I don't feel that my happiness has been taken away from me.... far from it.
Every woman except for two that I've ever fucked where the subject of cut or uncut came up said they preferred cut.....That's where the discussion ended for me. Less maintenance and more happy ladies sucking the shiny head. Done deal.
Where is this maintenance problem? Lmao Is taking regular showers is a maintenance problem?
Describe to us what it feels like to be circumcise without anesthesia. Did you feel any pain when the surgeon separated your foreskin from around the head? Because when we are born they are still connected thats why they need to scoop around inside to tear apart their infusion. And what about the actual cutting part did it hurt at all? Do you recall going into shock around that stage?
that's haresay
http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/bensley1/
THE NEW ZEALAND
MEDICAL JOURNAL
Vol 116 No 1181 ISSN 1175 8716 shield
Effects of male circumcision on female arousal and orgasm
While vaginal dryness is considered an indicator for female sexual arousal disorder,1,2 male circumcision may exacerbate female vaginal dryness during intercourse.3 O'Hara and O'Hara reported that women who had experienced coitus with both intact and circumcised men preferred intact partners by a ratio of 8.6 to one.4 Most women (85.5%) in that survey reported that they were more likely to experience orgasm with a genitally intact partner: `They [surveyed women] were also more likely to report that vaginal secretions lessened as coitus progressed with their circumcised partners (16.75, 6.88–40.77).' 4
Presence of the movable foreskin makes a difference in foreplay, being more arousing to the female.4 Women reported they were about twice as likely to experience orgasm if the male partner had a foreskin.4 The impact of male circumcision on vaginal dryness during coitus required further investigation.
We conducted a survey of 35 female sexual partners aged 18 to 69 years who had experienced sexual intercourse with both circumcised and genitally intact men.
Participants completed a 35-item sexual awareness survey. Women reported they were significantly more likely to have experienced vaginal dryness during intercourse with circumcised than with genitally intact men c 2 (df = 1, n = 20) = 5.0, p <0.05.5
Women who preferred a circumcised male sexual partner averaged 27.3 years of age (SD = 8.2), while those whose stated preference was for a genitally intact partner had a mean age of 36.4 years (SD = 13.7). Thus, the role of the male foreskin in preventing loss of vaginal lubrication during intercourse may become more discernible with increasing age among women. We reported:
`During intercourse, the skin of an intact penis slides up and down the shaft, stimulating the glans and the nerves of the inner and outer foreskin. On the outstroke, the glans is partially or completely engulfed by the foreskin with more skin remaining inside the vagina than is the case with the circumcised penis. This `valve' mechanism is thought to retain the natural lubrication provided by the female because the bunched up skin acts to block the lubrication escaping from the vagina, which results in dryness.'5
Our work, which supports the hypothesis of Warren and Bigelow3 and the findings of O'Hara and O'Hara 4 about the role of the male prepuce during coitus is fully reported in Denniston et al.5
Research generally has not considered possible adverse effects of male circumcision upon female sexual arousal and response. While Moynihan reported that vibratory thresholds, blood flow and hormone levels were studied,1 there was no mention of circumcision status of the male partner. Likewise, Leiblum failed to control for male circumcision status.2 In light of published findings,4,5 this is a serious methodological omission.
Most likely, reported vaginal dryness and the related clinical designation `female arousal disorder' is but a normal female response to coitus with a man with an iatrogenically deficient penis.5
It is imperative that future studies of female arousal disorder record and control the circumcision status of male sexual partners.
Gillian A Bensley
Gregory J Boyle
Department of Psychology
Bond University, QLD, Australia
References:
Moynihan R. The making of a disease: female sexual dysfunction. BMJ 2003;326:45–7.
Leiblum SR. Arousal disorders in women: complaints and complexities. Med J Aust 2003;178:638–40.
Warren J, Bigelow J. The case against circumcision. Br J Sex Med 1994;Sept/Oct:6–8.
O'Hara K, O'Hara J. The effect of male circumcision on the sexual enjoyment of the female partner. BJU Int 1999;83 Suppl 1:79–84.
Bensley GA, Boyle GJ. Physical, sexual, and psychological effects of male infant circumcision: an exploratory survey. In: Denniston GC, Hodges FM, Milos MF, editors. Understanding circumcision: a multi-disciplinary approach to a multi-dimensional problem. New York: Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers; 2001. p. 207–39.
http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/bensley1/
They tell you that because you're cut.
Except for English speaking North America and Muslimland, the vast majority of males on the planet are "natural".
Circumcision and voilence against women
http://www.circumcision.org/harmswomen.htm
EFFECTS ON SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS
To understand how circumcision may impair women's sexual relationships with men, we need to learn about the foreskin. Christopher Cold, M.D., Chairman of Anatomical Pathology at the Marshfield Clinic in Marshfield, Wisconsin, has studied and written about the foreskin. "It has important functions. The foreskin protects the head of the penis throughout life from contamination, friction, drying, and injury. It is an integral, natural part of the penis, not 'extra.' On the average adult male it is about twelve square inches [some circumcised men guess less than one square inch], and it consists of a movable, double-layered sleeve. The foreskin enhances sexual pleasure. Detailed study shows that it is made up of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to natural sexual function and experiencing the full range of sexual sensations."
Loss of the foreskin results in thickening and progressive desensitization of the outer layer of the head of the penis, particularly in older men. Some men circumcised as adults report a significant loss of sensitivity and regret the change. Circumcision may be an unrecognized factor in the high rates of erectile dysfunction in American men, which would involve associated psychological effects. Of course, any sexual and associated psychological effects on men would affect women.
Women who have only had sex with circumcised men may not know what they are missing. According to surveys in the medical literature, women reported that they were significantly more likely to have vaginal dryness during intercourse with circumcised men than genitally intact men. A medical journal survey of women who had comparative sexual experience included 138 responses. Other things being equal, on a scale of ten, they rated genitally intact men 8.03 and circumcised men 1.81. With circumcised partners, women were less likely to have one or multiple vaginal orgasms, and their circumcised partners were more likely to have a premature ejaculation. Circumcision was also connected with vaginal discomfort. Women were less likely to "really get into it" and more likely to "want to get it over with" if their partner was circumcised.
The results can be explained. The foreskin, as previously mentioned, is a movable, double-layered sleeve. During intercourse, it glides up and down the penile shaft, reducing friction and retaining vaginal secretions. Without the foreskin, the skin on the penile shaft rubs against the vaginal wall, resulting in friction and increasing the need for artificial lubrication. The circumcised man has less sensitivity and requires deeper and harder thrusting to try to compensate, further increasing the friction.
With circumcised partners, surveyed women were more likely to feel unappreciated, distanced, disinterested, frustrated, and discontented. When their partners were not circumcised, women were more likely to feel intimate with their partners, relaxed, warmth, mutual satisfaction, and "complete as a woman," and the greater sexual satisfaction benefited the relationship. To be clear, this does not mean that women cannot have a satisfying emotional and sexual relationship with a circumcised man. Other things being equal, it means that such a relationship may be likely to be even more satisfying if the man were not circumcised.
MALE ABUSES TOWARD WOMEN
It is possible to compare circumcision rates by country to prevalence of male abuses toward women that include violence, repression, isolation, murder, rape, and forced marriage. The ten worst countries for women are Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Nepal, Sudan, Guatemala, Mali, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Somalia. Eight of these countries have a male circumcision rate that exceeds 80%. Two other countries have a rate between 20% and 80%.
In the United States, domestic violence is the single greatest cause of injury to women. Every fifteen seconds a man beats a women. Low self-esteem can contribute to this behavior. Men low in self-esteem are more prone to jealously in their relationships. Jealously is a precipitating factor in violence toward women. Predictably, low male self-esteem, a possible effect of circumcision, correlates with a high risk of domestic violence. It has also been documented that exposure to violence in childhood is linked to later spousal abuse. The child experiences circumcision as violent. Those who have been violated generally have a problem with anger and may direct it at others.
The association between circumcision rates and abuses toward women could be related to the long-term psychological effects of circumcision on men which, in addition to low self-esteem and anger, include disruption in the mother-male child relationship, post-traumatic stress disorder, weakened relationships with women, and low empathy. More research is needed.
http://www.circumcision.org/harmswomen.htm
EFFECTS ON SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS
To understand how circumcision may impair women's sexual relationships with men, we need to learn about the foreskin. Christopher Cold, M.D., Chairman of Anatomical Pathology at the Marshfield Clinic in Marshfield, Wisconsin, has studied and written about the foreskin. "It has important functions. The foreskin protects the head of the penis throughout life from contamination, friction, drying, and injury. It is an integral, natural part of the penis, not 'extra.' On the average adult male it is about twelve square inches [some circumcised men guess less than one square inch], and it consists of a movable, double-layered sleeve. The foreskin enhances sexual pleasure. Detailed study shows that it is made up of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to natural sexual function and experiencing the full range of sexual sensations."
Loss of the foreskin results in thickening and progressive desensitization of the outer layer of the head of the penis, particularly in older men. Some men circumcised as adults report a significant loss of sensitivity and regret the change. Circumcision may be an unrecognized factor in the high rates of erectile dysfunction in American men, which would involve associated psychological effects. Of course, any sexual and associated psychological effects on men would affect women.
Women who have only had sex with circumcised men may not know what they are missing. According to surveys in the medical literature, women reported that they were significantly more likely to have vaginal dryness during intercourse with circumcised men than genitally intact men. A medical journal survey of women who had comparative sexual experience included 138 responses. Other things being equal, on a scale of ten, they rated genitally intact men 8.03 and circumcised men 1.81. With circumcised partners, women were less likely to have one or multiple vaginal orgasms, and their circumcised partners were more likely to have a premature ejaculation. Circumcision was also connected with vaginal discomfort. Women were less likely to "really get into it" and more likely to "want to get it over with" if their partner was circumcised.
The results can be explained. The foreskin, as previously mentioned, is a movable, double-layered sleeve. During intercourse, it glides up and down the penile shaft, reducing friction and retaining vaginal secretions. Without the foreskin, the skin on the penile shaft rubs against the vaginal wall, resulting in friction and increasing the need for artificial lubrication. The circumcised man has less sensitivity and requires deeper and harder thrusting to try to compensate, further increasing the friction.
With circumcised partners, surveyed women were more likely to feel unappreciated, distanced, disinterested, frustrated, and discontented. When their partners were not circumcised, women were more likely to feel intimate with their partners, relaxed, warmth, mutual satisfaction, and "complete as a woman," and the greater sexual satisfaction benefited the relationship. To be clear, this does not mean that women cannot have a satisfying emotional and sexual relationship with a circumcised man. Other things being equal, it means that such a relationship may be likely to be even more satisfying if the man were not circumcised.
MALE ABUSES TOWARD WOMEN
It is possible to compare circumcision rates by country to prevalence of male abuses toward women that include violence, repression, isolation, murder, rape, and forced marriage. The ten worst countries for women are Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Nepal, Sudan, Guatemala, Mali, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Somalia. Eight of these countries have a male circumcision rate that exceeds 80%. Two other countries have a rate between 20% and 80%.
In the United States, domestic violence is the single greatest cause of injury to women. Every fifteen seconds a man beats a women. Low self-esteem can contribute to this behavior. Men low in self-esteem are more prone to jealously in their relationships. Jealously is a precipitating factor in violence toward women. Predictably, low male self-esteem, a possible effect of circumcision, correlates with a high risk of domestic violence. It has also been documented that exposure to violence in childhood is linked to later spousal abuse. The child experiences circumcision as violent. Those who have been violated generally have a problem with anger and may direct it at others.
The association between circumcision rates and abuses toward women could be related to the long-term psychological effects of circumcision on men which, in addition to low self-esteem and anger, include disruption in the mother-male child relationship, post-traumatic stress disorder, weakened relationships with women, and low empathy. More research is needed.
Unless you're a person that is into circumcised child dick porn, why have a baby circumcised? 16 is a good age to let a young male who has been sexually educated and seen hundreds of porn clip to DECIDE whether or not to have it done...with an employed anesthesiologists present during the operation....And the hospital will have a much larger foreskin to sell.
I bet they told you that you're smart and funny, too?
Muslim men appear to find circumcised female genitals more attractive than uncircumcised. This means it should be a done deal?
I think it's terrific that you're happy. I'm saying what is wrong with waiting until the age of 16 for the procedure? I'm not opposed to circumcision at all - those who want to get cut have my blessings. I'm Pro-Choice Circumcision. I'm opposed to when and why it's done in most instances - in infancy and without consent for religious or aesthetic purposes. Again, why not allow the target of the operation have input into it?
