Putin/Comey win
- Thread starter fuji
- Start date
S
**Sophie**
Here is the reality. Sending Hilary and/or Bill to jail has huge national and political ramifications that have to be considered.There are people sitting in jail, like right now, for doing less, will they be let out or pardoned? Why should Hillary or Bill be given a pass? Will they pardon Bill too?
Here is one of President Clinton's controversial pardons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy
"Marc Rich, a fugitive who had fled the U.S. during his prosecution, was residing in Switzerland. Rich owed $48 million in taxes and was charged with 51 counts of tax fraud, was pardoned of tax evasion. He was required to pay a $1 million fine and waive any use of the pardon as a defense against any future civil charges that were filed against him in the same case. Critics complained that Denise Eisenberg Rich, his former wife, had made substantial donations to both the Clinton library and to Mrs. Clinton's senate campaign. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels (640,000 m[SUP]3[/SUP]) of oil.[SUP][23][/SUP] Longtime Clinton supporters and Democratic leaders such as former President Jimmy Carter, James Carville and Terry McAuliffe, were all critical of the Clinton pardon. Carter said the pardons were "disgraceful." BTW: There a rumour that one of the conditions of the pardon is Marc Rich promised to never ever return to these United States while alive.
S
**Sophie**
That's a horrible example. Bill pardoned Rich because he or his wife at the time, was a donator to Clinton's campaign. Someone worthy of a pardon imo, Julian Assange, since he is being held for 4 years without any charges.Here is the reality. Sending Hilary and/or Bill to jail has huge national and political ramifications that have to be considered.
Here is one of President Clinton's controversial pardons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy
"Marc Rich, a fugitive who had fled the U.S. during his prosecution, was residing in Switzerland. Rich owed $48 million in taxes and was charged with 51 counts of tax fraud, was pardoned of tax evasion. He was required to pay a $1 million fine and waive any use of the pardon as a defense against any future civil charges that were filed against him in the same case. Critics complained that Denise Eisenberg Rich, his former wife, had made substantial donations to both the Clinton library and to Mrs. Clinton's senate campaign. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels (640,000 m[SUP]3[/SUP]) of oil.[SUP][23][/SUP] Longtime Clinton supporters and Democratic leaders such as former President Jimmy Carter, James Carville and Terry McAuliffe, were all critical of the Clinton pardon. Carter said the pardons were "disgraceful." BTW: There a rumour that one of the conditions of the pardon is Marc Rich promised to never ever return to these United States while alive.
https://justice4assange.com/UN-Working-Group-on-Arbitrary.html
On Friday 5 February 2016, the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention (WGAD) announced its decision finding that the detention of Julian Assange is unlawful. The United Nations Working Group has ordered that he be released immediately and compensated by Sweden and the United Kingdom. Julian Assange’s petition was filed in September 2014.
There are those I know who disagree, but on the political level I see a significant amount of "you broke it you bought it." This happened under President Obama, he was the one who appointed HRC, it was his staff who failed to keep adequate tabs on her. Sorry but he needs to "pony up" and take the hit for pardoning her.
S
**Sophie**
You know what Ardy, you're absolutely right. didn't even think about that. It was on Obama's watch, but Trump will take the fall for it if Trump does it, like usual.There are those I know who disagree, but on the political level I see a significant amount of "you broke it you bought it." This happened under President Obama, he was the one who appointed HRC, it was his staff who failed to keep adequate tabs on her. Sorry but he needs to "pony up" and take the hit for pardoning her.
Last I checked, the POTUS can't pardon a person for charges in another country.That's a horrible example. Bill pardoned Rich because he or his wife at the time, was a donator to Clinton's campaign. Someone worthy of a pardon imo, Julian Assange, since he is being held for 4 years without any charges.
https://justice4assange.com/UN-Working-Group-on-Arbitrary.html
And no, he isn't being held without charges, he is hiding so charges can't be pressed. If he had actually had the decency to face the charges the whole thing would have been over by now.
p.s. I find it amusing that suddenly the right adores the guy; just a few years ago they were saying the guy a monster and should have been killed.
Again, there is nothing to pardon her for.There are those I know who disagree, but on the political level I see a significant amount of "you broke it you bought it." This happened under President Obama, he was the one who appointed HRC, it was his staff who failed to keep adequate tabs on her. Sorry but he needs to "pony up" and take the hit for pardoning her.
And as I said before, after a couple months of Trump promising to lock her up, he can't go back on his word and pardon her without pissing of his base constituents.
It's the Republicans who will take a hit if they keep up with frivolous, persecutory prosecutions.There are those I know who disagree, but on the political level I see a significant amount of "you broke it you bought it." This happened under President Obama, he was the one who appointed HRC, it was his staff who failed to keep adequate tabs on her. Sorry but he needs to "pony up" and take the hit for pardoning her.
S
**Sophie**
Well whatever power the US has right now by holding him there, because if he goes one way to Sweden, he will be sent back to the US because that's the deal the US made with Sweden, same deal if he goes the other way through the UK. He can't move because of the American Government ONLY; So whatever it takes to undo that, how's that sound? He should be okay to leave and go home to his wife and kids, you know, since he's not charged with anything?!Last I checked, the POTUS can't pardon a person for charges in another country.
And no, he isn't being held without charges, he is hiding so charges can't be pressed. If he had actually had the decency to face the charges the whole thing would have been over by now.
p.s. I find it amusing that suddenly the right adores the guy; just a few years ago they were saying the guy a monster and should have been killed.
I'm not the only one who thinks the way I do:
From the Lawfare Blog: https://www.lawfareblog.com/sake-nation-obama-should-pardon-clinton
From the Lawfare Blog: https://www.lawfareblog.com/sake-nation-obama-should-pardon-clinton
Sophie, I really don't know why people say this. The U.K. - U.S.A. relationship and extradition treaty is far stronger than the Swedish - U.S. relationship and extradition treaty.Well whatever power the US has right now by holding him there, because if he goes one way to Sweden, he will be sent back to the US because that's the deal the US made with Sweden, same deal if he goes the other way through the UK, so whatever it takes to undo that, how's that sound? He should be okay to leave and go home to his wife and kids.
1) The US isn't doing anything. The UK police are waiting to enforce a warrant for the Swedish courts. That laughable UN panel didn't even mention the US.Well whatever power the US has right now by holding him there, because if he goes to Sweden, he will be sent back to the US because that's the deal they have, so whatever it takes to undo that, how's that? He should be okay to come to the United States if he wants but he can't.
2) The extradition thing is a conspiracy theory. The US has absolutely no sway over Sweden which is a fairly leftist state. The US has no charges against him for Sweden to examine and even if for some reason Sweden was willing to honour a US extradition request it would have to wait until his trial on rape charges and any time was served.
3) Just a year or two ago it was the left like frankfooter who were complaining about his detention and the right who were calling for his blood.
Quite simply Assange is an ultra-leftist with a martyr complex.
Entirely true as to both points.Last I checked, the POTUS can't pardon a person for charges in another country.
And no, he isn't being held without charges, he is hiding so charges can't be pressed. If he had actually had the decency to face the charges the whole thing would have been over by now..
Also batting .300 as to ^
S
**Sophie**
If I understand you correctly, yes I think that's why he would rather go through Sweden, but Sweden won't guarantee not to extradite him, and since '2000 they have 100 percent extraiditon rate. So to me, the problem lies with the US and I hope Trump can fix that somehow.Sophie, I really don't know why people say this. The U.K. - U.S.A. relationship and extradition treaty is far stronger than the Swedish - U.S. relationship and extradition treaty.
What is he being charged with? Not the sexual assault thing because that was proven to be false.
Julian Assange interview last week
S
**Sophie**
Nobody home? What are his charges do you know?Entirely true as to both points.
Also batting .300 as to ^
The right has all the power now, so we'll see them fuck up and show their true corrupt selves. They'll help the rich and disappoint the rest. Then maybe some real change with a younger Bernie type will arise from the ashes. Unless Trump is so bad that society just breaks down beyond repair.As I've said elsewhere, I'm actually in favour of the Democrats running a true leftist candidate. That would forever disabuse that wing of the party of the idea that such views could ever find favour with the majority of Americans.
Sanders would not have won the election. He would have won a personal likeability contest with Trump.
There are an awful lot of people in the US right now who still need to check in with reality.
Last I checked, "proven" means having gone through a trial and being found not guilty. Since Assange is still hiding from the legals system it's a bullshit claim....
What is he being charged with? Not the sexual assault thing because that was proven to be false....
As it is, Sweden has legally supported charges against him that he is hiding from and the US has nothing to do with it.
S
**Sophie**
Again, what are his charges? I know the answer, there are none, but I want you to tell me since you know so much.Last I checked, "proven" means having gone through a trial and being found not guilty. Since Assange is still hiding from the legals system it's a bullshit claim.
As it is, Sweden has legally supported charges against him that he is hiding from and the US has nothing to do with it.
Allegations of sexual assault. Many have looked at the charges and questioned them. The big deal is Sweden has an extradition treaty with the USA. So whether or not he actually faces charges if he appears on Swedish soil they can pick him up and turn him over.Again, what are his charges? I know the answer, there are none, but I want you to tell me since you know so much.
It's how he ended up in the embassy in London. Ecuador doesn't have a treaty.
