Well I for one am not laughing. This kid has a ton of talent, but, he is a kid with limited experience. He rose through the Blue Jays ranks very quickly and now has hit a bump in his career, time to take a step back and work things out. 5 innings for a starter does not cut it. His last few games he has been inconsistent, can't locate, getting hit hard. Doc Halliday went back to the minors, found his game and became a star. Stroman needs to pitch in an environment where he can work on his game. Bring Hutch up, and lets find out if he has learned anything in AAA.
Blue Jays: 2016 Edition
- Thread starter Perry Mason
- Start date
He needs to get back into formCan you explain to me why you send him to triple AAA or put him in the pen????
His cutter is his out pitch but it is not working
It sets up everything else
He is missing with it so he needs to get back into a groove
Why not let him work on it in Buffalo ?
We need our best pitchers and right now he is not one of them
Gregg Zaun agrees with sending him down and he was a pro catcherWell I for one am not laughing. This kid has a ton of talent, but, he is a kid with limited experience. He rose through the Blue Jays ranks very quickly and now has hit a bump in his career, time to take a step back and work things out. 5 innings for a starter does not cut it. His last few games he has been inconsistent, can't locate, getting hit hard. Doc Halliday went back to the minors, found his game and became a star. Stroman needs to pitch in an environment where he can work on his game. Bring Hutch up, and lets find out if he has learned anything in AAA.
Has Gibby said anything about sending him down?
Zaun is also very critical of some of the pitch selection-I get the impression he is throwing Martin under the bus some days. Let's not forget that Zaun had a few okay years in Toronto but had an average career at best. Don't know how that makes hos opinion valuable. At this point I think his value is in the entertainment, kind of like the Don Cherry of baseball.Gregg Zaun agrees with sending him down and he was a pro catcher
Has Gibby said anything about sending him down?
Can you explain to me why you send him to triple AAA or put him in the pen????
That's kind of what happens to ineffective pitchers. I guess the option would be to release him, not sure if that's your proposal. I guess you could keep running him out there-maybe pitch him first in each series and then ambush the opposition with real major league pitching after. They may never adjust.
That is why I value his opinionLet's not forget that Zaun had a few okay years in Toronto but had an average career at best. Don't know how that makes hos opinion valuable. .
He could not rely on talent alone so he studied the game to make up for lack of talent and became a success
A superstar's opinion is less valuable, IMHO as they can just do it
Example is Bubba Watson
Never had a golf lesson yet can make the games best shots that no one else can
I would not want him as a teacher as he can just do it and has no deep knowledge of the golf swing
I would prefer a golfer of less talent but made it as a pro because he studied swing mechanics to teach me
Such a person is Zaun
Not sure that makes him brilliant, perhaps he had lots of talent but was an idiot so didn't use his talent. Could go either way because there is no definitve measure of talent.That is why I value his opinion
He could not rely on talent alone so he studied the game to make up for lack of talent and became a success
A superstar's opinion is less valuable, IMHO as they can just do it
Example is Bubba Watson
Never had a golf lesson yet can make the games best shots that no one else can
I would not want him as a teacher as he can just do it and has no deep knowledge of the golf swing
I would prefer a golfer of less talent but made it as a pro because he studied swing mechanics to teach me
Such a person is Zaun
Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with Zaun but to equate the quality of anyone's playing career with their knowledge of the game (any pro sport, actually) is blatantly wrong.Zaun is also very critical of some of the pitch selection-I get the impression he is throwing Martin under the bus some days. Let's not forget that Zaun had a few okay years in Toronto but had an average career at best. Don't know how that makes hos opinion valuable. At this point I think his value is in the entertainment, kind of like the Don Cherry of baseball.
How "great" were the playing careers of Tony LaRussa or Sparky Anderson (played a lot of AAA ball for the Toronto Maple Leafs) or Earl Weaver etc., etc? Conversely, Gretzky sucked as a coach.
What happens is that the great players have natural talents (like Gretzky's vision) that cannot be taught. The players who are career strugglers have to be strong students of their game just to stay in the mix. That is why the best managers in most sports have had mediocre careers.That is why I value his opinion
He could not rely on talent alone so he studied the game to make up for lack of talent and became a success
A superstar's opinion is less valuable, IMHO as they can just do it
Example is Bubba Watson
Never had a golf lesson yet can make the games best shots that no one else can
I would not want him as a teacher as he can just do it and has no deep knowledge of the golf swing
I would prefer a golfer of less talent but made it as a pro because he studied swing mechanics to teach me
Such a person is Zaun
I advocated Stroman going to the bullpen as opposed to AAA for two reasons:
1. Hutch is pitching well and he has 30 career ML wins. He is likely to pitch better than an ERA of 7.50 and a WHIP of 1.8 which is what Sto has been doing for the past 8 starts, losing 6 of those.
2. We lost Gavin Floyd and Sto is better than the cast of spare parts that we shuttle back from Buffalo.
I don't think waiting him work it out while we lose his starts is a good option. Now we're 5 games behind Bal. guess some people don't mind losing.
1. Hutch is pitching well and he has 30 career ML wins. He is likely to pitch better than an ERA of 7.50 and a WHIP of 1.8 which is what Sto has been doing for the past 8 starts, losing 6 of those.
2. We lost Gavin Floyd and Sto is better than the cast of spare parts that we shuttle back from Buffalo.
I don't think waiting him work it out while we lose his starts is a good option. Now we're 5 games behind Bal. guess some people don't mind losing.
I didn't equate the quality of his career his knowledge of the game. I did state that I didn't know if his career made his opinion valuabel. A poor career doesn't mean he has any better knowledge of the game than others, either.Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with Zaun but to equate the quality of anyone's playing career with their knowledge of the game (any pro sport, actually) is blatantly wrong.
How "great" were the playing careers of Tony LaRussa or Sparky Anderson (played a lot of AAA ball for the Toronto Maple Leafs) or Earl Weaver etc., etc? Conversely, Gretzky sucked as a coach.
losing his starts? his starts lately have not been quality starts, so, IMO, I would rather see what Hutch can do. Hutch's start earlier this year was decent and if that were to continue it would be an improvement on Stroman, if he sucks then were back at square 1.I advocated Stroman going to the bullpen as opposed to AAA for two reasons:
1. Hutch is pitching well and he has 30 career ML wins. He is likely to pitch better than an ERA of 7.50 and a WHIP of 1.8 which is what Sto has been doing for the past 8 starts, losing 6 of those.
2. We lost Gavin Floyd and Sto is better than the cast of spare parts that we shuttle back from Buffalo.
I don't think waiting him work it out while we lose his starts is a good option. Now we're 5 games behind Bal. guess some people don't mind losing.
If you send Stroman to the bullpen, it will change his pitching style, that is to say that now he has a number of pitches he throws, as a reliever he will probably be down to a fastball and two breaking/off speed pitches. The other problem with him in the bullpen is if you want him to start you will need to stretch him out. if he goes to AAA he can try to work on what the Jays see as his pitching problems, I doubt he can get things corrected working as a starter in the majors.
As for losing, no one likes it, there is a problem and it has to be fixed, different people see different ways to fix it. It will be interesting to see what the Jays decide. I doubt they are reading this or give a rat's ass what you and I think.
Agreed with you there.losing his starts? his starts lately have not been quality starts, so, IMO, I would rather see what Hutch can do. Hutch's start earlier this year was decent and if that were to continue it would be an improvement on Stroman, if he sucks then were back at square 1.
Agree to some extent there too. Just saying our bullpen is also in trouble and ya never who will find success in the mid-relief.If you send Stroman to the bullpen, it will change his pitching style, that is to say that now he has a number of pitches he throws, as a reliever he will probably be down to a fastball and two breaking/off speed pitches. The other problem with him in the bullpen is if you want him to start you will need to stretch him out. if he goes to AAA he can try to work on what the Jays see as his pitching problems, I doubt he can get things corrected working as a starter in the majors.
It's definitely easier to see which starters will be good and which closers will do well. But middle relievers are a crap shoot, a numbers game. Case in point, Cecil was struggling like a mofo last May, then proceeded to end the season without giving up an ER over his last 35 outings.
Cecil, Delabar, Jassen were AS at one point but struggled before and after.
If Stro turns it around and he needs to be stretched back out to starter, then it would probably take him 2 outings in AAA to get back. But first things first, let's get him out of his funk; right now, he is no good to us starting in ML games.
Can you explain to me why you send him to triple AAA or put him in the pen????
Of course Stroman nowhere near being the ace right now but others have stepped up.
If you watched Zauno's postgame commentary last night he suggested a (temporary) AAA move was the right move for Stroman.
Let him work some stuff out down in Buffalo, cause he's clearly losing it
What would you do with him then?? Leave him as a starter??
He's clearly becoming a liability now
Stroman needs to pitch in an environment where he can work on his game. .
That's kind of what happens to ineffective pitchers. .
Hey BBL, have we answered your question? Seems you're a little clued out about baseball...I advocated Stroman going to the bullpen as opposed to AAA for two reasons:
so your question is, what would I do with a pitcher that still has winning record right now, who had a good start two starts ago, not to mention his last start wasn't that bad (not great, but not bad) and prior to this little rough patch was terrific? The answer is simple, I give him a longer leash and let him try to work it out. I wouldn't be bringing up Drew Hutchinson to replace him.That's kind of what happens to ineffective pitchers. I guess the option would be to release him, not sure if that's your proposal. I guess you could keep running him out there-maybe pitch him first in each series and then ambush the opposition with real major league pitching after. They may never adjust.
"ambush the opposition with real major league pitching"??? Seriously??? There are 150 starting pitchers baseball right now, Stroman is currently 92nd in ERA with a winning record. The starting pitchers from 80-92 have marginal differences in their stats, so you could basically say he's in the middle of the pack.
You don't send him down to AAA or the bullpen at this point. Your giving him way to short of a leash, especially since there is nobody to replace him with. Not sure what to tell you, or Greg Zaun for that matter, but it's just plain dumb.
yes, with idiotic answers that have no substance to them.Hey BBL, have we answered your question?..
yes, with idiotic answers that have no substance to them.
ouh, insulting the majority opinion. Sucks to be the only one with the "truth and substance", eh.
Where to start... no one is agruing his good start.so your question is, what would I do with a pitcher that still has winning record right now, who had a good start two starts ago, not to mention his last start wasn't that bad (not great, but not bad) and prior to this little rough patch was terrific? The answer is simple, I give him a longer leash and let him try to work it out. I wouldn't be bringing up Drew Hutchinson to replace him.
"ambush the opposition with real major league pitching"??? Seriously??? There are 150 starting pitchers baseball right now, Stroman is currently 92nd in ERA with a winning record. The starting pitchers from 80-92 have marginal differences in their stats, so you could basically say he's in the middle of the pack.
You don't send him down to AAA or the bullpen at this point. Your giving him way to short of a leash, especially since there is nobody to replace him with. Not sure what to tell you, or Greg Zaun for that matter, but it's just plain dumb.
His first 8 starts, ERA: 3.54, WHIP: 1.1
His last 8 starts, ERA: 7.50, WHIP 1.8
If his overall numbers fall a bit below avg, then good for him. But over the last 8 starts, he has been the worst starter in baseball.
Given a starter will make 32 starts, he has been BAD for 1/4 of the season, that's a long enough leash for me, Zaun, and most of us who follow the Jays.
You say give him more leash; how much more?
BTW, his two wins were Phils and Twins two of the weakest teams.
[gawd, cold beer is good on a hot day!]
I'm not insulting the people, but they are idiotic answers.ouh, insulting the majority opinion. Sucks to be the only one with the "truth and substance", eh.
Like, you guys realize were talking about a kid who has less than a 1 run differential per 9 innings than Max Scherzer right? Less than a run! and you want to pull the rug from underneath him that quick, and bring up a worse pitcher.
longer than quarter of a season. Two of his last 3 starts weren't bad. I don't care if one was against the phils, they are still a pro baseball team with pro hitters. Yesterday start wasn't that bad. If he had a good start, why are so quick to think he can't turn it around again? Given the fact that 2 of his last 3 starts weren't bad, pulling the rug from him at this point is not the right move.You say give him more leash; how much more?
