Turkey downs Russian plane over Syria
- Thread starter Twister
- Start date
You are nitpicking. The fact is, the situation in Syria is murky and those Turkmen are definitley allied with ISIS and are therefore one and the same. You can slice and dice all you want, but they are the enemy. So is Turkey
US Officials confirm Russian plane was hit while in Syrian airspace...
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US...rian-airspace-when-Turkey-shot-it-down-435275
Hmm confirmed by a US official (Which Fuji claims is highly credible AND published by the Jerusalem Post) What will boy wonder now do when his two most beloved nations support Putins version of the truth....lol:biggrin1:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US...rian-airspace-when-Turkey-shot-it-down-435275
Hmm confirmed by a US official (Which Fuji claims is highly credible AND published by the Jerusalem Post) What will boy wonder now do when his two most beloved nations support Putins version of the truth....lol:biggrin1:
S
**Sophie**
China has that laser weapon. China and Russia have been doing a lot of drills together.
No I did not say they were civilians, they are a bunch of terrorists running around those hills. All the women and children have long left and are in Turkey. I am not calling for it, it is pretty much a standard ratio. It holds for the Palis as well, also the Palis are trapped, the Turkmen can leave. Also the Palis are an oppressed minority, the Turkmen are just instruments of the Turkish govt trying to overthrow Assad. The Palis have a set of demands for peace, the Turkmen do not. The Syrians have never tried to wipe out the Turkmen or move them off their land until the civil war. And STILL the goal is really to regain control of the border with Turkey, not really wipe out the Turkmen. Israel, as we know has complete control of the borders. Saying it is the same shows what a simian you are .
How about that Putin not a liar according to Israel and the USA... wow. How do you live with such constant wrongness in your life. Is it something you get used to after a while?
Interesting that in other contexts you promote the idea of self defense by attacking random civilians but here you get angry when a clearly identified soldier gets attacked.
Sure, I have never supported killing soldiers when they are "out of the fight". I would not support killing Israeli soldiers if they surrendered or pilots if they ejected.
That's funny. You have gone so far as to say Israeli civilians in the West Bank are legitimate targets and have said attacks on Israeli civilians are okay because many of them are in the reserves.
Why is it you have a different tone now?
The only reason that applies is that Israel has set those rules, so when the stronger party sets the rules in this way it is a downward spiral. I would still say the Russians should accept surrender of these people but the don't seem to be the surrendering type. Both parties in the Israel conflict have declared by their actions that it is open season on civilians. So its unrealistic to expect the Palis to not want to kill Israelis when Israel has slaughtered thousands of civilians including almost 600 children. Just over a year ago.
S
**Sophie**
Wow. To go from saying attacks on off duty Israeli soldiers are bad to justifying attacks on Israeli civilians that quick is pathetic.
And in case you didn't notice, Putin is the stronger party. He's bombing all sorts of non-ISIS groups and doesn't care about civilians so isn't he 'setting those rules'?
p.s. I know you find it unrealistic to expect Arabs to have free will but Palestinians and Turkmen both have the capacity to exercise morals and self control and both should be held accountable when they refuse to do so.
There is no impartial evidence that he is not minimizing civilian casualties. Russia is the stronger party and there is no evidence of any egregious violations especially in the context of Syria. The most humane course of action in that utter chaotic mess, is to bring hostilities to an end with the application of maximum force. Because of the players and the confused mix of factions, there really is no other way. Lots of people have ideas about how to end the Israeli conflict, except Israel refuses to. In the case of Syria NO ONE has suggested how to end the conflict until Putin entered the fray. If he succeeds I think he should get the goddamn Nobel Peace Prize!!!
BTW I don't justify it, I think it is criminal and both sides Israel and the Palis are criminal scum and deserve each other.I only feel sorry for the children.
Keep squirming. He said he was attacking ISIS. He wasn't. He lied. That means what he says can't be believed, he is a liar.
Whether you think he was justified in bombing the Turkmen civilians is another question, and a travesty.
Now you are supporting ethnic cleansing of the Turkmen from their ancestral homes.
Are you drunk when you post this nonsense? The Turkmen are FROM SYRIA. Always have been. And the Palestinians are equally just instruments is the surrounding Arab states trying to overthrow Israel.
Not only are you a hypocrite, you don't think critically about the hypocrisy you post.
Really, what are the demands Hamas has made for a permanent, lasting peace with the State of Israel?
Hint: Hamas has refused peace under ANY terms.
And are you sure the Turkmen don't have demands, like maybe an independent Turkmenistan?
Hilarious. You are a joke!
Oh so that makes it OK to cluster bomb refugee camps and call for ethnic cleansing (as YOU just did).
And here I thought there Palestinian borders were famous for their large and elaborate tunnels.
Sheldon Filger is more than a bit of a nut, but this article largely makes sense.
"Turkey Attacks Russia: Sarajevo 2015?
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, President of the Republic of Turkey, may at present be the most dangerous man on our planet. Renowned as a brilliant politician domestically, who skillfully manipulates Turkish public opinion for electoral gains, he has also established a reputation for shooting from the mouth without much forethought when it comes to foreign affairs. On November 24, 2015 Erdogan went beyond words, authorizing his air force to take down a Russian fighter jet.
While some of the facts regarding the shootdown of the Russian Air Force SU-24 remain in contention between Turkey and Russia, what has emerged is deeply disturbing. Even Turkey admits that the Russian aircraft was in its airspace for a mere seventeen seconds. American authorities have informed various news agencies that the SU-24 was in Turkish skies for only a few seconds, and was actually flying over Syria when it was destroyed by a missile fired by a Turkish fighter. These facts would seem to confirm the allegation made by Russian President Vladimir Putin that the shootdown of the SU-24 was premeditated. In other words, President Erdogan had apparently ordered his country's air force to destroy a Russian military aircraft as soon as a pretext emerged. An overflight that may have occurred over Turkish air space for a few seconds provided that pretext.
If Erdogan sought to destroy a Russian aircraft, for what purpose would he have engaged in such a dangerously brazen escalation of the already explosive reality that is the failed and disintegrating state of Syria?
The Turkish president maintains that Russia's claim that it is fighting ISIS is a canard, and that Moscow is primarily targeting the "moderate" opposition to Assad, which Turkey supports. Until the bombing of a Russian airliner over Sinai, that was certainly true. However, after the Metrojet plane was destroyed over the Sinai desert, Russia began shifting its bombing campaign towards the Islamic State. Furthermore, Turkey has been playing the same game, under Erdogan's instructions. Also claiming to be fighting ISIS in Syria, the Turkish Air Force has actually conducted far fewer air strikes on the Islamic State than Moscow's air force. Instead, Turkish aircraft have primarily targeted the Kurdish militias in Syria, the same force that has been the most effective opposition to ISIS in northern Syria. Erdogan is much more interested in preventing the Kurds from achieving any form of sovereignty in the Middle East than in confronting the Islamic State.
The most likely explanation for Erdogan's astonishing decision to launch an attack on a Russian aircraft was to thwart and strangle at birth the nascent indications of a possible grand coalition being formed to combat ISIS, involving the United States, France and Russia. After the terrorist attacks in Paris and the destruction of the Russian airliner in Egypt, French President Hollande saw a rare opportunity to bring together those three countries in facing a common danger. It must be noted that the Turks downed the Russian warplane on the same day Hollande was in Washington, meeting with President Obama prior to a follow-up meeting with Putin. The shootdown of the SU-24 probably has doomed President Hollande's vision of a grand alliance working together in fighting the Islamic State.
Irrespective of Erdogan's immediate objective, his reckless decision has perhaps put the entire planet on the path towards an unintended but potentially devastating war. President Putin will be forced to act in some form, not only due to his own personal feelings. No matter how cool-headed and cautiously he may intend to respond to the Turkish attack, he is not immune to Russian public opinion. Not only the shootdown, but the barbaric murder of one of the parachuting Russian pilots by Turkey's allies in Syria--an act that is in clear violation of the Geneva Convention--will inevitably stimulate great indignation among the Russian people.
In 1914 renegade elements in a foreign intelligence service orchestrated the assassination of the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne in Sarajevo. In the weeks that followed, miscalculations intersected with a system of military alliances that put the world on the path to world war. Turkey is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and Erdogan has already called on NATO for full support in the face of possible future Russian military countermeasures in response to the destruction of the SU-24. Alarmingly, President Obama has already expressed public support for Turkey's right to defend its airspace.
Before Turkey's recklessly irresponsible leader drags the United States into an unintended military confrontation with Russia over events in Syria, President Obama should reconsider his blanket support for Turkey's belligerent and brazen acts of violence against Moscow, and make clear that the United States--and NATO--will not be dragged into a conflict with Moscow over Erdogan's dangerous adventurism."
"Turkey Attacks Russia: Sarajevo 2015?
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, President of the Republic of Turkey, may at present be the most dangerous man on our planet. Renowned as a brilliant politician domestically, who skillfully manipulates Turkish public opinion for electoral gains, he has also established a reputation for shooting from the mouth without much forethought when it comes to foreign affairs. On November 24, 2015 Erdogan went beyond words, authorizing his air force to take down a Russian fighter jet.
While some of the facts regarding the shootdown of the Russian Air Force SU-24 remain in contention between Turkey and Russia, what has emerged is deeply disturbing. Even Turkey admits that the Russian aircraft was in its airspace for a mere seventeen seconds. American authorities have informed various news agencies that the SU-24 was in Turkish skies for only a few seconds, and was actually flying over Syria when it was destroyed by a missile fired by a Turkish fighter. These facts would seem to confirm the allegation made by Russian President Vladimir Putin that the shootdown of the SU-24 was premeditated. In other words, President Erdogan had apparently ordered his country's air force to destroy a Russian military aircraft as soon as a pretext emerged. An overflight that may have occurred over Turkish air space for a few seconds provided that pretext.
If Erdogan sought to destroy a Russian aircraft, for what purpose would he have engaged in such a dangerously brazen escalation of the already explosive reality that is the failed and disintegrating state of Syria?
The Turkish president maintains that Russia's claim that it is fighting ISIS is a canard, and that Moscow is primarily targeting the "moderate" opposition to Assad, which Turkey supports. Until the bombing of a Russian airliner over Sinai, that was certainly true. However, after the Metrojet plane was destroyed over the Sinai desert, Russia began shifting its bombing campaign towards the Islamic State. Furthermore, Turkey has been playing the same game, under Erdogan's instructions. Also claiming to be fighting ISIS in Syria, the Turkish Air Force has actually conducted far fewer air strikes on the Islamic State than Moscow's air force. Instead, Turkish aircraft have primarily targeted the Kurdish militias in Syria, the same force that has been the most effective opposition to ISIS in northern Syria. Erdogan is much more interested in preventing the Kurds from achieving any form of sovereignty in the Middle East than in confronting the Islamic State.
The most likely explanation for Erdogan's astonishing decision to launch an attack on a Russian aircraft was to thwart and strangle at birth the nascent indications of a possible grand coalition being formed to combat ISIS, involving the United States, France and Russia. After the terrorist attacks in Paris and the destruction of the Russian airliner in Egypt, French President Hollande saw a rare opportunity to bring together those three countries in facing a common danger. It must be noted that the Turks downed the Russian warplane on the same day Hollande was in Washington, meeting with President Obama prior to a follow-up meeting with Putin. The shootdown of the SU-24 probably has doomed President Hollande's vision of a grand alliance working together in fighting the Islamic State.
Irrespective of Erdogan's immediate objective, his reckless decision has perhaps put the entire planet on the path towards an unintended but potentially devastating war. President Putin will be forced to act in some form, not only due to his own personal feelings. No matter how cool-headed and cautiously he may intend to respond to the Turkish attack, he is not immune to Russian public opinion. Not only the shootdown, but the barbaric murder of one of the parachuting Russian pilots by Turkey's allies in Syria--an act that is in clear violation of the Geneva Convention--will inevitably stimulate great indignation among the Russian people.
In 1914 renegade elements in a foreign intelligence service orchestrated the assassination of the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne in Sarajevo. In the weeks that followed, miscalculations intersected with a system of military alliances that put the world on the path to world war. Turkey is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and Erdogan has already called on NATO for full support in the face of possible future Russian military countermeasures in response to the destruction of the SU-24. Alarmingly, President Obama has already expressed public support for Turkey's right to defend its airspace.
Before Turkey's recklessly irresponsible leader drags the United States into an unintended military confrontation with Russia over events in Syria, President Obama should reconsider his blanket support for Turkey's belligerent and brazen acts of violence against Moscow, and make clear that the United States--and NATO--will not be dragged into a conflict with Moscow over Erdogan's dangerous adventurism."
