Royal Spa

Turkey downs Russian plane over Syria

Scorpio Rising

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Its pretty obvious that the Coalition and Russia already have a working agreement about who
is doing what and where they are doing it. Its also pretty obvious that both the Coalition and Russia
are going to preserve Assad for the time being.None of whom cares to commit ground troops.
The Sam S400 is for Turkey alone.
 

fuji

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Respectfully Fuji I disagree. Not unless Turkey wants to declare war on Russia. In which case things would probably go well for Turkey for the first few weeks. . . but after that it would be an entirely different story.
Projecting force is not declaring war. All they have to do is supply arms and assistance to rebel groups in Syria and they can deliver an Afghanistan like experience to the Russians with mounting casualties and no clear exit plan.

Force projection in 2015 is not all about tank columns.

To win in Syria you need the surrounding nations on side, or else the surrounding nations make life hell. Picking a fight with Turkey was retarded.

Whatever Putin did to piss off Turkey basically guaranteed the outcome will be a bad one for Russia, and will ultimately involve Russia withdrawing without achieving their goals after sending home lots of Russians in boxes. Whatever Putin thought he was going to achieve in Syria, Turkey will now dedicate itself to undermining that.
 

fuji

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Turks would have to have a death wish to declare war on Russia. There's now way NATO would back them up. Not with this president, not with the Muslims flooding Europe and putting pressure on the Union. The Eastern European NATO members will never support Turkey in a conflict with Russia.
They don't need to. They only need to give anti aircraft missiles to insurgents in Syria, and allow their border to be a supply line to those actually killing the Russians, ensuring that over time lots of Russians get killed.
 

fuji

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Nonsense. The area they were bombing is where the illegal oil trade occurs. These Turkmen are part of that trade and therefore facilitate ISIS. The Americans have ZERO credibility on ANYTHING to do with Syria. Their lies are becoming more and more obvious. Even your beloved Israel said it was obvious form the flight profile there was no intention to attack Turkey. Are you again calling the Israelis liars and morally bankrupt?
You just admitted Putin lied when he said he was targeting ISIS militants.

And no one claimed they were attacking Turkey, they were attacking ethnic Turks in Syria and flew over Turkey while doing so, giving the Turks multiple justifications for the shoot down. After all Putin has extravagantly claimed that protecting your ethnic kin in neighboring countries is justification for military action. He can't now complain.

Your frothing at the mouth hatred of Americans doesn't undermine their enormous credibility.
 

TESLAMotors

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Apr 23, 2014
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Racist bullshit. The Turkmen aren't savages.

And as for the actual savages, ISIS, it isn't clear that Russia is actually even targeting them. Certainly they weren't targeting ISIS when they were shot down, they were bombing Turkmen civilians.

So maybe the Russians are the savages in this case...
I was logged off when I saw this post and when I read the word savages, I immediately thought of this article.
http://www.commondreams.org/news/20...vilian-killings-driving-terrorism-instability
 

TESLAMotors

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Apr 23, 2014
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Jesus, we don't need this to escalate to some sort of global conflict, reminiscent of some warning in the book of Revelation.
You got the name "Jesus" and the book of "Revelations" in the same sentence, when did you ever think you'll see those two together again?


Get rid of religion (and their followers) and a lot of the problems are gone.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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You just admitted Putin lied when he said he was targeting ISIS militants.

And no one claimed they were attacking Turkey, they were attacking ethnic Turks in Syria and flew over Turkey while doing so, giving the Turks multiple justifications for the shoot down. After all Putin has extravagantly claimed that protecting your ethnic kin in neighboring countries is justification for military action. He can't now complain.

Your frothing at the mouth hatred of Americans doesn't undermine their enormous credibility.
Attacking the ISIS oil trade is he same, or even better then attacking ISIS. Take their money away and they are done. Even a chimpanzee can understand that logic BUT NOT FUJI APPARENTLY!!! lol

Protecting your ethnic kin from oppression is reasonable, but not when the fuckheads are helping finance extremist terrorists. If they were not doing business with ISIS or trying to overthrow ASSAD, Russia would not be bombing them.

So how come you say the Americans are right and the Israelis are liars? Torn between two lovers lol.
 

jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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They don't need to. They only need to give anti aircraft missiles to insurgents in Syria, and allow their border to be a supply line to those actually killing the Russians, ensuring that over time lots of Russians get killed.
If Turkey ever gives mobile missile systems to those people, they're out of NATO.
 

LickRus

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:Eek:

‘They know how it’s done’: Turkey violated Greek airspace 2,244 times in 2014 alone

Turkish claims that the downed Russian Su-24 jet “violated” its airspace have sparked outrage among Greeks, who took to social media to say it is a clear-cut case of double standards as Turkish jets breached Greek airspace 2,244 times in 2014 alone.
They wondered what would happen if Greece had authorized engagement of Turkish aircraft, which breach the country’s borders on a regular basis.

On Wednesday, the Protothema newspaper released the numbers of breaches saying the Turkish Air Force is usually reluctant to share any details when it comes to such violations.

The newspaper quoted University of Thessaly statistics based on the Greek military’s count - there were 2,244 violations in 2014, an increase from 636 in 2013.

“The Turks are trying to enforce sovereignty over disputed islands and bring Greece to the negotiating table,” Thanos Dokos, the director general of the Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy, told the Politico news website in July. “What’s worrying are the low-altitude flights, often by helicopters, over these islands.”

Turkey fails to respect the 10-mile airspace surrounding the Aegean Islands, which causes numerous dogfights between Greek and Turkish aircraft invading the area. From January to October 2015, the country’s airspace was violated 1,233 times including 31 flights over Greek territory itself, according to the Greek Air Force’s headquarters. Greek media noted the Turks are taking advantage of the country’s economic hardships.

“In the case of air incursions, you have to react,” Thanos Dokos said. “It’s very hard to unilaterally pull back from a situation of military aggression. It’s a tragic situation, because the money we’re spending on dogfights with Turkey is money that we could have spent on other areas of defense.”

Media attention has also focused on Turkish naval vessels repeatedly breaching national maritime borders. Over just seven months – from January to July 2015 – the Turkish Navy made 175 incursions into Greek maritime waters. In June, the Turkish Navy ship, the Gelibolu, repeatedly went on “patrol” in Greek territorial waters, a move that angered many in Greece.

Earlier on Wednesday, Greek Foreign Minister Nikas Kotzias expressed solidarity with Russia in a phone conversation with Russian FM Sergei Lavrov. The Russian Foreign Ministry said: “Athens agrees with the Russian president’s assessment on Ankara’s hostile actions, which are contrary to the goals of the anti-ISIS coalition,” RIA Novosti reports.

Greece, according to its Foreign Ministry, “especially comprehends provocative moves by Turkey given regular multiple violations of Greek air space by Ankara lasting for years.”

https://www.rt.com/news/323429-gree...ome&utm_campaign=chrome#.VlXVfeZCd_w.facebook
 

eznutz

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Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President

The prime source of money feeding ISIS these days is sale of Iraqi oil from the Mosul region oilfields where they maintain a stronghold. The son of Erdogan it seems is the man who makes the export sales of ISIS-controlled oil possible.

Bilal Erdogan owns several maritime companies. He has allegedly signed contracts with European operating companies to carry Iraqi stolen oil to different Asian countries. The Turkish government buys Iraqi plundered oil which is being produced from the Iraqi seized oil wells. Bilal Erdogan’s maritime companies own special wharfs in Beirut and Ceyhan ports that are transporting ISIS’ smuggled crude oil in Japan-bound oil tankers.

Gürsel Tekin vice-president of the Turkish Republican Peoples’ Party, CHP, declared in a recent Turkish media interview, “President Erdogan claims that according to international transportation conventions there is no legal infraction concerning Bilal’s illicit activities and his son is doing an ordinary business with the registered Japanese companies, but in fact Bilal Erdogan is up to his neck in complicity with terrorism, but as long as his father holds office he will be immune from any judicial prosecution.” Tekin adds that Bilal’s maritime company doing the oil trades for ISIS, BMZ Ltd, is “a family business and president Erdogan’s close relatives hold shares in BMZ and they misused public funds and took illicit loans from Turkish banks.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president
http://journal-neo.org/2015/08/24/erdogan-s-dirty-dangerous-isis-games/
 

Aardvark154

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Projecting force is not declaring war. All they have to do is supply arms and assistance to rebel groups in Syria and they can deliver an Afghanistan like experience to the Russians with mounting casualties and no clear exit plan.
And the first time that Turkey's trigger happy "friends" shoot at a U.S., U.K. or French warplane?
 

KBear

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NATO views it with concern as Russia's best Anti-Aircraft Missile System

Google SA-21 Growler
This system seems to be more for hitting bombers at long range or maybe surveillance planes.

Wonder if the SA-21 would be effective against fighter jets at long range when the jet knows the missile is coming. Any missile fired in that area would be seen and tracked. The small jets could deploy countermeasures and drop to the ground.

Turkey seems to control the only access to the Black Sea?
 

fuji

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Attacking the ISIS oil trade is he same, or even better then attacking ISIS. Take their money away and they are done. Even a chimpanzee can understand that logic BUT NOT FUJI APPARENTLY!!! lol

Protecting your ethnic kin from oppression is reasonable, but not when the fuckheads are helping finance extremist terrorists. If they were not doing business with ISIS or trying to overthrow ASSAD, Russia would not be bombing them.

So how come you say the Americans are right and the Israelis are liars? Torn between two lovers lol.
Sorry but Putin didn't claim be attacking civilians engaged in the oil trade. He lied and said he was attacking ISIL fighters. He got caught lying and nothing he says can be trusted. It is doubtful that this oil trade claim of true, he was probably just attacking any random Turkmen civilian and not singling out oil traders.

What you are doing now is attempting to justify the attacks on civilians he was actually engaged in and saying it is OK because they are "fuck heads". This is just like when you claimed it was OK for Russia to ethnically cleanse Ingush civilians because they were " shit heads ".

You seem to think you can justify Russian war crime by insulting the victims.
 

fuji

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And the first time that Turkey's trigger happy "friends" shoot at a U.S., U.K. or French warplane?
Then there will be dead US, UK, or French airmen.

That doesn't alter the point: Turkey's long border with Syria and its deep connection to people in the country make Turkey MUCH better able to project force into Syria then Russia.

Putin really fucked up turning Turkey into an enemy. Pretty much guarantees a bad outcome for Russia. Had Vlad been less of an arrogant bully he would have cooperated with the Turks and avoided bombing their civilians.

Now he is fucked. He can pound on his chest, put tank columns and anti air missiles in Syria, but Turkey will fight a proxy war and make him bleed and eventually Russian families will get sick of having to bring home their kids in pine boxes.
 
Ashley Madison
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