Amnesty International - Gaza Strikes a war crime

[nottyboi]

Let's review.

You've tried to describe the Arabs' military losses as "apartheid," "ethnic cleansing" and a "crime."

In fact, the Arabs' military losses are none of those things. So, when all else fails, you try to change the subject.

It figures.



What???

People like you were adamant that ending the occupation in Gaza would pacify the Jew-hating terrorists and would lead to more peace. Now that it is painfully obvious that you were wrong, you try to claim that Israel "fled"?

Unbelievable. It's this kind of idiocy that makes people wonder if some of you Hamas lovers really are anti-Semites.

Who ever said ending the occupation of Gaza would lead to ANY sort of peace. That is an utterly idiotic statement. I have never said or heard such a retarded statement. Of course Israel fled. They had a policy of protecting settelements.. that policy was reversed when the cost was made too high. The US could have kept fighting in Vietnam as well, but the cost was too high. You keep calling me a Hamas lover, yet I have called them scum, thugs advocated their destruction... man you are a simpleton. You cannot deal with an objective view, pro or con.

For the Arab military losses to NOT be ethnic cleansing, the Israelis would have to allow civilians displaced by the war to reclaim their residency and property. This is something they have FLATLY refused to do or even acknowledge except in the vaguest terms.

 

[nottyboi]

"Displace a civilian population?"

The Arabs waged war against the Jews and lost. Territorial losses are part of the deal.

Arabs make up about 20 per cent of Israel's population. That ain't "ethnic cleansing."

They were displaced from the captured territory, and many non-combatants fled the violence and lost their property. Unless those people are allowed to reclaim their residency and property it is ethnic cleansing.

 

[basketcase]

... Frankly I have no bias to either side as I am no national, religious or birth affiliation to either side. I only seem biased because you are terribly so.

Best quote so far.



And I have no national, religious, or birth affiliation to either side, just a closer identification to the morals of Israel compared to the atrocious governments of Arab states in general and the PA/Hamas in specific.

 

[basketcase]

They were displaced from the captured territory, and many non-combatants fled the violence and lost their property. Unless those people are allowed to reclaim their residency and property it is ethnic cleansing.

Ethnic cleansing would mean the people of an ethnicity were cleansed. In case you hadn't noticed, around 1/4-1/5 of Arabs chose to remain in Israel and now make up 20% of Israel. Comic book guy would call it the worst ethnic cleansing ever.

 

[basketcase]

Who ever said ending the occupation of Gaza would lead to ANY sort of peace. That is an utterly idiotic statement. I have never said or heard such a retarded statement.....

Another admission from notty that the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank are not the issue.

 

[Moviefan-2]

They were displaced from the captured territory, and many non-combatants fled the violence and lost their property. Unless those people are allowed to reclaim their residency and property it is ethnic cleansing.

Wrong again. That's not the definition of "ethnic cleansing."

Of course Israel fled. They had a policy of protecting settelements.. that policy was reversed when the cost was made too high.

Yet, somehow, Israel found the resources to re-establish military control over the border after the Palestinians used their freedom (and new resources) to escalate their terrorist attacks.

You're delusional.

 

[fuji]

Well I am not going to say that would not happen if they just opened the floodgates and the IDF dropped its weapons, but considering there are over 1.6M arab citizens of Israel, don't you think there would be chaos all the time if what you said was true and there was some short of hereditary hatred of jews in the arab gene?

I do not believe hated is hereditary. The deep seated, evil, malignant hatred that permeates the Arab world no doubt had cultural and religious roots.

They believe the man in the sky awarded them the whole middle east and that they have a god given right to kill anybody who disagrees. Particularly Jews, who they have been hating and persecuting for hundreds of years.

Arabs in Israel are a minority and cannot work up the sort of institutionalized state hatred that the PLO, Hamas, etc., have turned into an art form.

 

[nottyboi]

Best quote so far.



And I have no national, religious, or birth affiliation to either side, just a closer identification to the morals of Israel compared to the atrocious governments of Arab states in general and the PA/Hamas in specific.

I have no problem with that, but it is just comparing bad with worse. And if you think that buys you any moral high ground in this context, you are kidding yourself. And that is pretty much how the majority of the world sees it.

 

[nottyboi]

I do not believe hated is hereditary. The deep seated, evil, malignant hatred that permeates the Arab world no doubt had cultural and religious roots.

And the Arabs in Israel are different...how?

 

[fuji]

And the Arabs in Israel are different...how?

They don't have a majority, state power, etc., and they are policed.

 

[nottyboi]

Wrong again. That's not the definition of "ethnic cleansing."



Yet, somehow, Israel found the resources to re-establish military control over the border after the Palestinians used their freedom (and new resources) to escalate their terrorist attacks.

You're delusional.

Israel never lost control over the border. I am not saying that, they just lost a battle in a war which they are winning.

As for ethnic cleansing, I think I will take the views of this Israeli historian over some guy that gets all his knowledge from movies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine


Needless to say this book caused a shit storm of controversy, just like when Jimmy Carter accuse Israel of being an apartheid state.

 

[fuji]

And yet you were just punting to the millions of Arabs in Israel, pretty much confirming objectively that no ethnic cleansing took place. If you want to see what ethnic cleansing looks like count the Jews in Egypt, Syria, or Jordan.

 

[nottyboi]

They don't have a majority, state power, etc., and they are policed.

Ahh so you agree they are not equal citizens, but as if the arabs in the territories have state power. And I think you know the enough the limits of policing you know you are tossing that out as an explanation because you do not have one.

 

[fuji]

Ahh so you agree they are not equal citizens, but as if the arabs in the territories have state power. And I think you know the enough the limits of policing you know you are tossing that out as an explanation because you do not have one.

They certainly are equal citizens, but there is no denying the objective fact that every Arab majority state has institutionalized and promoted violent antisemitism.

Terrorists like Hamas do not arise in a vacuum, they grow out of state like institutions that promote hated. Schools that teach Jew hating. Governments that promote, rather than crack down on, extremism.

 

[nottyboi]

And yet you were just punting to the millions of Arabs in Israel, pretty much confirming objectively that no ethnic cleansing took place. If you want to see what ethnic cleansing looks like count the Jews in Egypt, Syria, or Jordan.

The arabs that fled were in a certain area, for the arabs that stayed, they would have had to head TOWARDS the front and go THOUGH the fighting.

"Later, a series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented them from returning to their homes, or claiming their property. They and many of their descendants remain refugees.[10][11] The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing,[12][13][14] while others dispute this charge.[15][16][17]"

So you claim the Israeli govt tried to assure Arabs, yet here it appears they actually passed laws preventing their return. You really think that is morally or ethically defensible?

 

[fuji]

The arabs that fled were in a certain area, for the arabs that stayed, they would have had to head TOWARDS the front and go THOUGH the fighting.

This is just a flat lie. Arabs stayed or fled from the same places. There are Arabs in every part of Israel. You can't just make shit up like this!

 

[nottyboi]

This is just a flat lie. Arabs stayed or fled from the same places. There are Arabs in every part of Israel. You can't just make shit up like this!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Major_Arab_localities

no it isn't, look where most of the arabs in Israel are today.. notice anythings Sherlock?

BTW nice avoidance of answering a simple moral question there..

 

[fuji]

I notice that the article directly contradicts your claim.

By the way, fleeing from areas of the heaviest fighting is what people do in any war and has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nobody likes being in the middle of a battlefield.

Here are some points for you to evade: hardly any Arab civilians were killed in the civil war. Israel offered anyone who stayed citizenship, and delivered on that promise. There are millions of Arabs in Israel today who are living proof.

 

[nottyboi]

They certainly are equal citizens, but there is no denying the objective fact that every Arab majority state has institutionalized and promoted violent antisemitism.

Terrorists like Hamas do not arise in a vacuum, they grow out of state like institutions that promote hated. Schools that teach Jew hating. Governments that promote, rather than crack down on, extremism.

Well yes of course they do, but in the context of being thrown of your lands and losing your property in a war and ending up in a shithole like Gaza with no escape, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL about Israel.

 

[nottyboi]

I notice that the article directly contradicts your claim.

By the way, fleeing from areas of the heaviest fighting is what people do in any war and has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nobody likes being in the middle of a battlefield.

Here are some points for you to evade: hardly any Arab civilians were killed in the civil war. Israel offered anyone who stayed citizenship, and delivered on that promise. There are millions of Arabs in Israel today who are living proof.

Oh come on, the Nazi made lots of promises to the Jews as well. In the context of chaos, if their intentions were true they would have not slammed the door behind these people. As for contradicting my claim, I am not sure which claim you speak of, but clearly the pockets of Israeli Arabs had no escape route and were behind the lines of Israeli defense for the most part.