It SHOULD be a wakeup call for any country that lets their military atrophy during peacetime. Sadly, Canada's military is pretty useless itself and Canadians don't seem to be getting the memo. More cutbacks on the horizon. What if this does kick off WWIII? We'll be in a worse position then we were when WWII kicked off. And for those who don't know, in WWII we declared war in 1939 and didn't see battle until 1941 because we lacked things like bullets, rifles and basic equipment, just like Ukraine.
Another Malaysian Airways flight down over Ukraine....
- Thread starter gfelover
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And if one goes back and sees oagre's posting history, you can see his obvious hatred of Russia and disdain for Russians based on his interaction with a handful of "facebook friends".
Pretty typical post from someone who buys into the western viewpoint hook, line and sinker with no real knowledge of the region, the people or the geopolitics of this situation.
Let's not forget, this is the guy who was unaware of any manufacturing industry in Eastern Ukraine, and once it was pointed out there are 186 factories dedicated to the arms industry alone, said this wasn't news to him but says I'm "obtuse" for not understanding how he can both be aware of the thriving arms industry and unaware of any industry at all. It's convenient that catching him in this obvious admission of ignorance happened at the same time he "had enough" and decided to block me. He likes to talk about things that "are obvious". Well, it's obvious to me that he fancies himself an expert because of a google search or two, and once he's shown that he's maybe not the expert he thinks he is, he can't handle it. As with someone that's racist, sexist, ageist, etc, their own prejudices render them blind to the reality, and oagre's obvious hatred of Russia and Russians has put him squarely in that same boat.
Funny, I don't see a lot of official support for the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republic in Donetsk and Lugansk. Where are all the mayors and judges and lawyers and doctors and businessmen and other eminent people from the area? Nowhere near the separatists, that's for sure.
And doesn't Strelkov complain about the lack of recruits? The town folk? Ohh, you mean the drunks with AK's who looted the crash site of the jetliner? The riff-raff who melt away when the Ukrainian army comes near and decide they want to be ordinary civilians again? Them?
If there was any support for the Donetsk Republic worth shit, that imaginary entity would be rock solid right now and far beyond the power of the Ukrainian army to over-run or bring back into the fold.
Latest report, the Uke govt army is in Donetsk and Lugansk and has cut the main supply route in from the Russian border.
No proof of that in the video, is there? You essentially invented the bit about the racist comments by the people in L'viv....
Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place.
"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.
"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.
"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.
"They knew that this BUK existed; that the BUK was heading for Snezhnoye," he said, referring to a village 10 km (six miles) west of the crash site. "They knew that it would be deployed there, and provoked the use of this BUK by starting an air strike on a target they didn’t need, that their planes hadn’t touched for a week."
"And that day, they were intensively flying, and exactly at the moment of the shooting, at the moment the civilian plane flew overhead, they launched air strikes. Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...sis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723
Yet another Russian spin on what happened. Khodakovsky, commander of the rebel "Vostok Battalion" now says that they HAD the BUK and it was supplied by Russia. But the Ukrainians provoked them into shooting down the plane by continuing military air operations in the same area as the shoot-down.......
"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.
"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.
"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.
"They knew that this BUK existed; that the BUK was heading for Snezhnoye," he said, referring to a village 10 km (six miles) west of the crash site. "They knew that it would be deployed there, and provoked the use of this BUK by starting an air strike on a target they didn’t need, that their planes hadn’t touched for a week."
"And that day, they were intensively flying, and exactly at the moment of the shooting, at the moment the civilian plane flew overhead, they launched air strikes. Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...sis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723
Yet another Russian spin on what happened. Khodakovsky, commander of the rebel "Vostok Battalion" now says that they HAD the BUK and it was supplied by Russia. But the Ukrainians provoked them into shooting down the plane by continuing military air operations in the same area as the shoot-down.......
Yes I did. Go back to my response to al chol and why I said it. Then go back to my post about you having little knowledge about Ukraine. I'm not trying to be an ass with you are anyone else. There are two side to every story. I look at these conflicts and the reporting of them differently since Iraq. Why you ask because a lot of people died. Why you ask. So america can live peacefully.....
Do ya think maybe it had to do with some black shit in the ground for some american corp. Wow that is way out in left field.
So I tend to skim over the bs that is put out and I concern myself with the innocent lives being lost for some fake noble cause.
Incidently and I know you'll love this but there isn't a f'in difference between the Russian, Ukrainian, Polish etc people. Same like the Israeli, leboneese ( except of Persian descent ) Palestinian etc. Put them in the same clothes they all look the same.
See my post #237 about you. It's always the same. The Western Ukrainians are assholes. The US manipulates everything and the Western media play along. It's all fake done so the US can make $. Typical anti-Maidan, anti-Kiev Russophone-Ukrainian attitudes. No matter how many times you post, you just say variations on the same theme because you believe it so much.
Funny is what is going on in the Ukraine essentially what the 4th amendment is about? People who feel oppressed being able to rise up and oppose tyranny? Why would Ukraine rush to a military solution instead of agreeing to mediation? So what you are essentially saying is that a nation should haev greater capacity to oppress its people.
You do know I never said that the Western Ukrainians hated Russians, they snub their noses at Ukrainians who don't speak 100% Ukrainian without accent. This is why they are referred to by many as Nationalist. This is a known generalization. I likened it to the Nationalist in Quebec, hauntingly similar.
Nor did I say the US paid the protesters in Kiev, I did say that they were paid and I'm saying that takes away from the sincerity of the protest. Sorry buddy I am right, you really don't know Ukraine.
You two have some sort of OCD hard-ons for each other??? Family of origin issues manifesting themselves?? Daddy and mommy were always right???........
Seriously, strip away the language and religion, they are from the same tribe. Now put an Israeli and slavic person side by side and you would easily distinguish between them, so one could argue that they are "brothers".
Makes me question whether that guy has any authority or is just the local face on a non-local movement.
So the conflict isn't tribal, it isn't about religion or language. It is about a future. One part of the country says we believe that we are better off with the west, the other believe with Russia. The part of the country wanting ties with Russia wants the status quo, what they know because they know that their lives were OK ( maybe not the greatest ), the other side says that the pastures are greener on the other side. Maybe they are right and maybe they will eliminate the corruption that is so rampant in Ukraine.
It is not for me to involve myself physically or monetarily, I personally doubt that corruption is going to end in Ukraine anytime soon, they have been down this path before.
If you believe that they are not brothers, then you may subscribe to the thought that both groups should be allowed to determine their own fate ( self-determination ), a freedom, a right. That path is the break-up of Ukraine.
If I am right and the current Ukrainian government doesn't stamp out corruption and does so without dialogue, then lives lost were in vain. Is that the price?
Complete horse-shit, as always.
Let me give you an example. I have a buddy who came here from Italy 15 years ago. He loves chianti, pasta and Botticelli. He hates hockey and winter. He tells me he has nothing in common with Canada and is Italian. So he declares his apartment the "College Street People's Republic" and creates a flag which is Red-Blue-Black. In fact, it looks exactly like the flag of the "Donetsk People's Republic". He murders several TPS officers and shoots down a Cessna flying over his "air space" with a hunting rifle. And he invites a half-dozen Chechens and 3 guys from Russia to serve in his "army".
It's obvious that he's "different" to us Canadians and we should simply let him enjoy "self-determination", right? In fact, he should also get a seat at the UN security counsel.
Yes, if you are French living in Quebec and you have nothing in common with the rest of Canada, you form a political movement and declare that it is your desire to self-determination, or do you seize power?
You don't know Ukraine and that is why your " Moscow Buddies Un-friended you". It is also why you will never think clearly.
Here is a little bit of insight about Ukraine. You are hurt, call for an ambulance, they ask if you have money for gas.
You get stopped driving, so drunk you are incoherent, you hand over some money to the police..... they not only drive you home but one officer drives your car to your house.
You want to open a business, you are told that you need to fix up the area outside of your shop and it is strongly suggested that you purchase the supplies from the company that the mayor owns.
AND YOU THINK THERE IS HOPE FOR UKRAINE, I DON'T ( at least not anytime soon )
you believe that a change in regime ( slanted word ) is going to do anything
YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT UKRAINE
AND
I am right again, you should stop now
I agree with the above scenarios being very likely, but at least Ukraine is attempting to do something about corruption now. Russia does not and will not. This is a pic of matching houses of two brothers who happened to be Putin's judo buddies:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/photos-of-rotenberg-palaces-hit-the-web/503173.html
So I am not sure how freedom-fighters who came to Ukraine from Chechnya etc will help with corruption or anything else for this matter.
