Apartheid analogy common among Israel's left

[Aardvark154]

The uproar seems to growing rather than dying away, that is not good for Secretary Kerry.

Secretary Kerry seems to be desperate for the Nobel Peace Prize, perhaps this was another one of his "failed jokes"?

 

[danmand]

The uproar seems to growing rather than dying away, that is not good for Secretary Kerry.

Secretary Kerry seems to be desperate for the Nobel Peace Prize, perhaps this was another one of his "failed jokes"?

Committing the unforgiveable sin for a diplomat, telling the truth.

As far as the nobel prize goes, methink the norwegian parliament learned their lesson.

 

[nottyboi]

It is not logical to think the current situation can simply persist? While you can certainly debate about it, there is an undeniable probability that it will.

That example alone blows the false dichotomy out of the water.

Jordan and Egypt both did administer the territories within the last fifty years. While they aren't openly expressing an interest in doing it again, the fact that they spent lives to capture and annex that exact land in the past makes it impossible to rule out in, say, another fifty years.

That real possibility also by itself serves as a counter example against the false dichotomy.

Finally, UNRWA is already performing many of the duties of a state, from the provision of health and education, to the administration of an identity card system. There are only a few more responsibilities it would have to pick up to displace the PA as an effective government. How is that not a possibility?

Remember that this is a long run outlook, over the twenty or fifty year period we are discussing a lot of attitudes can change.

To assert that the only possibilities are a one state or two state solution is shockingly wrong.

Weapons technology is changing, the reach of Hamas is getting longer, Hezbollah as well. World opinion is changing. Now the Fatah and Hamas have united. The status quo could remain, but conflict is inherently unstable. To say the situation has remained static for 50 years is very wrong. There were wars that Israel almost lost. Now the situation has calmed to a simmer. But it could explode at any moment.

 

[fuji]

Weapons technology is changing, the reach of Hamas is getting longer, Hezbollah as well. World opinion is changing. Now the Fatah and Hamas have united. The status quo could remain, but conflict is inherently unstable. To say the situation has remained static for 50 years is very wrong. There were wars that Israel almost lost. Now the situation has calmed to a simmer. But it could explode at any moment.

The conflict is not inherently unstable. It has been stable for over forty years. In fact, Israel has been able to manage it with reduced manpower and a declining number of casualties. The longer range rockets are harder to conceal, surveillance technology is improving, and if all else fails Israel can ultimately reoccupy Gaza and destroy them.

The border controls can be toughened up to reduce Iran's ability to smuggle in weapons. Israel can also work on relations with Iran to isolate Hamas further and cut off supply. Improved relations with Egypt have already shut many tunnels, and tunnel detection technology itself is dramatically improving.

The apartheid vs one state notion is a false dichotomy. The harsh reality for the Palestinians is that after forty years, Israel appears to be able to manage the situation as it is today indefinitely.

The nations clamoring for sanctions are mostly declining European powers like Norway that have always been antisemitic and which are not Israel's major trading markets. Trade with Asia is growing exponentially and none of those nations show the slightest interest in "BDS".

Those who say the current situation is unsustainable have been proved wrong. And in the event change is introduced, it could be the territory returning to other Arab states, or being put fully under UN control. There is no reason to think the outcome is limited to a one or two state solution. Continuing occupation, and a no state solution are also possibly.

 

[Lovehobby]

In Israel Sharia law for family and marriage issues are there for the muslims. Arabs have political parties and sit as mps in Parliament. Israel currently have an Ethiopian woman as Miss Israel. Israel is the only country in the region where blacks can get citizenship. in the rest of the Arab world they are treated like slaves.

Israel is to be judged strictly on western dtandards, the Arabs oneastern standards. You cannot compare the two.

 

[fuji]

Israel is to be judged strictly on western dtandards, the Arabs oneastern standards. You cannot compare the two.

Wrong. We hold everyone to the same standard.

Though it's nice of you to confirm that Israel is so extraordinarily morally superior to its adversaries that they aren't really comparable.

 

[groggy]

Wrong. We hold everyone to the same standard..

And by that standard, apartheid nations are the lowest of the low.
Israel is like Donald Sterling now.

 

[fuji]

And by that standard, apartheid nations are the lowest of the low.
Israel is like Donald Sterling now.

Israel is not an apartheid nation. However, Lebanon and Syria are. Are you calling them the lowest of the low for their treatment of Palestinians?

 

[groggy]

Israel is not an apartheid nation. However, Lebanon and Syria are. Are you calling them the lowest of the low for their treatment of Palestinians?

Wait a second, your really fucked up in your definitions of race here.
You are now accusing Palestinians, who you also call 'Israeli Arabs' as being the victims of Arabs or Lebanese Arabs or Syrians.
Are you suggesting that Arab speaking Palestinians are a different race then Syrians or Lebanese?
If not, this is just another really fucked up attempt to deflect criticism by accusing the victims of the crimes you help happen.

I can't tell if you're Donald fuji Sterling, Pamella fuji Geller or you've been replaced by a cheaper, Harper funded foreign worker in your Hasbara troll persona.

 

[fuji]

Doesn't seem like anything you wrote gets the Syrians or the Lebanese off the hook. The Syrians and Lebanese subject Palestinians to systematic discrimination from cradle to grave, denying them status, access to education, heathcare, and jobs in the country of their birth.

Seems to upset you that we are discussing this....

 

[basketcase]

Israel is to be judged strictly on western dtandards, the Arabs oneastern standards. You cannot compare the two.

The morals of Victorian England. Just another example where we see the elitism of the aged North American socialist.

 

[basketcase]

Wait a second, your really fucked up in your definitions of race here....

So are you. Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israel. Aren't they the same race as Palestinians?

 

[groggy]

Doesn't seem like anything you wrote gets the Syrians or the Lebanese off the hook. .

You were blaming the PLO for this, not the Syrians or Lebanese.
But this is obviously not a racial matter nor a religious one, so cannot be apartheid.

The West Bank and Gaza are very clearly apartheid, but 'temporary' refugee camps cannot be claimed as such.

 

[fuji]

You were blaming the PLO for this, not the Syrians or Lebanese.

I am blaming all three. The PLO operate in this camps and in the West Bank and Gaza. The Lebanese and Syrians are complicit, as is the PA. They all collectively work to deny Palestinian refugees status, prevent them from accessing the normal health and education systems, and prevent them from being eligible for ordinary jobs.

It is offensive and it is apartheid, and your only weaselly and pathetic "defense" has been to admit that the horrendous, inexcusable systematic and institutionalized discrimination exists, but claim that it isn't apartheid because you say "Palestinian" doesn't count as a race.

 

[groggy]

I am blaming all three. The PLO operate in this camps and in the West Bank and Gaza. The Lebanese and Syrians are complicit, as is the PA. They all collectively work to deny Palestinian refugees status, prevent them from accessing the normal health and education systems, and prevent them from being eligible for ordinary jobs.

Can't be apartheid then, since its not systematic discrimination based on race or religion.

Now if you want to talk about separate roads, separate legal systems, full on walls and security checks and discrimination clearly based on race/religion we can have a debate on the one system that justifies the label, the Israeli occupation.

 

[fuji]

Can't be apartheid then, since its not systematic discrimination based on race or religion.

So you are denying that Palestinians are a race? And you think that systemic cradle to grave discrimination against them is OK, because they are not a race?

Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound?

 

[nottyboi]

Doesn't seem like anything you wrote gets the Syrians or the Lebanese off the hook. The Syrians and Lebanese subject Palestinians to systematic discrimination from cradle to grave, denying them status, access to education, heathcare, and jobs in the country of their birth.

Seems to upset you that we are discussing this....

Those countries do not get billions of dollars in support from the US and Germany. Also they don't claim to be democratic, progressive and do not aspire to be western liberal democracies.

 

[fuji]

Those countries do not get billions of dollars in support from the US and Germany. Also they don't claim to be democratic, progressive and do not aspire to be western liberal democracies.

So in your mind that makes their systematic cradle to grave discrimination against Palestinians acceptable?

By the way, the US and EU foot the bill, these countries do not.

 

[groggy]

So in your mind that makes their systematic cradle to grave discrimination against Palestinians acceptable?

By the way, the US and EU foot the bill, these countries do not.

Since you're so concerned about systematic cradle to grave discrimination against Palestinians, time for you to take a stand against Israel's apartheid policies.
But you're not, you're trying to a Rob Ford and pretend you're not an angry racist with a gun collection.

 

[fuji]

Since you're so concerned about systematic cradle to grave discrimination against Palestinians, time for you to take a stand against Israel's apartheid policies.
But you're not, you're trying to a Rob Ford and pretend you're not an angry racist with a gun collection.

Keep flailing and squirming, it is hilarious how hard you are trying to change the topic to Israel. Answer the question:

So you are denying that Palestinians are a race? And you think that systemic cradle to grave discrimination against them is OK, because they are not a race?