I will slow down ...
When did the Leafs win in relation to drafted players ?
Players drafted ... year ?
Leafs win Cup ... year ?
Thank you Brian Burke
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When did the Leafs win in relation to drafted players ?
Players drafted ... year ?
Leafs win Cup ... year ?
I have a question ...
Why did the Bruins try to sign Kessel and only after realizing they(Bruins and Kessel) were not likely to agree did the Bruins decide to trade him ?
Oh ga damn ....The Bruins were never going to sign Kessel at his price ($27/5 years) and were prepared to take the draft pick compensation for an offer sheet from another club (3 picks: 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the same draft). But blowhard Brian didn't believe in offer sheets (Dustin Penner situation) and since Chiarelli was his buddy he offered a 1st, a 2nd and another 1st in the next draft, and Boston quickly did the deal after picking their jaw off the floor. The other clubs interested in Kessel were the Rangers & Predators and they were going to go straight up offer sheet, so when Toronto offered the extra 1st it was a no-brainer.
The Bruins tried to sign Kessel, yes they had limits, but they did try to sign him.
So I repeat ... Why did the Bruins try to sign Kessel ?
Lets say Toronto trades Kadri this summer ( cause they don't think they want to pay him 5 million he will want in 2015 ) and gets a 1st round pick in 2014 ( which turns out to be a second overall pick ) and 1st round pick in 2015 and a second round pick in 2015 ... The result is they sign a could great free agent and in turn results in them winning the Cup in 2015 and a cup Final in 2016 . Would you think the Leafs won the trade even if Kadri tuns out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer ?If Toronto traded Kadri for 2 first round pics and a second round pic ( and one of those pics became a 2nd overall pick ) and in doing so we ( T.O ) won the Cup in the next couple of years ... Would you think the Leafs won the trade even if Kadri tuns out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer ?
Before you laugh .. Burke the man you all want to thank is working in Calgary ...
If Kadri was a consistent top 5 league scorer and helped make his team significantly better, then it is a classic win/win situation.If Toronto traded Kadri for 2 first round pics and a second round pic ( and one of those pics became a 2nd overall pick ) and in doing so we ( T.O ) won the Cup in the next couple of years ... Would you think the Leafs won the trade even if Kadri tuns out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer ?
Why does there have to be one winner and one loser? Why does a winner even have to be declared?
Please note where Ironhead feels compelled to declare Leafs the "big font" winner and others saying Bruins winning the cup (with minimal help from their Leaf acquisitions) clearly trumps however much Kessel helps the Leafs, my position has always been, without declaring a "winner", that Kessel has outperformed the pieces that went the other way and the Leafs have improved as well. That's good enough for me. No need to declare a winner and loser when both teams benefitted.
You are right .. We all can like or not like the trade but what is done is done ... Why people feel the need to bring it up by starting a thread is beyond me .. We can't undo the past and we presently have a top five scorer and are in a playoff spot and so look ahead .. The more team success the Leafs have the more Kessel will no longer be linked to that trade .If Kadri was a consistent top 5 league scorer and helped make his team significantly better, then it is a classic win/win situation.
Why does there have to be one winner and one loser? Why does a winner even have to be declared?
Please note where Ironhead feels compelled to declare Leafs the "big font" winner and others saying Bruins winning the cup (with minimal help from their Leaf acquisitions) clearly trumps however much Kessel helps the Leafs, my position has always been, without declaring a "winner", that Kessel has outperformed the pieces that went the other way and the Leafs have improved as well. That's good enough for me. No need to declare a winner and loser when both teams benefitted.
I said scorer... not value. Although I think the players that I mentioned still has more value.A player's value is increased if he is not prone to missing games.
A more talented player is useless if he is injured.
Anyway, nobody answered my question: Are the Leafs 100% better off with Kessel than Seguin, Hamilton and Knight? If the answer is no, then we do not know who won the trade yet. The fact that Boston traded away Seguin is irrelevant. If Toronto traded Kessel to Montreal for Rene Bourque and Montreal traded away Kessel a couple of years later, that doesn't mean that Toronto won the trade. That would still be a horrible trade for Toronto. I'm not saying that the Kessel trade was a horrible trade. I'm just saying that the fact that Seguin got traded away by Boston is irrelevant to the discussion.
Nonis should be fired if he hasn't called Burke and offered Kadri for 2 first's and a second. Burke might see a perennial 30 goal scorer in Kadri and go for it, as per the op.Lets say Toronto trades Kadri this summer ( cause they don't think they want to pay him 5 million he will want in 2015 ) and gets a 1st round pick in 2014 ( which turns out to be a second overall pick ) and 1st round pick in 2015 and a second round pick in 2015 ...
Before you laugh .. Burke the man you all want to thank is working in Calgary ...
Well, you should have said value because that encompasses all of a player's attributes whereas scoring is just one attribute.I said scorer... not value. Although I think the players that I mentioned still has more value.
Enjoy your opinion as this has been discussed to death.
I don't think that kessel would of come to TO as a free agent, look at how many free agents signed for less money elsewhere. Now that being said, because,IMHO, Kessel resigned, JVR can't thank Toronto enough for picking him and Bolland talking that he would like to resign with the Leafs might make other good star players look twice at Toronto.Does the fact that Kessel could have been a leaf for free this summer if they hadn't traded for him originally been discussed .
Lets face it we are not talking about the Ballard era were they look like there 1 or 2 players away from a serious run at the cup then dismantle the team (1977 after beating the Islanders...remember?). No, we are talking about a team that FINALLY has a good GM, good farm system ( thanks Brian Burke) a good core of young players, prospects and solid goal tendering.
The only 2 things that I see happening is, 1 the star players that do come don't ban out because they try to hard and try to do to much and 2nd the ownership. I don't trust Bell or Rodgers (I hate there services, cell, home phone, dish, you name it I hate it).
This whole arguement is based on " if's " ... As for Kessel not wanting to come here .. When he was traded to the Leafs he was a Free Agent ( that is why the Bruins traded him ) and he signed with the Leafs ..I don't think that kessel would of come to TO as a free agent, look at how many free agents signed for less money elsewhere. Now that being said, because,IMHO, Kessel resigned, JVR can't thank Toronto enough for picking him and Bolland talking that he would like to resign with the Leafs might make other good star players look twice at Toronto.
Lets face it we are not talking about the Ballard era were they look like there 1 or 2 players away from a serious run at the cup then dismantle the team (1977 after beating the Islanders...remember?). No, we are talking about a team that FINALLY has a good GM, good farm system ( thanks Brian Burke) a good core of young players, prospects and solid goal tendering.
The only 2 things that I see happening is, 1 the star players that do come don't ban out because they try to hard and try to do to much and 2nd the ownership. I don't trust Bell or Rodgers (I hate there services, cell, home phone, dish, you name it I hate it).
I have a slight problem with the way the question is worded but here it goes.Lets say Toronto trades Kadri this summer ( cause they don't think they want to pay him 5 million he will want in 2015 ) and gets a 1st round pick in 2014 ( which turns out to be a second overall pick ) and 1st round pick in 2015 and a second round pick in 2015 ... The result is they sign a could great free agent and in turn results in them winning the Cup in 2015 and a cup Final in 2016 . Would you think the Leafs won the trade even if Kadri tuns out to be a consistent 30 goal scorer ?
Before you laugh .. Burke the man you all want to thank is working in Calgary ...
Before I answer this question understand that Kadri and Kessel are different players.
I do not think any GM would give two firsts for Kadri. Also I do not have a name(s) to put to the draft picks.
First Toronto will always spend to the Cap, within reason(leaving a bit of room to make moves) so the 'free agent signing' would not be considered by me as anything to do with the trade. The money would be spent regardless, on Kadri or the FA.
Now the only players to be considered are Kadri(now on a different team) and the draft picks(now on the Leafs at different points of this play).
The 2015 picks would not even be apart of the team in any way to this point.
Leafs win 2015 Cup ... I guess you want the 2014 pick to be playing on the 2014/15 Leafs ...
Well the '14 pick is a healthy scratch several times during the regular season, and does not even play in half of the '15 Cup playoffs ...
Still to many variables to answer with any clarity.
There was no guarantee he would of re up with the leafs....he could of walk away and being from Boston area there was a pretty good chance he would of re up with the bruins.This whole arguement is based on " if's " ... As for Kessel not wanting to come here .. When he was traded to the Leafs he was a Free Agent ( that is why the Bruins traded him ) and he signed with the Leafs ..
Boston just loved what Burke was dangling in front of them for Kessel.
They didn't really, they made him a qualifying offer. They were looking for a "sign and trade" if the numbers were right. Didn't want to be stuck with a huge contract. The Boston Bruins were done with Phil Kessel.I have a question ...
Why did the Bruins try to sign Kessel and only after realizing they(Bruins and Kessel) were not likely to agree did the Bruins decide to trade him ?
Huh? The (Presidents Trophy Winning!!!)Bruins do not in any way want Phil Kessel.There was no guarantee he would of re up with the leafs....he could of walk away and being from Boston area there was a pretty good chance he would of re up with the bruins.
Boston just loved what Burke was dangling in front of them for Kessel.
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Seguin 84 points, +17, playoffs
Kessel 80 points, -5, no playoffs
So that makes it 2 if the last 3 seasons where Seguin is considered the better player. And yes Seguin with 67 points was considered better by more than half of insiders even when Kessel had 82 points. It's no debate now that he has more points.
Kessel 80 points, -5, no playoffs
So that makes it 2 if the last 3 seasons where Seguin is considered the better player. And yes Seguin with 67 points was considered better by more than half of insiders even when Kessel had 82 points. It's no debate now that he has more points.
Yep, Boston is way better off entering the playoffs with 2 effective 2 way forwards in smith and erikson, plus a solid young D in Hamilton.Huh? The (Pesidents Trophy Winning!!!)Bruins do not in any way want Phil Kessel.
Probably would have been better off with the more mature player Seguin has become, but as a championship level team that wants to ensure chemistry is good it was still an ok move to Dallas.
Boston doesn't want bad attitude players or poor leaders or poor two way players on their team -- another example being Kessel. Seguin used the trade to grow up... can't say Kessel used the deal to inspire his two way play.
Kessel was a major flop in the last 15 games. If you are a Leaf fan I would think his disappearing act during the last 20 or so games would be a concern considering his new contract. Yes he wasn't the only highly paid star that didn't produce during the playoff push, Ovie and St. Louis are two others that did fuck all for their teams when they should be leading their clubs.
I think we can say that it seems like Boston lost the trade with Dallas BUT won the trade with Toronto. The trade with Dallas was due to the salary cap and they still finished with the best record in the league. For people who say that Toronto won the trade, you really think that, at this point, Kessel is worth more than Seguin, Hamilton and Knight? Coz that was the trade. It was not a 3 way trade with Dallas. The Dallas trade was a loss for Boston but the Toronto trade was a win.
I'm not so sure you can say that about the trade with Dallas. Let's look at it objectively.I think we can say that it seems like Boston lost the trade with Dallas BUT won the trade with Toronto. The trade with Dallas was due to the salary cap and they still finished with the best record in the league. For people who say that Toronto won the trade, you really think that, at this point, Kessel is worth more than Seguin, Hamilton and Knight? Coz that was the trade. It was not a 3 way trade with Dallas. The Dallas trade was a loss for Boston but the Toronto trade was a win.
Dallas
Seguin is the best player in the trade. He had a breakout season and has established he is a budding superstar. He turned 22 in January.
Peverly may be done.
Button isn't ready, only played 26 games in the "A" this year.
Boston
Loui Eriksson is 28. He's developing chemistry with Soderberg, works the PP and PK, and moves seamlessly into Iggy's spot when needed.
Reilly Smith just turned 23. He scored 20 goals and has fit in well with Bergeron and Marchand
Matt Fraser played 14 games with the Bruins and fit in well. He had a nice year in Providence, and is only 23.
Joe Morrow shows some offensive ability, has decent size and is just 21.
Jury is still out but the trade looks pretty damn good for both teams.
The cap was a factor but there were other issues. Eriksson and Smith are more "Bruins type players" than Seguin.
I'd have to think both teams are very pleased to this point.
Agreed. That's why I used the word "seems" in my first sentence.I'm not so sure you can say that about the trade with Dallas. Let's look at it objectively.
Dallas
Seguin is the best player in the trade. He had a breakout season and has established he is a budding superstar. He turned 22 in January.
Peverly may be done.
Button isn't ready, only played 26 games in the "A" this year.
Boston
Loui Eriksson is 28. He's developing chemistry with Soderberg, works the PP and PK, and moves seamlessly into Iggy's spot when needed.
Reilly Smith just turned 23. He scored 20 goals and has fit in well with Bergeron and Marchand
Matt Fraser played 14 games with the Bruins and fit in well. He had a nice year in Providence, and is only 23.
Joe Morrow shows some offensive ability, has decent size and is just 21.
Jury is still out but the trade looks pretty damn good for both teams.
The cap was a factor but there were other issues. Eriksson and Smith are more "Bruins type players" than Seguin.
I'd have to think both teams are very pleased to this point.
