LIVE: Kiev mass riots
- Thread starter eznutz
- Start date
The problem is that modern Ukraine is a semi-artificial construct. For centuries the western Ukrainian speaking part of Ukraine was separated from the eastern Russian speaking part of Ukraine, indeed for close to two centuries western Ukraine was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. This goes in large part towards explaining the European looking focus of western Ukraine and the Moscow looking focus of eastern Ukraine. Then throw in the Crimea which historically was (at least since the days of Kievian-Rus) never part of Ukraine.
The other part of the problem is that it seems to be harder for politicians to steal from people who have internet. President's son is a billionaire http://yanukovich.info/oleksandr-yanukovych-assets/ and people seem to understand that it's their money and they are not happy.
live stream (mostly) http://espreso.tv/stream
five people are dead already
http://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...n-embassy-kiev-rally-against-us-meddling.html
There is always a geo-political angle to these protests. Whether it's an orange revolution. Pink revolution etc.... I can understand why many Ukraine people would not want to align itself with Russia. But why would you want to align yourself with the Euro ???? That's a ship that's going down. This is about NATO wanting to be able to place ICBM's on Russia's border. It's not about joining the Euro.
BS
There is always a geo-political angle to these protests. Whether it's an orange revolution. Pink revolution etc.... I can understand why many Ukraine people would not want to align itself with Russia. But why would you want to align yourself with the Euro ???? That's a ship that's going down. This is about NATO wanting to be able to place ICBM's on Russia's border. It's not about joining the Euro.
BS
Big Sleazy, before you buy into what the Strategic Culture Foundation (a creature of the Kremlin) has to say, re-read #3 above.
This all has far more to due with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Polish - Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 13th through the 16th centuries and the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 18th through the 20th centuries and on the other hand first Muscovy and then the Russian Empire than it does about missiles.
This all has far more to due with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Polish - Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 13th through the 16th centuries and the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 18th through the 20th centuries and on the other hand first Muscovy and then the Russian Empire than it does about missiles.
Add a culture of intolerance by the Ukrainian speaking nationalists who see Russian as the "language of oppression" and are intent on disallowing it as an official language in the new Ukraine. Add massive government corruption and inefficiency at all levels. Add a stumbling economy. Add horrendous racism and antisemitism.
Ukraine seems well on its way to being a failed nation.
Ukraine seems well on its way to being a failed nation.
It is sort of mutal there is no great love in the eastern Russian speaking part of Ukraine for the western Ukrainian speaking part.
Frankly (although I don't believe that either side would agree to it) they probably would be better off if eastern Ukraine and the Crimea became part of Russia.
I'm sure they would fight over the dividing line. As well, parts of the Western Ukraine - i.e Odessa - are purely Russian speaking as well. And it would leave the western Ukraine economically nonviable, I suspect. Sort of a southern Belarus.
And the Eastern Ukraine would be submerged in the far larger, Moscow-driven Russian whole, if they amalgamated w Russia.
If ever there was a case for bilingualism and a federal constitution, the Ukraine would certainly be it.
You make good points, a larger problem remains that until about 1944 they really hadn't shared anything in common since the late 1100's. It in many ways has been and is somewhat like trying to re-cobble together the Angevin Empire.
A major question would be who retained Kiev which is one of the few bilingual areas in the country.
Ukraine is openly texting its citizens to tell them when they’ve been spotted protesting against the government.
Using phone technology that identifies any cell phone that happens to be adjacent to where protesters are clashing
with the uniformed officers of the state. (Protesting, you see, has suddenly been made illegal.)
“Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance.”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-5...izens-hey-we-see-youre-in-a-mass-disturbance/
Using phone technology that identifies any cell phone that happens to be adjacent to where protesters are clashing
with the uniformed officers of the state. (Protesting, you see, has suddenly been made illegal.)
“Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance.”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-5...izens-hey-we-see-youre-in-a-mass-disturbance/
Just another fine mess perpetrated by the adorable Vlad Putin on the buildup to Sochi. Is Canada prepared for what could be a bloodbath? The Americans have a fleet in the Black Sea to evacuate their citizens, what are we doing?
Exactly why the NSA should be stopped from collecting cellphone and email data.
Doesn't take much to use that data to arrest protesters for taking part in an 'illegal' protest.
If you thought the G20 was bad.....
Putin is a bully...he has manipulated the course of the elections by 1) being President and when his term is finished, 2) being Prime Minister and he was calling the shots anyway!! and when that term is finished he can run again for President and vice versa...he will do this till 2024...the west calls this democracy...? Also if Ukraine don't comply with his request that they align with Russia he will cut off oil supply to them.
It doesn't have anything to do with language, culture or divisions within the country - yeah right :frusty:
Who on earth supposedly believes that everything above is an either/or, most of the items mentioned above combine with other items mentioned above to form the whole.
Likewise, how on earth can you say that Viktor Fedorovych Yanukovych, and the Party of Regions do not draw their support from the Eastern Russophone and Russophile part of Ukraine of course they do, just as Viktor Andriyovych Yushchenko and Our Ukraine–People's Self-Defense Bloc as well as Yulia Volodymyrivna Tymoshenko and the All-Ukrainian Union "Motherland" drew and draw their support from the Ukrainophone and Europhile Western Ukraine with the middle regions around Kiev primarily providing the "swing votes."
Ukrainians protest like they do because they can compare their obscenely corrupted government vs relatively honest and transparent western governments. Torontonians didn't and don't have such a reference point. Western democracy is not perfect but no one seems to have a better concept.
