Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?

[JohnLarue]

what is your opinion of vouchers ?

seems to me this would solve everything as you now choose your poison and if you choose wrong that is your fault

Please explain how vouchers would reduce the costs for the taxpayer ?
Will every child in the province still have an equal opportunity to gain an education, rich or poor?

 

[FAST]

60 minutes in an hour

I never joined the union.

Didn't join a union,...thought you said you spent 14 hr days as a teacher, how does one do THAT???

I don't know long all the other teachers worked...and neither do you.

But I do know how long these teachers worked,...always home way before me, sitting by the pool,...and these are good people, some even bought food for kids in school in poor neighbour hoods, plus teachers in my extended family,...do NOT tell me I don't know the hrs they worked.
I raced against one at Mosport, good guy, got to know him well, with a lot more free time on his hands than me.
No way in hell teachers are putting 14 hr days now,...if ever.

Does the teaching profession deserve more respect? Absolutely. Do some teachers need to leave the profession? Absolutely.

Funny you bring up teachers deserving more respect,...did it not cross you brain that they have been steadily LOSING respect.
But I guess the courses they took didn't teach them that respect is earned,...NOT demanded,...like exorbitant wages and benefits.

FAST

 

[DTECanada]

Didn't join a union,...thought you said you spent 14 hr days as a teacher, how does one do THAT???

But I do know how long these teachers worked,...always home way before me, sitting by the pool,...and these are good people, some even bought food for kids in school in poor neighbour hoods, plus teachers in my extended family,...do NOT tell me I don't know the hrs they worked.
I raced against one at Mosport, good guy, got to know him well, with a lot more free time on his hands than me.
No way in hell teachers are putting 14 hr days now,...if ever.

Funny you bring up teachers deserving more respect,...did it not cross you brain that they have been steadily LOSING respect.
But I guess the courses they took didn't teach them that respect is earned,...NOT demanded,...like exorbitant wages and benefits.

FAST

How does one work 14 hours a day? I guess you will never know.

Have no idea how you equate me not being in a union with my working 12-14 hours a day.

You knew 3 teachers so you know better than someone who worked with dozens. Okay, love that logic.

Teachers are losing respect. Never said they weren't. But they've never really had it in our lifetime anyway.

But hey, if you think that people who dedicate their lives to teaching children is not worthy of respect...well, I wonder what work you consider worthy of respect.

You seem to confuse, to some degree understandably so, the actions of a union with those of teachers. But if you think people who chase a ball are worth millions and people who dedicate their lives to children shouldn't get paid well, then...I'm glad I don't have your values.

I'm not telling you the hours your neighbours worked. You've made it clear that you enjoyed hanging out with them yet they were slouches at the job. Fine.

I did it. I saw others do it. You have called me a liar based on the actions of your lazy neighbours. You have no cause to question my experience nor the dedication I showed to my kids. You are disrespectful and illogical and have no place in a discussion as important as this, so I bid you and your hatred and disrespect adieu.

Do not ever attempt to converse with me again because I prefer to deal with people with some sense of honour and respect.

 

[Facman]

You can't justify Fraud. Teachers are breaking the LAW as established by Act of parliament by democratically elected members of parliament who represent the majority of the wishes of Citizens and taxpayers.

 

[JohnLarue]

How does one work 14 hours a day? I guess you will never know.

Have no idea how you equate me not being in a union with my working 12-14 hours a day.

You knew 3 teachers so you know better than someone who worked with dozens. Okay, love that logic.

Teachers are losing respect. Never said they weren't. But they've never really had it in our lifetime anyway.

But hey, if you think that people who dedicate their lives to teaching children is not worthy of respect...well, I wonder what work you consider worthy of respect.

You seem to confuse, to some degree understandably so, the actions of a union with those of teachers. But if you think people who chase a ball are worth millions and people who dedicate their lives to children shouldn't get paid well, then...I'm glad I don't have your values.

I'm not telling you the hours your neighbours worked. You've made it clear that you enjoyed hanging out with them yet they were slouches at the job. Fine.

I did it. I saw others do it. You have called me a liar based on the actions of your lazy neighbours. You have no cause to question my experience nor the dedication I showed to my kids. You are disrespectful and illogical and have no place in a discussion as important as this, so I bid you and your hatred and disrespect adieu.

Do not ever attempt to converse with me again because I prefer to deal with people with some sense of honour and respect.

So you only prefer to converse with those that agree with you ?
Again, when confronted with tough questions, you take your ball and go home?

Look, when you get involved in a heated topic and take a strong stand on an issue, you have to expect some heat
If you want respect, earn it
Grow some balls and fight back

Something does not add up here
You were a teacher, but not a union member?
My understanding is that one is dependant upon the other
Clarify, please

 

[FAST]

Have no idea how you equate me not being in a union with my working 12-14 hours a day.


Teachers are losing respect. Never said they weren't. .

You have called me a liar based on the actions of your lazy neighbours. You have no cause to question my experience nor the dedication I showed to my kids. You are disrespectful and illogical and have no place in a discussion as important as this, so I bid you and your hatred and disrespect adieu.

Do not ever attempt to converse with me again because I prefer to deal with people with some sense of honour and respect.

And your some one with a sense of honour,...I never said you did not work 14 hr days,...but you said you did not join the union, yet you were a teacher who put in 14 hr days,...your are then a bold face liar,...

"Honour and respect for you,...a discussion as important as this,... hatred",...dude,...your so full of your self, you don't even realize how ridicules you sound.

On thing we can agree on, do not reply to my posts,...as I will NOT reply to yours,...you have been put on the "losers list".

FAST


FAST

 

[DTECanada]

Simple solution: All of you who are complaining about how entitled, wealthy, uneducated and lazy teachers are should quit your jobs tomorrow and go do it yourself. No, don't respond and blubber about how you should because you can do a better job blah blah blah. Shut up, get off terb, and go get a teaching job. Once you are all there, you can go disband the union, demand your pay be cut and the school year to be year-round. Or, if you so desire, keep things just the way they are and boast about how rich you are getting for doing nothing. Your choice.
Go. Now. Do it. Then come back after you've done it for five years and tell everyone about your experiences. Until then, keep your uneducated, inexperienced opinions to yourself. Problem solved. I truly hope you all become good educators and improve the system. I look forward to hearing your success stories.

 

[mur11]

Simple solution: All of you who are complaining about how entitled, wealthy, uneducated and lazy teachers are should quit your jobs tomorrow and go do it yourself. No, don't respond and blubber about how you should because you can do a better job blah blah blah. Shut up, get off terb, and go get a teaching job. Once you are all there, you can go disband the union, demand your pay be cut and the school year to be year-round. Or, if you so desire, keep things just the way they are and boast about how rich you are getting for doing nothing. Your choice.
Go. Now. Do it. Then come back after you've done it for five years and tell everyone about your experiences. Until then, keep your uneducated, inexperienced opinions to yourself. Problem solved. I truly hope you all become good educators and improve the system. I look forward to hearing your success stories.

Can you actually answer the queston about how you were (are?) a teacher and yet not part of the union? My parents were teachers, and my father at least was active in the union, and I always got the impression that you had to be at least a nominal member of the union if you were a teacher. Did you opt out? If so why?

For the record, I agree with most of your points, and think the pathological hatred that people like John and FAST have for teachers is actually kind of pathetic and completely obscures the valid points they make (well John at least, FAST is just an idiot and the less we say about Yoga, the graduate of YouTube university the better). But I am curious about the union thing

I do love how people in this thread bitch about teachers hanging out in bars, by pools etc. and yet by telling these universally representative (sarcasm) stories, acknowledge that themselves are at whatever pool or bar, or equally ridiculous destination themselves, thereby effectively neutering their point that they work much harder than teachers do.

 

[CTSblues]

Can you actually answer the queston about how you were (are?) a teacher and yet not part of the union? My parents were teachers, and my father at least was active in the union, and I always got the impression that you had to be at least a nominal member of the union if you were a teacher. Did you opt out? If so why?

For the record, I agree with most of your points, and think the pathological hatred that people like John and FAST have for teachers is actually kind of pathetic and completely obscures the valid points they make (well John at least, FAST is just an idiot and the less we say about Yoga, the graduate of YouTube university the better). But I am curious about the union thing

I do love how people in this thread bitch about teachers hanging out in bars, by pools etc. and yet by telling these universally representative (sarcasm) stories, acknowledge that themselves are at whatever pool or bar, or equally ridiculous destination themselves, thereby effectively neutering their point that they work much harder than teachers do.

My understanding is that you do not need teaching qualification to teach in private schools. Without teaching qualifications I assume you can not join the union. At least this is how it works when my kids were in school.

DTE is absolutely frustrated with the low IQ type. I always know these people are limited, but I have forgotten how limited thy are.

Lake Woebegone, where are you?

 

[FAST]

The truth hurts

Can you actually answer the question about how you were (are?) a teacher and yet not part of the union? My parents were teachers, and my father at least was active in the union, and I always got the impression that you had to be at least a nominal member of the union if you were a teacher. Did you opt out? If so why?

For the record, I agree with most of your points, and think the pathological hatred that people like John and FAST have for teachers is actually kind of pathetic and completely obscures the valid points they make (well John at least, FAST is just an idiot and the less we say about Yoga, the graduate of YouTube university the better). But I am curious about the union thing

I do love how people in this thread bitch about teachers hanging out in bars, by pools etc. and yet by telling these universally representative (sarcasm) stories, acknowledge that themselves are at whatever pool or bar, or equally ridiculous destination themselves, thereby effectively neutering their point that they work much harder than teachers do.

NO,...JERK,... your hero cannot answer the union question,...because he is simply a bold faced liar,....IF,...big if,....he was a private school teacher,...then EVERYTHING he said,...is meaningless,...and utter BULL SHIT, and is still a bold faced liar.
So if you want to continue propping up your failure teach, be my guest,...but its obvious you are also feeling the heat from the general public, with your indignant attitude.
AND,… obviously you have a lot of trouble grasping the most simplest of concepts,...if I enjoyed a number of teachers company,...7 actually,...how the hell would I have hatred towards teachers, its NOT about teachers as individuals,...IDIOT.
If you actually read my posts,...and had at least average intelligence,...you would understand what's being discussed here, …so if you need some help,…please let me know.

FAST

 

[JohnLarue]

No....

My understanding, from talking to a few teachers that work in Private schools, is that every teacher is hired into a Private school on a one-on-one basis. They definitely need qualifications to be hired - and, are rewarded handsomely for additional degrees (masters, etc.). But, different salaries/contracts could be offered to all the various people on the private school's staff.

However, I've been told there is no teacher's union in private schools. Hence, no union to join..

Clarified now?

So if DTECanada was a teacher, and did not join the union it makes sense to conclude:
1. He may have been a private school teacher and / or
2. He was not a public school teacher in Ontario (perhaps elsewhere)

Either way one may conclude his experience is not as relevant to this discussion as he has led us to believe

 

[JohnLarue]

Simple solution: All of you who are complaining about how entitled, wealthy, uneducated and lazy teachers are should quit your jobs tomorrow and go do it yourself. No, don't respond and blubber about how you should because you can do a better job blah blah blah. Shut up, get off terb, and go get a teaching job. Once you are all there, you can go disband the union, demand your pay be cut and the school year to be year-round. Or, if you so desire, keep things just the way they are and boast about how rich you are getting for doing nothing. Your choice.
Go. Now. Do it. Then come back after you've done it for five years and tell everyone about your experiences. Until then, keep your uneducated, inexperienced opinions to yourself. Problem solved. I truly hope you all become good educators and improve the system. I look forward to hearing your success stories.

Sure, sign me up.
Just as soon as we find a teacher willing to resign from the union and replace that $83K a year salary + benefits + the summer off+ give up the pension in the real world
What a stupid thing to say

 

[DTECanada]

Can you actually answer the queston about how you were (are?) a teacher and yet not part of the union? My parents were teachers, and my father at least was active in the union, and I always got the impression that you had to be at least a nominal member of the union if you were a teacher. Did you opt out? If so why?

For the record, I agree with most of your points, and think the pathological hatred that people like John and FAST have for teachers is actually kind of pathetic and completely obscures the valid points they make (well John at least, FAST is just an idiot and the less we say about Yoga, the graduate of YouTube university the better). But I am curious about the union thing

I do love how people in this thread bitch about teachers hanging out in bars, by pools etc. and yet by telling these universally representative (sarcasm) stories, acknowledge that themselves are at whatever pool or bar, or equally ridiculous destination themselves, thereby effectively neutering their point that they work much harder than teachers do.

When I taught in public school I was never even approached by anyone from the union and never sought them out. Why this was the case I do not know. There was no union at the private school. I appreciate what unions in general can do for lone employees who might be taken advantage of, but am dismayed that they have become like other organisations they sometimes lose sight of their noble beginnings and become about power. By no means are they alone in that.
JL and FAST are offensive. JL suggesting the use of children as pawns and Fast calling me a liar. Generally yoga simply attempts, in his own...unique...way, to stick to the argument; which is better than attacking someone's honour. I think the kids are important to Yoga, while others simply wish to attempt to play a game of gotcha by ignoring people's solid points and twisting what they can. Very sad. I try to find solace in the better people on terb.

 

[JohnLarue]

JL suggesting the use of children as pawns .

What would you call it?
Teachers withdrew service for these kids in order to pressure the govt to meet their demands.

Absolutely despicable behaviour
And you feel they are not respected enough ?

 

[CTSblues]

No....

My understanding, from talking to a few teachers that work in Private schools, is that every teacher is hired into a Private school on a one-on-one basis. They definitely need qualifications to be hired - and, are rewarded handsomely for additional degrees (masters, etc.). But, different salaries/contracts could be offered to all the various people on the private school's staff.

However, I've been told there is no teacher's union in private schools. Hence, no union to join..

Clarified now?

Have a look here:

Ontario’s private schools are not required by law to hire certified teachers, although many prefer that teachers be certified.

http://www.teachinontario.ca/tio/en/privateschools.htm

Please do not rely on anecdotal evidence. The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[Yoga Face]

Please explain how vouchers would reduce the costs for the taxpayer ?

before I can state if vouchers would save money we have to know what public education costs are

no one knows the complete and total costs so that has to be figured out but i suspect vouchers would be cheaper from what loose numbers I have seen

Will every child in the province still have an equal opportunity to gain an education, rich or poor?

even more so


public schools will still be there but now competing for the vouchers

and u r a fan of competition no doubt

a parent could add to the vouchers for boarding schools ( or whatever) now putting almost any kind of education available to the average income
(that along with private bursaries, schools that have the students actually do work like maintenance cutting costs down - use your imagination) which would allow inner city kids to escape from gang pressures, give gays a chance to be themselves , the list is a big one


but it would also allow alternative concepts to develop (IE montessori, waldorf etc) because there will be more monies for alternative school concepts which would encourage alternative ideas from some very bright thinkers

these alternative concepts are out of the reach of a heavy public school bureaucracy as there are problems in public schools that r systemic therefore cannot be corrected

 

[Yoga Face]

Yoga, the Lord's Prayer will never ever be mandatory in a public school. My point in saying there's nothing wrong it in and of itself lies in "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." A nice sentiment.
.

I repeat that u r SURPRISINGLY NAIVE

a depression, economic collapse, civil strife etc will change everything

things have a way of going full circle

our admiration of private schools should tell you that some of the best private schools are religious (generally Catholic). Many non-Catholics attend these schools specifically because of the quality of their education...and they are not forced to be Catholic. I actually taught at a private school that was run by Catholics (though not by the Catholic Church). I received zero interference when I taught The Reformation. The school also had a great grading system. No letter grades. I had to write a narrative on every one of my hundred-plus students on how they were progressing. I loved it, but it was excruciatingly difficult.

You paint all religious people with the same brush, which is intolerant...yet you seem to want tolerance.

You, and others, have pointed to the absolute power of teacher's unions but then you say they don't run the schools.

Too many contradictions.

You have many valid concerns, but are too paranoid.

If there is one thing I am not, it's naive. This ain't my first rodeo, as some say.

I believe in freedom

to take away freedom of education affects your life and that of your family like few things do

to take away this vital freedom of education the argument has to be compelling

u have not presented a compelling argument


your belief that we need forced inclusive schools is weak because


1 freedom of vouchers does not mean everyone will segregate . Most private schools are inclusive


2 your belief that if some do segregate society will be harmed is theoretical

 

[Yoga Face]

Except smaller communities will still have the exact same choices they have now; either drive a long distance or go to the local school and big communities already have a variet of choice so your argument is moot..

no


private schools can be much smaller (ie home schooling) and flexible than a huge bureaucracy

Are you suggesting that in our climate of increasing diversity, the supreme court will reverse their ruling and favour one faith? the only way they would allow that is if the school was 100% supportive which will only happen if parents self select - ala vouchers.

I am saying we are giving power to big brother to tell us what to think


bad idea

 

[DTECanada]

I repeat that u r SURPRISINGLY NAIVE

a depression, economic collapse, civil strife etc will change everything

things have a way of going full circle




I believe in freedom

to take away freedom of education affects your life and that of your family like few things do

to take away this vital freedom of education the argument has to be compelling

u have not presented a compelling argument


your belief that we need forced inclusive schools is weak because


1 freedom of vouchers does not mean everyone will segregate . Most private schools are inclusive


2 your belief that if some do segregate society will be harmed is theoretical

1) never said no vouchers
2) all of your arguments are theoretical (pot...kettle...black)
3) if there is a serious economic collapse and civil strife, we will have a lot more to worry about than The Lord's Prayer

You pay little or no attention to arguments of weight that are different than yours because you are not willing to listen, you change what was said to continue the argument based on false premises. In fact you pay little or no attention even on points where we agree.
Sorry, gotta let you go. Good luck in your worthy endeavors.

 

[Yoga Face]

1) never said no vouchers
2) all of your arguments are theoretical (pot...kettle...black)
3) if there is a serious economic collapse and civil strife, we will have a lot more to worry about than The Lord's Prayer

You pay little or no attention to arguments of weight that are different than yours because you are not willing to listen, you change what was said to continue the argument based on false premises. In fact you pay little or no attention even on points where we agree.
Sorry, gotta let you go. Good luck in your worthy endeavors.

that u r a teacher means u know how to think abstractly so I give your opinion about me some weight


I agree my thoughts are theoretical and I could be wrong

the idea that kids are put into an environment that abuses them is something I cannot let go of


I feel the bottom line is this idea needs serious debate from intellectuals and the public

oh yeah, another point

I do not need proof for why we should have freedom

proof is needed as to why freedoms should be taken away