Third win for Mayor Ford!

[oldjones]

Trouble is—as all the brouhaha shows—pretty much all that stuff is about judgement calls. Ford shows demonstrably horrible judgement everywhere you look, but because Council was kind, and the exact line vague, he skated on what everyone in authority has judged was a conflict. Giving the Ombudsman or Integrity Commissioner the power and funding to take offenders to Court, or run some tribunal of their own might help, but the tax-bills would up even more than Mr. Gravy's raising them.

Same sort of thing with election financing: You cannot make clean clear lines, although the tax-funded version of financing the Cons kiboshed so they could run their in-and-out scheme and all their other 'innovative' campaign operations and funding schemes, both Wright and Wrong was a decent start. The trouble is still that if policing is all that's keeping the pols honest; we have no Elections Police. We have only an afterthought office that again is unfunded, within Elections Canada, an agency whose mission statement rightly focusses on enabling the most voters the freest choice, not on surveillance, suspicion and restriction.

The thought that we need Super Police to keep our governors honest should scare the hell out of us. Who elects these guys?

 

[eznutz]

Clayton Ruby after finding out that the SCC won't hear his case...

 

[train]

What a waste of court time this whole episode has been. Thank you Mr Ruby, please have your client pay court costs before you leave .

 

[oldjones]

What a waste of court time this whole episode has been. Thank you Mr Ruby, please have your client pay court costs before you leave .

IYHO. In fact the episode made it crystal clear: The one and only thing that kept Rob in office was that Council ordered him to pay back the three thou himself. If they'd just docked his pay by that amount, or whatever punitive amount was reasonable, we'd have a different Mayor now.

A lesson worth learning, and not a penny of taxpayer cost, apart from the paycheques Rob cashed for his time talking to lawyers and sitting in courts—likely a good deal more than $3,150. What Magder will have to pay for Rob's filing at the SCC I can't say, but Rob's on his own hook for the price of his skate in the lower court.

 

[slowandeasy]

Seems to me this whole business is a loss for citizens.
With the lot of people in power right now, I'd like to see stricter laws on conflict of interest, election financing and expenses.
Put anyone who screws us over out of power and into jail, regardless of party.

Instead we get people cheering for conflict of interest turning into acceptable policy.

As with the Senate scandal, the rules of conduct are already in place, they are just not enforced very strongly.
My understanding is that if they took the letter of the law, then councilors are in a conflict of interest on a weekly basis.
I had raised the point about the councilors voting to increase their own salary, does that not seem to be a conflict of interest?


For me, the interesting things about this whole nasty conflict of interest business are:
1. That Ford voted on whether he should have to repay the money or not.
2. That the conflict of interest was not pursued by a city councilor, but by a private citizen.
Did the other city councilors not recognize this conflict??
Did we just waste all that court cost (Ford has to pay his legal fees, Magder is getting free legal services, but
who pays the court cost and how much are they) pursuing a case just because people hate Rob Ford?

In terms of conflict of interest, Ford violated the letter of the rule, but not really the
intent as he did not directly receive the benefit. But he did vote on whether he should have
been repaid, and while I am not an expert, that is why he should have been tossed out of office.

 

[red]

As with the Senate scandal, the rules of conduct are already in place, they are just not enforced very strongly.
My understanding is that if they took the letter of the law, then councilors are in a conflict of interest on a weekly basis.
I had raised the point about the councilors voting to increase their own salary, does that not seem to be a conflict of interest?


For me, the interesting things about this whole nasty conflict of interest business are:
1. That Ford voted on whether he should have to repay the money or not.
2. That the conflict of interest was not pursued by a city councilor, but by a private citizen.
Did the other city councilors not recognize this conflict??
Did we just waste all that court cost (Ford has to pay his legal fees, Magder is getting free legal services, but
who pays the court cost and how much are they) pursuing a case just because people hate Rob Ford?

In terms of conflict of interest, Ford violated the letter of the rule, but not really the
intent as he did not directly receive the benefit. But he did vote on whether he should have
been repaid, and while I am not an expert, that is why he should have been tossed out of office.

i agree. its like raymond cho- voted against the casino because his wife told she would divorce him if he didn't- so had a risk of significant financial loss if he voted for the casino. according to the letter of the law- he shouldn;t have voted but he did.

 

[oldjones]

As with the Senate scandal, the rules of conduct are already in place, they are just not enforced very strongly.
My understanding is that if they took the letter of the law, then councilors are in a conflict of interest on a weekly basis.
I had raised the point about the councilors voting to increase their own salary, does that not seem to be a conflict of interest?


For me, the interesting things about this whole nasty conflict of interest business are:
1. That Ford voted on whether he should have to repay the money or not.
2. That the conflict of interest was not pursued by a city councilor, but by a private citizen.
Did the other city councilors not recognize this conflict??
Did we just waste all that court cost (Ford has to pay his legal fees, Magder is getting free legal services, but
who pays the court cost and how much are they) pursuing a case just because people hate Rob Ford?

In terms of conflict of interest, Ford violated the letter of the rule, but not really the
intent as he did not directly receive the benefit. But he did vote on whether he should have
been repaid, and while I am not an expert, that is why he should have been tossed out of office.

If I have it right: The previous Council voted to discipline Councillor Ford by ordering him to give back the money. Don't know if he spoke and voted then but the judge pointed out the natural justice of allowing a person to speak in their own defence. He didn't pay. He was elected mayor. He got his people into the various Council jobs, including Frances Nunziata as Speaker. A motion to undo Council's previous decision was allowed, debated voted on and passed. Rob did speak and vote for it.

IF there was going to be a Council ruling that he couldn't speak or vote, that would have to be made by Nunziata. She didn't. Perhaps because she was his appointee, perhaps because the people who govern our City are supposed to be adult and mature enough to know the rules and abide by them with only a bare minimum of policing, which stifles frank debate. Rob did admit to never reading the rules, and never explained how his version of what's proper and everyone else's were so different.

BUT: That vote is only the last of the wheels coming off. The sin that got him disciplined—well they tried to discipline him—was using his Councillor's power and letterhead to ask City Hall lobbyists to do him the favour of making generous donations to his personal football charity. Not that he'd ever think of returning the favour if and when they wanted something…. Not Rob. He knows how to keep City business and his private interests separate.

No authority involved has supported Rob's view that all that was innocent and forgiveable. The only reason the Appeal Court let him off is because Council got creative with their discipline, and they had no authority to. Doesn't matter if you speak to something that never should have been brought up. But it was the punishment not the crime that saved Rob. Voting on a penalty that isn't proper is no sin. A stiffer fine taken outta his pay would have been proper, stood the test and shown him the door.

We all pay for the Courts, there is no other way we can all get justice. Rob, the wrongdoer pays for his smart lawyer, who is free to waive his bill as Ruby did. The Appeal Court did not see anything unjust in having each party pay their own freight, same at first instance where Rob lost. The Supremes, did say 'you shoulda accepted the verdict' and stuck Magder with the cost of sending Rob's lawyer to Ottawa for a day.

The real cost isn't measured in dollars: What is the cost of a system that cannot deal with an unprincipled Councillor using his position for his own interests, and needs partisan citizens to do the job?

 

[GameBoy27]

This sums it up!

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/20/take-a-pill-ford-haters

With the Supreme Court of Canada refusing to hear lawyer Clayton Ruby’s and client Paul Magder’s “Hail Mary” attempt to have Mayor Rob Ford removed from office, it’s time for the anti-Ford nation to take a Valium.

It’s also time to start calling Ford’s alleged conflict of interest case what it has turned out to be, a non-conflict of interest case.

Ford’s political fate will now be determined by voters in next year’s municipal election, as it should be.

From the beginning, the whole idea Ford could be removed from office because he voted in favour of not returning $3,150 he raised from business donors for his charitable football foundation, was absurd.

The real problem is the poorly written Municipal Conflict of Interest Act, provincial legislation which everyone from Ford to Premier Kathleen Wynne agrees needs to be amended. So amend it.

One of the key changes needed is to give judges alternative ways to punish politicians found in violation of the act, short of the nuclear option of removing them from office.

Another is amending the law so that the onus of enforcing it is not placed on private citizens but the Crown, which will also reduce frivolous complaints.

Beyond that, anti-Ford political activists who have never accepted Ford as mayor, or for that matter the results of the 2010 municipal election, should stop trying to achieve through the courts what they could not accomplish at the polls.

Ford himself should stop acting like a bull in a china shop at City Hall.

If he had originally followed the advice of his own political allies on council not to vote on the issue of whether to return the $3,150 in donations — a vote he would have handily won, regardless — he could have avoided this entire mess.

Finally, it’s time to stop listening to Ford’s increasingly hysterical critics who keep insisting City Hall is paralyzed because Ford won’t listen to them and quit.

Nonsense. In you want to talk about real municipal crises, look to Montreal, Laval and London, where mayors and ex-mayors are facing criminal charges involving allegations of everything from corruption to fraud, bribery and gangsterism.

By contrast, Ford’s fate will be decided, properly, at the polls.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I think you mean his daddy's business.

Yes, as Lomotil has pointed out, his daddy has been dead a # of years, and the boys haven't run it to the ground or ruined its reputation. Must you lefties and anti-Ford people look for any reason to try to shoot him down? It's democracy. Live with him until the next election.

 

[GPIDEAL]

This sums it up!

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/20/take-a-pill-ford-haters

Yes, but many councillors at the opposite end of the political spectrum don't want to listen to Ford.

 

[GPIDEAL]

IYHO. In fact the episode made it crystal clear: The one and only thing that kept Rob in office was that Council ordered him to pay back the three thou himself. If they'd just docked his pay by that amount, or whatever punitive amount was reasonable, we'd have a different Mayor now.

What do you mean if they had docked his pay, we'd have a different Mayor? You can't dock anybody's pay unless by court-ordered garnishment. The only thing he did wrong was vote on the issue.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Daddy built the business. The scions just suck at its tit and haven't grown it the way daddy did.

Nothing wrong with that, daddy provided well for his family. But don't promote either Robby or Dougie as business men, they haven't done anything of note in business.

How the hell do you know? These boys could just suck at the tit but they choose to do public service. Says way more about their character than you.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Correction: daddy's business.

No you ignoramus. Their FAMILY business. Their father was the founder and built it, but the boys have been involved since little ones. In his later years, Douglas Ford Senior was an M.P.P.

Keep trying to destroy their reputation you Ford hater.

 

[GPIDEAL]

A fool and their money is soon parted.

Their business flourishes, so who's the fool?

 

[GPIDEAL]

The SCC takes very few cases and those are generally on major general points of law important to a wide range of litigants. This case was a 1-off case largely confined to its own facts. Ruby was right. Magder should have walked away after the Ont CA decision, but didn't. No one with any familiarity with the Justice system expected the SCC to accept this case for a full hearing.

The win for Ford was predictable. He gets his costs for only the lost motion by Magder for leave to proceed to a full hearing. It's a predictable, small win gained from a tactical mistake by an over-zealous opponent.

Well said.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Their business flourishes, so who's the fool?

The fool is the one who's business doesnt flourish.
And the even bigger fool is the one who attacks the one who's business does flourish.



(thats a statement in general, not against you GPIDEAL)

 

[oldjones]

Yes, but many councillors at the opposite end of the political spectrum don't want to listen to Ford.

If he had something convincing, persuasive or even sensible to say, everyone would listen, if only to refute him.

But sign on as sheep to blindly follow on whatever blundering pointless path—free private subways, subways, subways, running on gravy, and every tax going down? Even the allies he started with aren't buying that any more.

Point to an example of a previous Council passively doing as the Mayor said, otherwise accept it: Business as usual at 100 Queen W.

 

[oldjones]

How the hell do you know? These boys could just suck at the tit but they choose to do public service. Says way more about their character than you.

Where are the facts to support that claim? Rob dropped out of university; the only job he's ever had is the a year and a bit at the FAMILY label plant doing 'sales'. If Doug was doing 'service' other than rescuing Wee Robbie, and making money making labels, you'll have to tell us about it. Meantime Dad's old election machine was being oiled up to drop Rob into the other FAMILY business: Etobicoke ward politics where his buffoonery and bombast made Mayor Holyday quite testy on many a recorded occasion. Apart from that 'sales' gig Rob's paycheques have always come from the public teat. It's no wonder he treated his Council gig as his by right and used his City letterhead to beg favours from lobbyists.

One can only speculate about why the oldest Ford might have found the label business getting boring, but if he wanted into the other FAMILY business, the current occupant was in the way. What better time to stoke baby bros' ego and take advantage of the times to run him as Mayor. With only Gino-Boy Mammoliti to buy off with promises on the right and a left side melee of the undistinguished and unelectable splitting any other vote, it woulda been a walk even if they were running the video at Dundas Square and Rob was caught texting with both thumbs at 100kph thru Kensington.

Even if I give you their generous and selfless desire to do public service, no one cares as long as they keep up the lying boasts about lowering taxes and gravy-gobbling. Certainly no one's advancing that theory on the record to date. Look up the recent debate on replacing the North St Lawrence Market for Doug's high-minded idea of making a permanent contribution to his city.

And then there'd be the competence issue.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

^^^^ walls of text.

I warned you guys aboot that

 

[fuji]

No you ignoramus. Their FAMILY business. Their father was the founder and built it, but the boys have been involved since little ones. In his later years, Douglas Ford Senior was an M.P.P.

Doug Ford Senior seems to have been a pretty capable guy. Rob Ford never did a damned thing for that business and has never had a real job in his life.

Absolutely nothing wrong with choosing public service, but don't try and pass Rob off as some sort of business man when he's not.