sweden etc have been moving further to the right, back in the 90's socialism was destroying their economy and they reversed course. zimbabwe? are you really trying to say they are a free market economy lol. anyway, socialism has never worked eventually it self destructs and you are seeing that in europe right now, russia in the past, and china a few decades ago. socialism is going to bring down america as well as soon as they cant borrow any more money.
why the minimum wage is bad
- Thread starter msog87
- Start date
I also forgot to mention that rasing the minimum wage results in higher consumer prices. why don;t one of you open a cafe called the "liberal cafe" you can pay all your employees 50k a year, give them all public sector like benefits, and to pay for it all you can charge $20 for a burger and $6 for a regular coffee. You should open it right in the heart of kensington garden, or down the street from adam vaughns house, lets see how many of liberals would actually go to that restaurant
I think Schiff is making too much money for what he does.
I would propose that if we listened to a sanctimonious prick like Schiff, fine, we enact legislation that no CEO be paid a total remuneration (salary, bonuses, stock options) of no more than 10 times the of the lowest paid guy at the corporation.
See how Mr. Schiff likes that.
Wrong perspective. That is the view of an entrepreneur deciding to start a business in light of the economic conditions, including policy landscape.
From the perspective of the public, the government, if that business is going to be a net harm to society we may prefer he does not start it.
For example, a child prostitution ring may be very profitable to its investors but we as a society prefer to make it prohibitively costly, via criminal sanction, to start such a business.
Less extreme is the minimum wage. We as a society have decided we do not want businesses here that require employees who are paid less than that. We would rather have people go back to school and upgrade their skills , possibly at taxpayer expense, than have people here live that sort of life.
slaves only worked in the south and they were farming not working in factories. the industrial revolution came after slavery
No.
The industrial revolution was not after slavery. Sorry. The industrial revolution was 1760 to 1840 and slavery in the USA did not end until the 13'th amendment passed by the house in 1865.
By 1865 the United States had surpassed Britain as the world's dominant economy.
And slavery was legal in the northern states until 1804. Though it was never as institutionalized as it was in the south, it was still carried on.
In fact, the US capitol building in Washington DC was largely built by slave labour.
There were slaves in the north, including Canada, but mostly as domestic help and not the backbone of the economy as in the south.
Slaves do not make good factory workers, turns out some basic skills and care are required for factory work to use the tools and operate the machines otherwise the expensive machines get damaged by improper use. (And the operator killed but let's assume the machine is all the capitalist cares about.)
in the free market, an employer cannot pay someone below the market rate for their employment....the labour market is no different than any other market where you buy and sell.
what about those who can't afford to do internships. how will they pay rent and other living expenses?
Just when I thought the "race to the bottom" couldn't gain any more momentum, I see this thread. :hand:
The Ontario Employment Standards Act regulates employment relationships. Interns are generally considered to be employees, and must be paid at least the Ontario minimum wage (generally $10.25 per hour).
There are also rules for unpaid internships, where people aren't paid anything:The Ontario Employment Standards Act regulates employment relationships. Interns are generally considered to be employees, and must be paid at least the Ontario minimum wage (generally $10.25 per hour).
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/is_unpaidintern.php
Unpaid internships may provide useful training opportunities. Nonetheless, when we're talking about the minimum wage, it continues to be a fact that the real minimum wage in Canada is $0 per hour.
it is not that simple at all
Small companies are the lifeblood of the economy and account for a very significant portion of the employment (> 50% if I recall correctly)
Many of these companies teter on the cusp of success or failure for years until they achieve the scale where an incremental $2 / hr per employee will not put the company at risk.
They have enough problems to deal without, more socially driven regulations
The government has to very careful when placing any additional burden on these companies.
Your opinion that such a business is not worth starting is near sighted and ignorant of realities many business face
Reducing poverty is a very worthwhile social goal.
It will not be corrected by increasing the minimum wage
Rather eliminating the amount of red tape and reducing payroll taxes to encourage employment is the best policy governments should follow
Ask anyone running a small business and they will tell you the cost of dealing with government regs is a major headache and adds no value
The economy is not healthy and can ill afford another layer of economic burden placed upon it
That's funny
Its a shame you mis-represented my message by selectively quoting only part of what I said
"Race to the bottom" is a term the fool Woodpeker tosses about without ever offering a viable alternative.
You are sharper than that
That is very much up for debate.
If you raised the wage from say $10 to $12 plainly employers aren't suddenly going to start paying $12 for a $10/hr job, so it will throw into unemployment those people who are working between the old minimum wage and the new one. Those people will then be forced to go back to school and upgrade their skills--and our socialist oriented economy will generally help them to do so.
They will then eventually re-enter the workforce as $12/hr employees who have the skills necessary to be $12 employees.
To the extent that someone stuck in a $10/hr job failing to make ends meet is effectively stuck in poverty, and to the extent that the higher skilled labour eventually contributes to a higher GDP, in fact the minimum wage can in the long run eliminate poverty. It just isn't as simple as giving everyone a pay raise, it takes time.
The minimum wage is the level below which we don't want jobs in this country. You focus on the negatives of that, but it's far more complicated than that in a society which is willing to subsidize people as they upgrade their skills.
Your understanding of how and when businesses are started is pretty ignorent. No one starts a business in the belief it will be marginally profitable or that they will barely get by. Sometimes businesses are started out in an ad hoc manner, sometimes with a big plan, sometimes out of lack of good jobs etc etc. I cannot see many scenarios where a few $$ difference in the min wage will stop any body the most marginal businesses... and yes I feel those should not be started. If a business goes under because of a min wage change, then something was likely to wipe it out anyway.
Businesses are there to serve society, if they don't they will go under. Socially driven regulations are there to protect society from poorly run or predatory businesses which can cause more harm then good. If a business cannot exist within the constraints of our societal laws, it should not exist. I agree these rules can sometimes get out of hand, so they need to be reviewed and revised frequently. But on the whole, they were all created to prevent harm to people or society at large.
