I do know a retired teacher who is making more money as a contractor than he ever made as a teacher.
Teachers to Boycott After School Programs
- Thread starter GameBoy27
- Start date
I guess he is the 1 in 1,000I do know a retired teacher who is making more money as a contractor than he ever made as a teacher.
Actually, he probably spent his summers (while getting paid by the province) building up his contractor business
Good for him!
I hope he appreciates the financial assistance taxpayers provided to him.
So what would it cost for a teacher to donate after school time ?After school programs are just that, after school. If they do not want to donate their free time to this then that is that. They are not being paid to do after school programs. Those of you who feel so strongly about this can donate their time, instead of berating someone else for their choice.
Apparently they make 90K a year
Do they want another 20K to do what is expected of them ?
They knew when they signed up that teachers are needed for after school activities.
If the majority of this group thinks that way, lets put them on a hourly wage and have them punch a clock
Of coarse the clock stops in early June and does not restart until Sept
In addition, the gross will not be anywhere near 90K.
Its pretty obvious you did not think that one through very well
Kbear, I was messing with John Larue.... he claimed that 1/1000 teachers could transfer into a 90K job in the private sector and I was just suggesting some potential jobs that one could transfer into. Maybee it's 1/100 but that's still 10x better than his claim. That's all. You're right there are other costs and things to consider about those jobs. He just asked for an income of 90K so I went with Gross rather than Net and I did not factor in benefits and their worth.The somehow fully booked music teacher would have their own a studio which costs money, and they would need someone to schedule appointments, meet with customers, collect money.
For the handyman charging $60 per hour, you have forgotten about travel time, time to buy supplies, scheduling and marketing time.
The real estate agent making 90K would have about 20-30K in desk fees and advertizing costs.
SP, maybe if you are a hot young busty girl with a bubbly personality. Deduct 15-30K for the location, 12K for advertizing. You might be able to do it for a few years.
None of these people have pensions, sick days, summers off, job security, health insurance, etc.
Some people in these fields can certainly gross $200K, which would be about equivalent to a teacher’s salary when you factor in teacher benefits, and deduct the contractor’s direct costs, but it would be a very small percentage of the group. Even smaller group if they are only working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
I think everyone is in agreement that teaching is a good job. I was only disagreeing with his claim of 1/1000 teachers could gross 90K elsewhere.
Actually if you look in their contract there is nothing that says they have to do extracurricluars..... so that is donated time. The US saves money on lower salaries for teachers but they spend more on athletics in terms of coaches. Some coaches make more than the teachers. But that's a whole other issue.So what would it cost for a teacher to donate after school time ?
Apparently they make 90K a year
Do they want another 20K to do what is expected of them ?
They knew when they signed up that teachers are needed for after school activities.
If the majority of this group thinks that way, lets put them on a hourly wage and have them punch a clock
Of coarse the clock stops in early June and does not restart until Sept
In addition, the gross will not be anywhere near 90K.
Its pretty obvious you did not think that one through very well
Huh didn't even realize they weren't affiliated with the CAW. How does the pay at Honda and Toyota compare?Glad you made that distinction, while Honda and Toyota continue to hire and INCREASE sales.
FAST
Tone down the language there cowboy. You can't ask me to not swear at you and turn around and swear as well.Lets be clear
This is not a challenge nor a game
The fact of the matter is teachers can not replace their current compensation and as such should recognize a deal with the province (even with a cut to comp) is a damn site better than they will be able to obtain elsewhere.
Adding rules about the "Challenge" is of zero value
You could not be more wrong
I am getting very frustrated with teachers who imply changes to their comp will affect the quality of education and at the same time use the students as pawns via negotiating tactics (This really pisses me off and shows the true character of this group). Shame on all of them for allowing their union to do this !
It is fro the sake of students and future students that there is an urgent need for cost control and maintaining a financially stable province.
Already you are taking about a two tier system and user pay system in order to ensure teachers maintain their excessive compensation
In ten years time when Jimmy in grade 9 asks why there is no football program any more, you can tell him that it was canceled in order to pay for all the sick days teachers banked and cashed in the prior year.
Shame on you !
No, they are fighting because they are greedy and place a higher priority on their comp package than the stability of the provinces finances or the best interest of the students and especially future students.
Exactly how can you accept a paycheque from the province worth 90K / year and then say they are bullying you??
That is so fucked up
You are correct, no one will shed a single tear that teachers can not attend winter carnival
Jesus Christ !!!!!!! You can not be serious, please tell me you are joking around
Moving to a symestered system and knocking teacher vacation time down to align with the 3-5 weeks the private sector receives would address this problem
Who said chaning the comps would do that?You could not be more wrong
I am getting very frustrated with teachers who imply changes to their comp will affect the quality of education and at the same time use the students as pawns via negotiating tactics (This really pisses me off and shows the true character of this group). Shame on all of them for allowing their union to do this !
In ten years time when Jimmy in grade 9 asks why there is no football program any more, you can tell him that it was canceled in order to pay for all the sick days teachers banked and cashed in the prior year.
No, they are fighting because they are greedy and place a higher priority on their comp package than the stability of the provinces finances or the best interest of the students and especially future students.
Exactly how can you accept a paycheque from the province worth 90K / year and then say they are bullying you??
Skipping negotiations = bullying
How does not coaching pay for benefits?!!!!?
Greed.... that's you opinion not fact.
Your hate for teachers prevents you from being objective.
I'm pro teacher but I can admit that it is a good profession and that cuts are going to happen.
Even as an anti teacher person you should be able to see that they have a right to protest changes that they don't like.
Out dated
Magna, a very large part supplier, does something similar.
I have been in most of the CAW plants and both Honda and Toyota, completely different atmosphere, in the Japanese plants, EVERYBODY is after the same thing, working together to get good product out efficiently,...not so much in CAW plants.
A side note,...the CAW will still not accept profit sharing, which the UAW does,...not smart.
FAST
My understanding, always a little higher, not sure about benefits, and tend to keep workers on longer when there is a down turn, in exchange for not having a union and the accompanying low efficiency and cooperation.Huh didn't even realize they weren't affiliated with the CAW. How does the pay at Honda and Toyota compare?
Magna, a very large part supplier, does something similar.
I have been in most of the CAW plants and both Honda and Toyota, completely different atmosphere, in the Japanese plants, EVERYBODY is after the same thing, working together to get good product out efficiently,...not so much in CAW plants.
A side note,...the CAW will still not accept profit sharing, which the UAW does,...not smart.
FAST
Thanks that's interesting to know.... didn't know there is the CAW and UWA.... thought there was only one union. How long are shifts are they 8, 10, 12?My understanding, always a little higher, not sure about benefits, and tend to keep workers on longer when there is a down turn, in exchange for not having a union and the accompanying low efficiency and cooperation.
Magna, a very large part supplier, does something similar.
I have been in most of the CAW plants and both Honda and Toyota, completely different atmosphere, in the Japanese plants, EVERYBODY is after the same thing, working together to get good product out efficiently,...not so much in CAW plants.
A side note,...the CAW will still not accept profit sharing, which the UAW does,...not smart.
FAST
I think threads should have moderators that keep things on topic.....
the issue here is should teachers withhold extracurriculars as protest/leverage
personally, I say no as it doesn't really do anything positive towards getting what they want. the fact that you see stuff about rob ford and hs football tells me that at the very least football is going to happen. I imagine other sports may as well.
the issue here is should teachers withhold extracurriculars as protest/leverage
personally, I say no as it doesn't really do anything positive towards getting what they want. the fact that you see stuff about rob ford and hs football tells me that at the very least football is going to happen. I imagine other sports may as well.
Your question is unclear.Who said chaning the comps would do that?
I am unsure of what "That" is ?
90K for 9 1/2 months of work which amounts to 4.5 hours /day of actual teaching, a huge sick day retirement bonus, a very generous pension plan and you claim you are are being bullied by a cash strapped province????????Skipping negotiations = bullying
Most of us would wish our employers would abuse us in that fashion
Your expectations of entitlement are bottomless
Time to wake up and embrace some reality here Frank
Every program has a budgetHow does not coaching pay for benefits?!!!!?
The costs of equipment , transportation, maintenance of the field and / or stadium and insurance in the case of football
If you teachers continue to bleed the province dry, these programs will be cut
That should have been obvious
Subsidies for musical instruments, art supplies, gym equipment, shop supplies & equipment, computers and theater arts will all come under the microscope if the province can not get some relief from the burden of teachers compensation.
Again it will be the students that suffer in order to maintain teachers entitlement
Your greed will also probably lead to less funding for support staff, custodians and new school construction and maintenance
Call it what you want, but greed appears to accurately describe the situationGreed.... that's you opinion not fact.
How can you expect non-teachers to view this as anything other than greed @ a salary of 90K + all the gold plated benefits?
That is hilariousYour hate for teachers prevents you from being objective.
As a teacher, your greed prevents you from being objective
So why put up a fight and waste more taxpayers money by taking the province to court ?I'm pro teacher but I can admit that it is a good profession and that cuts are going to happen.
Why screw over the students by withholding extra curricular activities to protest something you admit will happen?
No as a taxpayer what I see is a group of overpaid whiners who do not appear to appreciate how good they have it and they expect me to cough up more $ to maintain their entitlement.Even as an anti teacher person you should be able to see that they have a right to protest changes that they don't like.
I also see a group that puts its interest ahead of the students and this makes me want to puke.
BTW this protest could very well backfire on Teachers if the public becomes better informed about the provinces debt problems, the size of the teachers comp package and why little jimmy does not stay after school for extra activities.
So go ahead whine a little louder
Don't waste your time with John's argument. How many people in any career could quit their job and quickly find work in another field at the same pay? I can't think of many jobs I could do besides engineering right now that would get me similar benefits and not require time off to get additional training or education and even then would likely take a few years to work my way up in experience and contacts.Hey JL,
If a teacher wants to leave teaching they could go join teh CAW....
Obviously enough teachers choose to do it for free to keep plenty of activities running but it is a choice and they are free to do or not as they see fit. It's sucks that some teachers working to rule is the only way that they have to protest, especially considering most opinions I have heard is that the courts will overturn the legislation anyways, just like the US Supreme Court did with a similar situation in Wisconsin. And to top it off, McGuinty didn't even get his majority.So what would it cost for a teacher to donate after school time ?
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Yeah he's the worst to debate with. He only chooses to acknowledge some of the points, twists them and backs it up with zero proof.Don't waste your time with John's argument. How many people in any career could quit their job and quickly find work in another field at the same pay? I can't think of many jobs I could do besides engineering right now that would get me similar benefits and not require time off to get additional training or education and even then would likely take a few years to work my way up in experience and contacts.
I tried a number of times to explain how his challenge made no sense.
Yeah I can't see the unions taking it to court if they didn't think there was a good chance of winning.Obviously enough teachers choose to do it for free to keep plenty of activities running but it is a choice and they are free to do or not as they see fit. It's sucks that some teachers working to rule is the only way that they have to protest, especially considering most opinions I have heard is that the courts will overturn the legislation anyways, just like the US Supreme Court did with a similar situation in Wisconsin. And to top it off, McGuinty didn't even get his majority.
So obviously you do not take the compensation you receive for grantedDon't waste your time with John's argument. How many people in any career could quit their job and quickly find work in another field at the same pay? I can't think of many jobs I could do besides engineering right now that would get me similar benefits and not require time off to get additional training or education and even then would likely take a few years to work my way up in experience and contacts.
Assume you are in the private sector, if your employer ran into financial difficulties, would you being willing to take a hair cut on your comp to help save the company?
I am in the private sector, my employer has run into difficulties but instead of making cuts, he allowed us the additional expenses required to diversify our business. If he had been content to do the quick fix and cut benefits the company would likely have gone under. Now we are doing well and have a highly motivated and involved staff.So obviously you do not take the compensation you receive for granted
Assume you are in the private sector, if your employer ran into financial difficulties, would you being willing to take a hair cut on your comp to help save the company?
The point is that your argument about changing jobs is moronic as very few people in the world could do it without retraining or a pay reduction.
And I havbe tried many times to explain to you that it is not a challenge.Yeah he's the worst to debate with. He only chooses to acknowledge some of the points, twists them and backs it up with zero proof.
I tried a number of times to explain how his challenge made no sense.
It is the reality of the situation
Why in the world can you not understand that ?
One more time:
Teachers can not as a group replace the comp they currently recieve
1 /1000 might be able to do so in the private sector.
Not one of them will be able to replace that salary and still work only 9 1/2 months
Therefore they should not take thier excessive comp for granted and be more accomidating to help the province get its financial house in order.
If they had alternatives, they might be in a stronger position.
Do you understand now ?
Well that is a nice story, however please explain how the province is expected to turn things a round?I am in the private sector, my employer has run into difficulties but instead of making cuts, he allowed us the additional expenses required to diversify our business. If he had been content to do the quick fix and cut benefits the company would likely have gone under. Now we are doing well and have a highly motivated and involved staff.
The point is that your argument about changing jobs is moronic as very few people in the world could do it without retraining or a pay reduction.
Re: Changing jobs
Thank you for proving my point
Like I said teachers can not replace the comp they receive now, so perhaps they should not take it for granted
