Turkey Identifies 174 Israeli Soldiers Implicated in Mavis Marmara Massacre
- Thread starter gryfin
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I'm certainly going to rely on Palmer/Uribe, a report commissioned by the UN SG at the behest of the UN SC, long before I really on *you*.Sorry, you can't rely on the Palmer/Uribe Report. You've told everyone on here many times over that a report that was not voted on by the Security Council has no value. So, back to the drawing board Ernst.
I'm certainly going to rely on Palmer/Uribe, a report commissioned by the UN SG at the behest of the UN SC, long before I really on *you*.
So, Ernst Zundel/Fuji, You are going to reply on a report that has never come before the Security Council or been voted on by the Security Council. A report, I might add, that never interviewed a single person and states that no legal conclusion should drawn from the report because they can't prove a single point in it?
That is the kind of evidence you find adequate, Ernst?
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The UN report that declared it had no legal standing and was authored by a war criminal, arms customer of Israel said it was legal.I see as usual you have nothing but hate to go on. The UN report concluded that the blockade was proper and legal. So sad for you. Your imaginary hate based version of the world is increasingly disconnected from reality.
The UN report that was written by ex-ICC judges, and gave legal opinions, said it was illegal.
I'd say you'd have to be an idiot to take the word of the Palmer report over the UN HRC report, but I don't have to because that's just stating the obvious.
No report is going to have legal standing you 'tard. It simply gives an informed opinion. There are only two ways to get a legally binding result: A resolution at the UN SC, or a ruling by the ICJ. Neither would go in Turkeys favour. The ICJ would certainly apply the same legal reasoning as in the Palmer/Uribe report, while the UN SC increasingly views Turkey as the problem here.The UN report that declared it had no legal standing and was authored by a war criminal
As for UN HRC everybody but you seems to be aware that it is a propaganda tool of the Arab league. Do you want me to review with you the names of the countries who sat on UN HRC at the time? In light of the "Arab Spring" it's quite an interesting list, if you want to talk about war criminals!
The UN HRC certainly has its issues, but it also commissioned the Goldstone report, and the flotilla report is perhaps better done, other then Israel's usual refusal to participate, it is quite thorough, includes legal opinions, legal context, evidence and a thoroughly damning conclusion. Of course, since you've never read it, your opinion on it is useless. So yes, Turkey will take the Israel to the ICJ with the UN HRC report, the Palmer report would be useless by either party in such a setting.No report is going to have legal standing you 'tard. It simply gives an informed opinion. There are only two ways to get a legally binding result: A resolution at the UN SC, or a ruling by the ICJ. Neither would go in Turkeys favour. The ICJ would certainly apply the same legal reasoning as in the Palmer/Uribe report, while the UN SC increasingly views Turkey as the problem here.
As for UN HRC everybody but you seems to be aware that it is a propaganda tool of the Arab league. Do you want me to review with you the names of the countries who sat on UN HRC at the time? In light of the "Arab Spring" it's quite an interesting list, if you want to talk about war criminals!
Turkey will not take Israel to the ICJ "with the UN HRC report" or the Palmer report or any other. The ICJ will apply international law all on its own, based on the facts. The ICJ will not look down into micro details of what specifically happend on the Mavi Marmara, rather it will issue a general ruling, binding, as to whether or not Israel has a right to blockade Gaza.
However, aside from some propagandists like you, nobody anywhere seriously disputes Israel's right to blockade Gaza. It is very clear that the ICJ will rule that the blockade is legal. The reasons why are spelled out in Palmer/Uribe, but they are also independently clear from the law.
Many people have disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of goods (i.e., the ICRC, and Goldstone), which is something quite different than mandatory weapons inspections--but nobody, other than Palestinian propagandists, and Turkish propagandists, have ever seriously disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of weapons into Gaza.
Of course you are too stupid to comprehend the difference between criticizing restrictions on goods, and the blockade itself.
However, aside from some propagandists like you, nobody anywhere seriously disputes Israel's right to blockade Gaza. It is very clear that the ICJ will rule that the blockade is legal. The reasons why are spelled out in Palmer/Uribe, but they are also independently clear from the law.
Many people have disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of goods (i.e., the ICRC, and Goldstone), which is something quite different than mandatory weapons inspections--but nobody, other than Palestinian propagandists, and Turkish propagandists, have ever seriously disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of weapons into Gaza.
Of course you are too stupid to comprehend the difference between criticizing restrictions on goods, and the blockade itself.
Ernst Zundel/Fuji.......you seem to have forgotten the ICRC, David Cameron, the EU, the Goldstone Report, Amnesty International, Oxfam, Ireland, and CARE International.However, aside from some propagandists like you, nobody anywhere seriously disputes Israel's right to blockade Gaza.
Events and scholarship have passed you by.
From the UN HRC report:Turkey will not take Israel to the ICJ "with the UN HRC report" or the Palmer report or any other. The ICJ will apply international law all on its own, based on the facts. The ICJ will not look down into micro details of what specifically happend on the Mavi Marmara, rather it will issue a general ruling, binding, as to whether or not Israel has a right to blockade Gaza.
However, aside from some propagandists like you, nobody anywhere seriously disputes Israel's right to blockade Gaza. It is very clear that the ICJ will rule that the blockade is legal. The reasons why are spelled out in Palmer/Uribe, but they are also independently clear from the law.
Many people have disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of goods (i.e., the ICRC, and Goldstone), which is something quite different than mandatory weapons inspections--but nobody, other than Palestinian propagandists, and Turkish propagandists, have ever seriously disputed Israel's right to restrict the flow of weapons into Gaza.
Of course you are too stupid to comprehend the difference between criticizing restrictions on goods, and the blockade itself.
So the boarding of the flotilla has been judged illegal, and now the blockade:Given the evidence at the Turkel Committee, it is clear that there was no reasonable suspicion that the Flotilla posed any military risk of itself. As a result, no case could be made for intercepting the vessels in the exercise of belligerent rights or Article 51 self- defence. Thus, no case can be made for the legality of the interception and the Mission therefore finds that the interception was illegal.
The Mission finds that the policy of blockade or closure regime, including the naval blockade imposed by Israel on Gaza was inflicting disproportionate civilian damage. The Mission considers that the naval blockade was implemented in support of the overall closure regime. As such it was part of a single disproportionate measure of armed conflict and as such cannot itself be found proportionate.
60. Furthermore, the closure regime is considered by the Mission to constitute collective punishment of the people living in the Gaza Strip and thus to be illegal and contrary to article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
You are wrong again, as usual.
You should just give up this argument, you really are hopeless.
Yes because Angola, Egypt, Bahrain, Bangladesh, China, Jordan, Kyrgzystan, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Russia are pillars in the cause of human rights. OH! And North Korea.From the UN HRC report
Nobody takes UN HRC seriously. It stands as an example of everything that is wrong with the one-vote-per-dictator UN General Assembly.
Oh oh oh... I forgot Libya! Except that its membership had to be suspended by the UN GA after Moamar got a little... uh.. out of hand.
The HRC just decided to investigate Syria though.
Funny thing is that their 'investigations' into Israel don't require anyone to go there and seem to happen very quickly yet their investigation of Syria is slow because of problems with access (I guess a google search has just too much evidence of atrocities for them to go through).
I won't celebrate too soon since their investigation into Sudan/Darfur only ended up with a statement thanking Sudan for their cooperation.
Funny thing is that their 'investigations' into Israel don't require anyone to go there and seem to happen very quickly yet their investigation of Syria is slow because of problems with access (I guess a google search has just too much evidence of atrocities for them to go through).
I won't celebrate too soon since their investigation into Sudan/Darfur only ended up with a statement thanking Sudan for their cooperation.
Sorry Groggy, you were right. I have had a change of heart, and realized the error of my way. I now see that the UN HRC is a credible, unbiased, and trustworthy organization populated by countries that are sincerely and truthfully dedicated to human rights. All of its reports and findings are true and unbiased. It is really an excellent source of the truth. Everything UN HRC says is to be believed implicitly and absolutely, because it is all 100% true.
In light of that I suggest we both start reading UN HRC reports, because we learn so much from them. So here's one:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf
It's a report from the UN HRC so it must be true. I think we can both learn so much by reading it! I picked it out at random--let's see, ah yes: It is the UN HRC report on Libya, from January, looking into how that country was doing under the rule of that glorious hero to the people, Moamar Gadhaffi. Let's see what gems of truth and knowledge we can learn from UN HRC about Libya!
Here are some highlights:
• Algeria noted the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya [people’s republic] to promote human rights, which reflected the country’s commitment to complying with Human Rights Council resolutions and cooperating with the international community.
• Qatar praised the legal framework for the protection of human rights and freedoms, including, inter alia, its criminal code and criminal procedure law, which provided legal guarantees for the implementation of those rights.
• The Syrian Arab Republic praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its serious commitment to and interaction with the Human Rights Council and its mechanisms.
• [North Korea] praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its achievements in the protection of human rights, especially in the field of economic and social rights, including income augmentation, social care, a free education system, increased delivery of health care services, care for people with disabilities, and efforts to empower women.
• Bahrain noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had adopted various policies aimed at improving human rights, in particular the right to education and the rights of persons with disabilities.
• Iraq commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being a party to most international and regional human rights instruments, which took precedence over its national legislation.
• Saudi Arabia commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s achievements in its constitutional, legislative and institutional frameworks, which showed the importance that the country attached to human rights.
• Tunisia noted progress made by the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, such as the adoption of the Great Green Charter, which was very comprehensive and enshrined fundamental freedoms and rights as enshrined in international human rights instruments.
• The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela acknowledged the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to promote economic, social and cultural rights, especially those of children.
• Cuba commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for the progress made in the achievement of one of the millennium development goals, namely, universal primary education.
• Egypt commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for progress in building a comprehensive national human rights framework of institutions and in drafting legislation and supporting its human resources in that area.
• The Islamic Republic of Iran noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had implemented a number of international human rights instruments and had cooperated with relevant treaty bodies.
• Myanmar commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its economic and social progress, and recognized efforts in domestic legislation aimed at guaranteeing equal rights.
• The United States of America supported the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s increased engagement with the international community. It called on the country to comply with its human rights treaty obligations.
• The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya invited all nongovernmental organizations and other relevant stakeholders in the council to visit the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya so they could see in person the status of human rights on the ground.
In light of that I suggest we both start reading UN HRC reports, because we learn so much from them. So here's one:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf
It's a report from the UN HRC so it must be true. I think we can both learn so much by reading it! I picked it out at random--let's see, ah yes: It is the UN HRC report on Libya, from January, looking into how that country was doing under the rule of that glorious hero to the people, Moamar Gadhaffi. Let's see what gems of truth and knowledge we can learn from UN HRC about Libya!
Here are some highlights:
• Algeria noted the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya [people’s republic] to promote human rights, which reflected the country’s commitment to complying with Human Rights Council resolutions and cooperating with the international community.
• Qatar praised the legal framework for the protection of human rights and freedoms, including, inter alia, its criminal code and criminal procedure law, which provided legal guarantees for the implementation of those rights.
• The Syrian Arab Republic praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its serious commitment to and interaction with the Human Rights Council and its mechanisms.
• [North Korea] praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its achievements in the protection of human rights, especially in the field of economic and social rights, including income augmentation, social care, a free education system, increased delivery of health care services, care for people with disabilities, and efforts to empower women.
• Bahrain noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had adopted various policies aimed at improving human rights, in particular the right to education and the rights of persons with disabilities.
• Iraq commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being a party to most international and regional human rights instruments, which took precedence over its national legislation.
• Saudi Arabia commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s achievements in its constitutional, legislative and institutional frameworks, which showed the importance that the country attached to human rights.
• Tunisia noted progress made by the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, such as the adoption of the Great Green Charter, which was very comprehensive and enshrined fundamental freedoms and rights as enshrined in international human rights instruments.
• The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela acknowledged the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to promote economic, social and cultural rights, especially those of children.
• Cuba commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for the progress made in the achievement of one of the millennium development goals, namely, universal primary education.
• Egypt commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for progress in building a comprehensive national human rights framework of institutions and in drafting legislation and supporting its human resources in that area.
• The Islamic Republic of Iran noted that the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had implemented a number of international human rights instruments and had cooperated with relevant treaty bodies.
• Myanmar commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its economic and social progress, and recognized efforts in domestic legislation aimed at guaranteeing equal rights.
• The United States of America supported the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s increased engagement with the international community. It called on the country to comply with its human rights treaty obligations.
• The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya invited all nongovernmental organizations and other relevant stakeholders in the council to visit the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya so they could see in person the status of human rights on the ground.
I'm heartened that you took the time to read the Libya report summary, too bad you didn't read the whole report, otherwise you would have read the lengthy list of censures at the bottom instead of quoting the little part where they got praise for some work. That was not a positive report on Libya, despite what you quoted.
Now, if you'd only take the time to read the flotilla report, I'll listen to your criticism.
Until then, you are willfully ignorant and wasting my time.
Now, if you'd only take the time to read the flotilla report, I'll listen to your criticism.
Until then, you are willfully ignorant and wasting my time.
You mean the comments from the US, Canada, S Korea, Israel, France, Mexico, Australia, Slovakia, Poland, and Brazil? Yes those countries were all critical of Libya, but the UN HRC did not take up those issues. The Arab dominated UN HRC stuck to praising Libya.the lengthy list of censures at the bottom
I'm not changing the subject here.You mean the comments from the US, Canada, S Korea, Israel, France, Mexico, Australia, Slovakia, Poland, and Brazil? Yes those countries were all critical of Libya, but the UN HRC did not take up those issues. The Arab dominated UN HRC stuck to praising Libya.
There are issues with the UN HRC, but there are no credible issues with the flotilla report.
And since you've never read it, your opinion on the matter is useless.
Meanwhile, today you said:
Your principles are seriously messed up.There are many in the "security" agencies of the United States who feel that the ends justify the means. I, on the other hand, believe that our way of life, our beliefs, and our principles ARE the means, and it's the means themselves that are worth fighting for.
Human rights for all except Palestinians and those trying to help them.
Those you claim are free to be assassinated at will just by your liberal and incorrect use of the word 'terrorist'.
If I call you a terrorist, am I therefore justified in calling the US for a drone strike on your condo?
Understatement of the century. To be specific, the "issues" are that the UN HRC is dominated by Israel's enemies, a group of bloodthirsty dictators who have trampled their own people's human rights, many of whom demonize Israel, and are dedicated to the destruction of that country. These are the countries behind these "reports" and as a result those reports have NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER.There are issues with the UN HRC
They are always designed, superficially, to look like credible documents. They never are.
Except the fact that the writers didn't actually go to Israel to investigate....
There are issues with the UN HRC, but there are no credible issues with the flotilla report.
...
Except the fact that the conclusion was predetermined.
Except the fact that they ignored video evidence.
If I had the time, I'd go on.
Have you read the report?Except the fact that the writers didn't actually go to Israel to investigate.
Except the fact that the conclusion was predetermined.
Except the fact that they ignored video evidence.
If I had the time, I'd go on.
Can you quote any proof for any of those accusations?
If not, shut up.
Seems to me that most of the world is becoming Israel's enemies these days.Understatement of the century. To be specific, the "issues" are that the UN HRC is dominated by Israel's enemies.
What is it, 130 nations they expect to vote for Palestine if it goes to the general assembly?
You do realize that the worlds largest refugee problem is from Israel?
I'm talking about nations that have actually fought hot wars with Israel in the last 40 years. They dominate the UN HRC.Seems to me that most of the world is becoming Israel's enemies these days.
If you can't see why that is a problem then you are really, really, really stupid.
