1967 Borders and The Palestinian scam

[roadshuttle]

This thread is old hat now. But just thought I would defend myself againts groggy who called me a genocidal racist.

Groggy, as I said or uttered before, I cannot exterminate the Palestinian race, they dont exist. So I hope you cease and disist with your ad hominem slurs.

If you go a step further and say I want to exterminate Arabs, which is essentially what the Palestinians really are, then you must also be retarded. Of course I dont want to exterminate the Arabs, that would be a horrific genocidal crime.

But, I think its okay to exterminate Nazi's and terrorists though.

Most of the squatters living in the Gaza strip are Terrorist and Nazi's, or strong supporters of these sects. And I think its okay to exterminate them one by one as they attack Israel.

Its happening now, as we speak. Unfortuanaltely there are innocent children in Gaza who are being killed, because their terrorist parents thow them in the line of fire on purpose.
I think its sad, because they are children, and its not their fault that their own parents are purposly jepordizing their lives for a small piece of land that doesnt belong to them.

 

[groggy]

The ones who are Israelis have the exact same rights as Jews. The ones who don't want to be Israeli don't want to be Israeli and therefore don't get treated as Israelis.

Land rights, police protection, social services all vary widely based on race.

A simple look at facts would show that Israeli attacks on Palestinian tend to be in response to Palestinian attacks. For example, the Israeli invasion of Gaza a couple years ago was in response to Palestinian forces launching thousands of rockets and mortars.

Take a look at the recent 40 or 50 killed and hundreds injured in the Nabka protests. Non-violent Palestinian protesters were shot by the Israeli army, an army that clearly could have used rubber bullets and tear gas. The UN just called Israel out on those.

Israel doesn't tend to use terror tactics but attacks but does its best to target valid military targets. Some civilians get killed but that doesn't make it a terror attack. Also worth noting is that Israel acts against their soldiers who commit crimes while Hamas, Jihad, and even Fatah celebrate the murderers of Israeli civilians of any age.

You argue that Israel doesn't target civilians so killings by them are not war crimes. But Israel kills way more civilians then Palestinians, so either they are targeting civilians and using terrorist tactics or they are incompetent. Do you argue they are incompetent?

 

[groggy]

Most of the squatters living in the Gaza strip are Terrorist and Nazi's, or strong supporters of these sects. And I think its okay to exterminate them one by one as they attack Israel.

Still calling for genocide.
You use the same language as was used in Rwanda recently. Calling others 'cockroaches' and 'rats'.
Unbelievable.

 

[fuji]

Land rights, police protection, social services all vary widely based on race.

That's true only in a few hotly contested areas like East Jerusalem, where all of those things have become highly politicized. In the rest of Israel your statement is false, there is general equality elsewhere.

Take a look at the recent 40 or 50 killed and hundreds injured in the Nabka protests. Non-violent Palestinian protesters were shot by the Israeli army, an army that clearly could have used rubber bullets and tear gas.

Which country bordering Israel is it that does NOT shoot people attempting to cross the border? I seem to recall some swift work by some Lebanese snipers.

Let's call a spade a spade here: The Syrian government, using Palestinians as pawns, violated the agreed on line of control and committed or encouraged an act of war against Israel. You can call it non-violent, but the failure to respect the line of control is a violation of the truce that exists between those countries--an act of war.

Syria had agreed to respect that line and failed in its duty to prevent those Palestinians from crossing--in fact, appears to have bussed them in and set the whole thing up.

You argue that Israel doesn't target civilians so killings by them are not war crimes. But Israel kills way more civilians then Palestinians, so either they are targeting civilians and using terrorist tactics or they are incompetent.

It's a documented fact (e.g., see Richard Goldstone) that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, and that this is the #1 reason why they get killed when Israel responds to attacks. Hamas intentionally put as many Palestinians as possible in harms way in the hopes of creating large casualty counts that will get suckers like you to believe bullshit like what you just wrote.

 

[groggy]

It's a documented fact (e.g., see Richard Goldstone) that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, and that this is the #1 reason why they get killed when Israel responds to attacks. Hamas intentionally put as many Palestinians as possible in harms way in the hopes of creating large casualty counts that will get suckers like you to believe bullshit like what you just wrote.

You should try a bit of research before you speak.
Goldstone accused Israel of using Palestinian children as human shields, not the other way around.
I seem to recall this was backed by that Israeli protest group that's all ex-army, breaking the silence.

As for the Palestinian refugees protesting for the right of return, sounds like they've learned a few good lessons.
There last protest put Israel on the same footing as Syria, and they apparently outfoxed the IDF and sent out fake info on facebook, according to Al Jazeera.
You should read this article, very interesting.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201168131013184315.html
I was chatting a bit with the Syrian's I'm working with right now (one of whom is an activist who can't go back while her husband is still in Syria and can't leave). Any claim
of Syrian's orchestrating this is pretty laughable. Their government is too busy panicking, trying to maintain power and shooting their own people to waste time on this.

 

[fuji]

Goldstone accused Israel of using Palestinian children as human shields, not the other way around.

You're living in absolute and utter denial if you think Hamas does not intentionally put its military assets in densely populated civilian areas with the express purpose of maximizing Palestinian casualties when Israel lawfully and rightly responds to their attacks.

Here is a quote from Hamas: the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death seeking. For the Palestinian people, death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the mujahideen excel and the children excel. Accordingly, [Hamas] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the mujahideen, against the Zionist bombing machine (reference 338 in Goldstone).

Hamas is actually PROUD of using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

There last protest put Israel on the same footing as Syria

Maybe in your mind a government shooting at its own peacefully protesting civilians is the same thing as shooting people who are infiltrating illegally across an internationally recognized line of control. In your mind, and in very few other minds.

Any claim
of Syrian's orchestrating this is pretty laughable. Their government is too busy panicking, trying to maintain power and shooting their own people to waste time on this.

Yet again you show your idiocy--Arab regimes ALWAYS try and create conflict with Israel as a means of deflecting attention from their own barbarism. It's their usual ploy.

 

[groggy]

I don't know about Hamas' use of human shields, from what I've read and from the Goldstone report they don't use them and don't put civilians in harm's way. Goldstone says there is nowhere else for them to go. I have no idea where you are getting your info from.


It looks to me that you are just as bad as Roadshuttle, just a bit more discreet in your racist views. The humans that Israel shot were all civilians. That's a crime, as identified by the UN. Why is it ok for Israel to shoot civilians and not Syria?

 

[toguy5252]

I don't know about Hamas' use of human shields, from what I've read and from the Goldstone report they don't use them and don't put civilians in harm's way. Goldstone says there is nowhere else for them to go. I have no idea where you are getting your info from.


It looks to me that you are just as bad as Roadshuttle, just a bit more discreet in your racist views. The humans that Israel shot were all civilians. That's a crime, as identified by the UN. Why is it ok for Israel to shoot civilians and not Syria?

What do you call it when Hamas hides rocket and missile launchers in houses, apartment buildings and i think there have been cases of schools and hospitals.

Please tell me what you think Israel or any other country should do when these missiles and rockets keep coming into civilian population centers from Gaza. I am just curious.

 

[fuji]

I don't know about Hamas' use of human shields, from what I've read and from the Goldstone report they don't use them and don't put civilians in harm's way. Goldstone says there is nowhere else for them to go. I have no idea where you are getting your info

That quote I provided you was a hamas governing official speaking on the record boasting about using human shields, quoted in goldstone.

there is nothing to debate here, hamas is actually PROUD of using human shields. They brag about it.

 

[fuji]

By the way killing civilians is NOT a crime if they are killed incidentally to an attack on a legitimate military target. what is a crime is intentionally targeting the civilians themselves. Goldstone had now explicitly said that he does not believe israel intentionally targets civilians.

Hamas of course brags about intentionally killing civilians, it's not debatable that hamas engages in war crime and atrocity as a matter of policy.

 

[basketcase]

Land rights, police protection, social services all vary widely based on race.



Take a look at the recent 40 or 50 killed and hundreds injured in the Nabka protests. Non-violent Palestinian protesters were shot by the Israeli army, an army that clearly could have used rubber bullets and tear gas. The UN just called Israel out on those.

Oh you mean when hundreds of people tried illegally to cross a border? I also seem to recall Egyptian police routinely killing people trying to illegally cross their border in attempts to get out.

You argue that Israel doesn't target civilians so killings by them are not war crimes. But Israel kills way more civilians then Palestinians, so either they are targeting civilians and using terrorist tactics or they are incompetent. Do you argue they are incompetent?

No, they simply are targeting the military targets that Hamas and Hezbollah hide among and launch attacks from right in the middle of their population centers.

Beyond that, I would far rather have incompetent soldiers protecting their people than terrorists who intentionally target civilians.

 

[basketcase]

... Any claim
of Syrian's orchestrating this is pretty laughable. Their government is too busy panicking, trying to maintain power and shooting their own people to waste time on this.

You mean besides buses being provided and the Syrian troops standing aside and letting the protesters pass straight through a restricted military area that is normally tightly controlled by Syria.
We could also ask about the clear benefit that the murderous Syrian regime has in once again using Israel as a scapegoat.

 

[basketcase]

I don't know about Hamas' use of human shields, from what I've read and from the Goldstone report they don't use them and don't put civilians in harm's way. Goldstone says there is nowhere else for them to go. I have no idea where you are getting your info from.
...

Nice argument. First you say they don't do it and then you say that they have to do it because they have nowhere else to put them. Quality debating skills if you ask me. I am also pretty sure that goldstone said nothing about Hamas being justified in their placement of military among civilians.


p.s. you might also look at google maps and see how much open space there actually is in Gaza.

 

[groggy]

Nice argument. First you say they don't do it and then you say that they have to do it because they have nowhere else to put them. Quality debating skills if you ask me. I am also pretty sure that goldstone said nothing about Hamas being justified in their placement of military among civilians.


p.s. you might also look at google maps and see how much open space there actually is in Gaza.

Gaza is supposed to be one of the mostly densely populated areas on the planet.
However, I was just responding to Fuji's blatantly wrong allegation about Goldstone reporting on Palestinian's use of human shields, when in fact he reported on Israel's use.

But further to this argument, all I've heard from this crowd is that everyone here is ok with Israel shooting civilians. Even if they are across a fence in another country and even if Israel has other non-lethal options like tear gas and rubber bullets.

Are all of you as bad as Roadshuttle? Do people only count if they are God's chosen?

 

[Aardvark154]

Do people only count if they are God's chosen?

If you are going to throw the term about with such abandon, you really should get hold of a good encyclopedia of religion as well as a Britannica and look up what Jews mean by the term and what Christians mean by the term. You may well be surprised to know that a fair number of Christian Denominations still see that God has a particular relationship with the Jewish People. As well as that neither view it the way that you imply.

 

[fuji]

Goldstone did report on the use of human shields by hamas. The quote i provided you of the hamas guy boasting about using human shields is from goldstone. Of course he has since retracted his criticism of israel.

 

[basketcase]

...

Are all of you as bad as Roadshuttle? Do people only count if they are God's chosen?

Not being one of the chosen it is hard to say but judging by your silence on Syria, you must think civilian deaths are only bad at the hands of Israel.

 

[groggy]

Well now, I seem to have pissed off three of you.

Aardvark: Call yourself what you like, a friend I was talking with tonight was calling all heavily religious types 'funny hats'. Maybe that's better, all funny hats seem to think they are better because God/Buddha/Yahweh/the big invisible thing in the sky/whatever says they are better. That seems to lead to Roadshuttles call for extermination and Fuji's call for killing civilians. Come to think of it, I'll retract the Buddha reference, I've never heard a Buddhist call for violence.

Fuji: Goldstone accused Israel of using human shields and never retracted it. If he accused Hamas as well, will you say both cases are wrong? Or will you find some excuse for your 'chosen people' to use human shields? Why don't Palestinians have a right to defend themselves as well as Israeli's?

Basketcase: I've said before, a pox on both Syria and Israel for killing civilians. Spent some time talking with an Afghani fashion designer tonight, lovely lady. I'd back her protesting Afghani government or NATO/US bombings as I would my recent Syrian friends. People are people, religious types tend to assholes and people with power abuse it. Killing Syrians is just as bad as killing Palestinians or Jews. Don't you agree?

 

[luv2eatpussy]

I say if the little bitches cant play together then drop a nuke in that sand box.
Then no one can live there for the next 1100 years.

That will teach them to share. Jews are the biggest babies in the world today. Still cry about the holocaust, but pull the same shit on the Palestinians

 

[rld]

I say if the little bitches cant play together then drop a nuke in that sand box.
Then no one can live there for the next 1100 years.

That will teach them to share. Jews are the biggest babies in the world today. Still cry about the holocaust, but pull the same shit on the Palestinians

Yeah I bet if a number of groups had tried to wipe your people from the face of the earth on various occasions you would just brush it off.

Babies are those who cry and do nothing. The Jews have built a nation in the midst of enemies and defended it very well. You may not like their policies...but your whining sounds more like a baby to me than the Jews who give their blood and money for their dreamed of homeland.