Excellent post.Fark, I go away for the day and the loonies are let loose.
I can only really speak for Peel Regional, Metro and the OPP, forces I have connections with close to TO, but the officers don't get paid to go, they go on their own time, going before or after their regular shifts covered by other officer for any overlap. Any officers that want to go, but are on schedule are easily able to get others to cover their shifts. Those that take this extra work on quite often take the money they earn and donate it to the family of the fallen officer. so far no extra cost. As for the out of town officer i can't speak of covering travel and hotels, although most hotels give substantial saving to police officers. I saw cruisers from a number of other towns, so they didn't fly.
I'm sure if there was a rush of criminal activity during this ceremony nuttyboi would have peeled himself away from his scanners and reported it to us.
The cost of this kind of mass funeral procession is not as much as you would think beyond the regular cost of a good size funeral. Funeral home services, flowers, casket, hearses, and limos, all in normal range. They didn't have pay for an organist or for clergy, so a savings.
Half the down town core was not closed down as one poster claimed, just 4 km stretch of a road and a large traffic jam the bottom of University Ave and Front St for about an hour. Not much difference than a Santa Claus parade, Saturday night at the ACC or a Sunday afternoon CFL game at the Rogers center. I doubt many businesses on that route are going to complain to City Hall about a loss of business.
The only major cost MIGHT be the rental for the use of the Halls D,E,F, and G at the MTCC. I have no idea what they would go for, but being that it's a Municipal building you can't count out a staff rate. I am quite familiar with the top 6 companies that would approached to do the job of making the service run smoothly at the MTCC, with regards to A/V, lighting, and sound, including the in-house production company Showtech. The companies would probably pay their staff for the work done, and 'might' choose not charge the client/family for anything or would not charge for rental of the hardware; ultimately discounting the contract by 65-100%. There are few places in Toronto that can hold 10,000 people.
The fact that a few thousands co workers, friends and family want to attend, pay their respects, and show support to the family is whose fault. Who's going to stand up and say we're sorry, you can't come.
Supporting the family is the number one purpose of this kind of celebration.
Is the police funeral over the top?
- Thread starter Damondean
- Start date
The people who are responsible for the programing felt differently. On the CBC channel the programmers felt it was more important to show this celebration than repeating the same minor new headlines and weather 4 times and hour or kids shows they've already seen 6 times. The CTV felt it was important enough to bring this show of support to those who couldn't be there, but may have wanted to.Certainly, the amount of media attention that has been paid to this story -- sad as it is -- has felt excessive.
If you want o know what else is going on in the world, watch the BBC.
Do you really believe that the cops who showed up today did it for politics? I thought they were stupid neanderthals?
Ever heard of Occams Razor? The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.
How about Reductio ad Absurdum Reductio ad absurdum is a mode of argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable.
men in uniforms...peacock strutting at it's finest...be they soldiers, priests, police or boy scout leaders. i would concur, the average cop who showed up today probably doesn't see it, and doesn't get it. When your part of a hierarchical system not only do you do as your told, you believe what your told
Most of the police organisations are now called Police 'Services', not police force. You're about 10 years behind the time. In a similar, fashion your other observation are out of date. At least you're consistent.Cops savour the opportunity to display their strength in numbers....after all, it IS called a police FORCE... In that regard, not that dissimilar from gangs of Harley bikers out on a motorcade weekend jaunt from Montreal to Toronto...a display of colours. Todays venue was, as is always the case with high profile funerals, political opportunism. After all, there have been a LOT of bad cop stories in the news in the past year. Just look at the RCMP as example. Garnering sympathies for a fellow member is a psychological technique, be it a relatively shallow one, designed to win back some credibility with the general public...and hey..perhaps citizens will for the moment forget about the G20 nasties, or the poor schlep who got kicked in the face after he fell to his knees in BC
Many of those strutting peacocks were in tears today.men in uniforms...peacock strutting at it's finest...be they soldiers, priests, police or boy scout leaders
There are two mutual masterbaters in this thread I guarantee that not one who attended the funeral would morn the loss of them.
Wrong again. At least your constant. There are more than two in this thread that support the police and many that went to this ceremony would miss it.There are two mutual masterbaters in this thread I guarantee that not one who attended the funeral would morn the loss of them.
I see...so the average citizen who has been beaten up at G20; the BC gentleman who was kicked in the head while already down, or our deceased Poilish immigrant tasered at the Vancouver airport was receiving a "Service" rather than benefitting from the officers generous use of "force" Sorrily you have been dumbed-down by the language police.Most of the police organisations are now called Police 'Services', not police force. You're about 10 years behind the time. In a similar, fashion your other observation are out of date. At least you're consistent.
That's a different point than you were trying to make. You claimed that they were called 'forces' which I then pointed out was wrong and outdated. Now if you want to talk about those incidents, then go for it.I see...so the average citizen who has been beaten up at G20; the BC gentleman who was kicked in the head while already down, or our deceased Poilish immigrant tasered at the Vancouver airport was receiving a "Service" rather than benefitting from the officers generous use of "force" Sorrily you have been dumbed-down by the language police.
Yes, those RCMP Constables and NCO's who do so much in the North, a great many of whom are people from first nations, I'm sure they are all traitors and turncoats.I'm not a cop because, as an Aboriginal person, I don't want to be part of a "little boys club" that has a well known history for opressing my people. For me, to be a willing part of that opression would be like being a traitor, a turncoat to my people. Nothing would ever make me stoop that low.
I realize you have issues, and perhaps have good reasons for having them, but get real!
Don't understand
What happened to this guy and family is shit, and nothing I or anybody else says at this point will make it any better.
BUT, what I don't understand is, why are people who belong to unions, especially civil servant unions, feel they are any different than the private contractor or sales person who is killed by a run away truck wheel on his way to a site or meeting.
Considering they never signed up for a job with the likely hood they could get killed doing it.
A person gets killed while doing their job happens all the time, and is no less a person than the one who belongs to a union, it just ends there.
FAST
What happened to this guy and family is shit, and nothing I or anybody else says at this point will make it any better.
BUT, what I don't understand is, why are people who belong to unions, especially civil servant unions, feel they are any different than the private contractor or sales person who is killed by a run away truck wheel on his way to a site or meeting.
Considering they never signed up for a job with the likely hood they could get killed doing it.
A person gets killed while doing their job happens all the time, and is no less a person than the one who belongs to a union, it just ends there.
FAST
I don't think those that were beaten up at the G20 were your so called 'average citizen' (not implying that they deserve being beaten up, but they're not your average law-abiding citizen).I see...so the average citizen who has been beaten up at G20; the BC gentleman who was kicked in the head while already down, or our deceased Poilish immigrant tasered at the Vancouver airport was receiving a "Service" rather than benefitting from the officers generous use of "force" Sorrily you have been dumbed-down by the language police.
Go for it!The information is all public. If you want to keep your head up your ass, go for it.
I would go into detail, but to be honest, I wish I never said anything at all, there is no point.
Draw us up a chart showing the wages for the Toronto Police Service including how much is generally spent on housing etc. . . . and one for a NCM of the Canadian Forces including how much quarters add in non-monetary compensation, and then add for us the various allowances.
Further post for us the typical educational levels for both as well.
As I already posted you are going to find that the gap you say is there is not.
I suppose I should add that I don't believe those in the forces are paid what they truly deserve to be. Then again I haven't seen any money trees of late.
The Fruity Hare and blackrock13 - your long posts were excellent. Hard to add to them.
Cops put their lives on the line for us all, constantly. Up until the day they retire, they could die in an instant. Protecting us. That's the difference. Protecting us, whether we appreciate it or not (even when we don't appreciate it, in fact).
The funeral was as much for other cops as for the poor fallen officer. What is their motivation to put their lives on the line for us? Its not the money - not paid enough for what they do. And its not ego - good fucking grief!! Its a sense of duty that most of us don't have, and a commitment to public service that most of us don't have, that keeps them from quitting and living an easier life. They need to see that they are supported, that what they do matters, that someone cares, that their families will be cared for if they themselves die in the line of duty. A giant funeral is immensely important to fostering the spirit of brotherhood that keeps these guys motivated.
Look, if you have never served in the military or been a cop or a firefighter or even an EMS guy, you most likely don't understand the importance of brotherhood and the concept of being part of a community team that deals with life and death every day. Its kind of like the support that a hockey team or football team gives itself while on the field, but bigger - because it deals with life and death. That's fine, you don't get it and you won't get it. Most of our jobs are about ourselves, not about a community. What you are seeing at this giant funeral, as well as at the military repatriation ceremonies, is a community reinforcing its values. Its vitally important to them, even if its not important to you.
Again, life and death here, on our behalf.
Anyhow, if a giant funeral when someone dies keeping me safe, is part of what is needed to thank and acknowledge and motivate the people who put their asses on the line when the rest of us curl up in a ball and call for their help, then I'm happy to support it and even pay for it. I can hate cops as much as the next guy - they fuck up and they can get egotistical and sometimes they don't realize the difference between law enforcement and policing. But, they'll come running when we call 911, not knowing what they're getting into on arrival. This guy got freaking killed trying to save lives. He deserves a giant fucking funeral for that.
Cops put their lives on the line for us all, constantly. Up until the day they retire, they could die in an instant. Protecting us. That's the difference. Protecting us, whether we appreciate it or not (even when we don't appreciate it, in fact).
The funeral was as much for other cops as for the poor fallen officer. What is their motivation to put their lives on the line for us? Its not the money - not paid enough for what they do. And its not ego - good fucking grief!! Its a sense of duty that most of us don't have, and a commitment to public service that most of us don't have, that keeps them from quitting and living an easier life. They need to see that they are supported, that what they do matters, that someone cares, that their families will be cared for if they themselves die in the line of duty. A giant funeral is immensely important to fostering the spirit of brotherhood that keeps these guys motivated.
Look, if you have never served in the military or been a cop or a firefighter or even an EMS guy, you most likely don't understand the importance of brotherhood and the concept of being part of a community team that deals with life and death every day. Its kind of like the support that a hockey team or football team gives itself while on the field, but bigger - because it deals with life and death. That's fine, you don't get it and you won't get it. Most of our jobs are about ourselves, not about a community. What you are seeing at this giant funeral, as well as at the military repatriation ceremonies, is a community reinforcing its values. Its vitally important to them, even if its not important to you.
Again, life and death here, on our behalf.
Anyhow, if a giant funeral when someone dies keeping me safe, is part of what is needed to thank and acknowledge and motivate the people who put their asses on the line when the rest of us curl up in a ball and call for their help, then I'm happy to support it and even pay for it. I can hate cops as much as the next guy - they fuck up and they can get egotistical and sometimes they don't realize the difference between law enforcement and policing. But, they'll come running when we call 911, not knowing what they're getting into on arrival. This guy got freaking killed trying to save lives. He deserves a giant fucking funeral for that.
There's probably a happy meeting in the middle somewhere. Soldiers more. Police less. At any rate I can't accept that soldiers sacrifice any less for their country than police do!Ambivilant and evasive as usual.
Are you suggesting that the military funerals should get more attention or the police less?
Very well put! Thank you!The funeral was as much for other cops as for the poor fallen officer. What is their motivation to put their lives on the line for us? Its not the money - not paid enough for what they do. And its not ego - good fucking grief!! Its a sense of duty that most of us don't have, and a commitment to public service that most of us don't have, that keeps them from quitting and living an easier life. They need to see that they are supported, that what they do matters, that someone cares, that their families will be cared for if they themselves die in the line of duty. A giant funeral is immensely important to fostering the spirit of brotherhood that keeps these guys motivated.
Look, if you have never served in the military or been a cop or a firefighter or even an EMS guy, you most likely don't understand the importance of brotherhood and the concept of being part of a community team that deals with life and death every day. Its kind of like the support that a hockey team or football team gives itself while on the field, but bigger - because it deals with life and death. That's fine, you don't get it and you won't get it. Most of our jobs are about ourselves, not about a community. What you are seeing at this giant funeral, as well as at the military repatriation ceremonies, is a community reinforcing its values. Its vitally important to them, even if its not important to you.
Again, life and death here, on our behalf.
Anyhow, if a giant funeral when someone dies keeping me safe, is part of what is needed to thank and acknowledge and motivate the people who put their asses on the line when the rest of us curl up in a ball and call for their help, then I'm happy to support it and even pay for it. I can hate cops as much as the next guy - they fuck up and they can get egotistical and sometimes they don't realize the difference between law enforcement and policing. But, they'll come running when we call 911, not knowing what they're getting into on arrival. This guy got freaking killed trying to save lives. He deserves a giant fucking funeral for that.
If it was like most police funerals, a fair number of those from within three or four hours driving distance worked either last night or are working this afternoon or tonight and came to participate today giving up their time off to pay their respects.The only possible, serious complaint with the funeral would be if it was on the tax-payers dime. That doesn't appear to be the case.
I had to read this thread couple of times before i understood what you were trying to say. i'm not I have it yet, but I'll try.What happened to this guy and family is shit, and nothing I or anybody else says at this point will make it any better.
BUT, what I don't understand is, why are people who belong to unions, especially civil servant unions, feel they are any different than the private contractor or sales person who is killed by a run away truck wheel on his way to a site or meeting.
Considering they never signed up for a job with the likely hood they could get killed doing it.
A person gets killed while doing their job happens all the time, and is no less a person than the one who belongs to a union, it just ends there.
FAST
There is a bond that most people have regarding someone who works to protect them from the bad guys, the shit that happens in daily life and sometimes themselves, and when one of those are killed in that duty, that the officer took and and made a promise to honour, then the general public feel the loss.
Contractors/construction workers just don't have that kind of bond, yet if there was to occur a major or very public construction accident that killed a few of them and the various labour federations wanted to show their support in a similar fashion I doubt anyone would mind one bit. The fact that it doesn't happen is more a statement of the labour movement and not the general public. How many attended the funeral s of the guys that fell fro the scaffolds last year. Maybe a public celebration by fellow workers would have said something and put the heartless jughead bosses in the spotlight.
Those that claim that the figure don't support that a police job is as dangerous as a number of others because of the lower body count, don't want to think that the low number of police death is also a function of the high level of training that the officer get combined with the support and organization behind them to handle the dangers.
