Microsoft's Chinese workforce, too tired to stay awake

[djk]

Sometimes, a photo does say a thousand words.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266643/Microsofts-Chinese-workforce-tired-stay-awake.html

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

Sadly, this type of factory environment is not unusual in China and other developing countries.

We all like the inexpensive items we buy daily but the workers in the factories pay much of the cost with the quality of their lives.

 

[Cycleguy007]

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

Whereas I am not so naive to assume that this sorta thing does not happen from time to time in some of the less scrupulous members of the supply chain, but not for a company as high profile as Microsoft. There is likely some sort of other explanation for that photo...

Social compliance in Chinese factories, although not up to North American standards, (it is a completely different standard of living... and therefore not comparable), it has grown on an exponential level in recent years. I work for an agency that produces product for the North American market and all of our factories have to go through routine random 3rd party audits to make sure its social standards are up to par. They are EXTREMELY STRICT, and factories must keep accurate documentation showing overtime hours, employee ages etc for every employee (sometimes well into the 10's of thousands) and everything is painstaking checked for infractions and forgeries. EVERYTHING is checked and rechecked... on an on going basis sometimes 3-4 times a year. Safety standards, employee conditions etc are all included... and if any infractions are discovered, you risk being "red listed" which is the kiss of death for any factory.

 

[Cassini]

You can find workers asleep from exhaustion at North American factories too ...

Sometimes it is in manufacturing, often in security, and health care has issues as well.

 

[Cycleguy007]

You can find workers asleep from exhaustion at North American factories too ...

Sometimes it is in manufacturing, often in security, and health care has issues as well.

Or the TTC!

 

[blackrock13]

Now a skeptical eye could look at this picture and say, "nap time" ,15 minute power nap and back to work. Not me, but somebody could say that. The fact that MS has not said, 'hogwash' tells me there's something to it. How's Nike, Primark, or Roots doing these days?

 

[blackrock13]

you want them to say hogwash without investigating it first? that would go over well.

No, that would be the pro forma answer. Time will tell.

 

[Don]

Now a skeptical eye could look at this picture and say, "nap time" ,15 minute power nap and back to work. Not me, but somebody could say that. The fact that MS has not said, 'hogwash' tells me there's something to it. How's Nike, Primark, or Roots doing these days?

Well it is true. How do I know? Cause right here in Markham, I knew someone who worked at ATI years ago and they told me that the people on the line do exactly that - when it is break time, they pull out a little pillow and that a little nap.

 

[blackrock13]

Well it is true. How do I know? Cause right here in Markham, I knew someone who worked at ATI years ago and they told me that the people on the line do exactly that - when it is break time, they pull out a little pillow and that a little nap.

I know it's true because I've done exactly that, although not on a production line, but close the office door, or the equivalent and take 15 minutes with my head in my arms. Now this photos shows nothing more and is good press for those who have an axe to grind. The days are long and the work condition difficult by western standards, except maybe in the southern states, more on that if you want, but that's what it's like for a large group of factory workers in the world. I couldn't do it.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

Whereas I am not so naive to assume that this sorta thing does not happen from time to time in some of the less scrupulous members of the supply chain, but not for a company as high profile as Microsoft. There is likely some sort of other explanation for that photo..

I think the article explains it well enough.

Technically, this is not the work of Microsoft. They have outsourced the manufacture of these products. They are built to Microsoft's design specifications but the factory does not belong to them and the workers work for the factory, not Microsoft. Technically, Microsoft is not responsible for any rights violations except that they are benefiting from the low cost of exploited workers to get their product cheaply. It could be argued that it is morally wrong for MS to take advantage of unfair practices in other jurisdictions. Some might compare this to the US sending prisoners to third party governments where they happen to allow torture.

On the other hand, it is not only Microsoft that benefits from this arrangement. All of us downstream who buy Microsoft products are also getting lower prices on the backs of the exploited workers. Except, of course, those of us who pirate software and purchase knock-offs...we're putting pressure on Microsoft to lower their costs so we contribute in a different way.

 

[Cycleguy007]

I think the article explains it well enough.

Technically, this is not the work of Microsoft. They have outsourced the manufacture of these products. They are built to Microsoft's design specifications but the factory does not belong to them and the workers work for the factory, not Microsoft. Technically, Microsoft is not responsible for any rights violations except that they are benefiting from the low cost of exploited workers to get their product cheaply. It could be argued that it is morally wrong for MS to take advantage of unfair practices in other jurisdictions. Some might compare this to the US sending prisoners to third party governments where they happen to allow torture.

On the other hand, it is not only Microsoft that benefits from this arrangement. All of us downstream who buy Microsoft products are also getting lower prices on the backs of the exploited workers. Except, of course, those of us who pirate software and purchase knock-offs...we're putting pressure on Microsoft to lower their costs so we contribute in a different way.

The article is Bullshit...

As for the rest of your post... It's Microsoft's name on the product and they are the ones that will be seen as the perpetrators... end of story. I don't know how THEIR business is run, but I do know how MINE is... and I'm told that it pretty much works that way for everyone these days.

In my case I represent a number of factories overseas that produce product for a number of different retailers, as well as a number of regional retailers and even some brands. Each of those retailers and brands have their own set of social compliance guidelines that our factories are required to adhere to... if they do not, depending on the severity of the infraction (ranging anywhere from a burnt out exit light to discovering a worker has lied about their age in order to get hired, or worse) they get placed on probation of sorts and have a certain amount of time to rectify any infractions. If a factory gets too many negative audits they get de-listed and no more orders will be placed to them. Also certain infractions may result in immediate termination... such as underage workers, excessive work hours, hazardous working conditions etc....

As I said before, there is likely a perfectly innocent explanation for the picture in the article, such as some have suggested in this thread. The article is media hype... they are just trying to sell advertising space... Microsoft being one of the most successful companies on the planet have a huge target on their back and are party to these sorts of attacks all the time. Walmart too... they have an entire team of legal representatives (rumored to be in the hundreds) to combat these bogus attacks on a daily and ongoing basis.

You are right about one thing though... everyone wants a better deal. Oh, and lets not forget about the stock holders... they want a higher return on investment too.

 

[Brandon123]

Microsoft doesn't give a shit, they only care about making more profits. Microsoft know what's going on, they are just acting dumb.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Microsoft doesn't give a shit, they only care about making more profits. Microsoft know what's going on, they are just acting dumb.

Hi Bill! Didn't know you were on this forum... Welcome to TERB...

(Or is it Steve?)

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

........and even in TTC Ticket Booth.

And here I thought we'd go a full ten posts without another reference to that picture...

 

[ogrovni]

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

Whereas I am not so naive to assume that this sorta thing does not happen from time to time in some of the less scrupulous members of the supply chain, but not for a company as high profile as Microsoft. There is likely some sort of other explanation for that photo...

Social compliance in Chinese factories, although not up to North American standards, (it is a completely different standard of living... and therefore not comparable), it has grown on an exponential level in recent years. I work for an agency that produces product for the North American market and all of our factories have to go through routine random 3rd party audits to make sure its social standards are up to par. They are EXTREMELY STRICT, and factories must keep accurate documentation showing overtime hours, employee ages etc for every employee (sometimes well into the 10's of thousands) and everything is painstaking checked for infractions and forgeries. EVERYTHING is checked and rechecked... on an on going basis sometimes 3-4 times a year. Safety standards, employee conditions etc are all included... and if any infractions are discovered, you risk being "red listed" which is the kiss of death for any factory.

you sir have just proven how Stupid you are.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

you sir have just proven how Stupid you are.

He's far from Stupid. More than 1% of his posts are highly intelligent...and that's more than four times your total post-count.

CG just happens to be wrong in this case. Probably because he works with people of integrity, he does not realize how many truly evil business people are lurking out there.

 

[C Dick]

Microsoft are pretty smart. Not ethical, but smart, so it is pretty likely they pick efficient suppliers, not suppliers that let people sleep on the job. So I assume the workers in the picture are on a break, and choosing to sleep. They may be working 100 hours a week, who knows.

It is not unethical or exploitive to pay someone ten cents an hour, unless you force them, or trick them or something like that. If workers are choosing to work for ten cents an hour, that is not a bad reflection on the person paying them, it is a bad reflection on the whole economy, that the wages are so low there and so much higher elsewhere.

The solution is more globalization and free trade, so that everyone has a chance to participate fully in the world's economy and better themselves. There are lots of issues with that, such as evil corporations, corrupt governments, greedy unions, etc. But the person paying ten cents an hour is not the problem, presumably if they didn't, the next best job would be even worse. If you feel it is unjust, you pay them eleven cents, or more. Otherwise, do not whine.

 

[danmand]

you sir have just proven how Stupid you are.

I second that opinion.

 

[Cycleguy007]

you sir have just proven how Stupid you are.

Why thank you... Coming from the likes of you, I will consider that a compliment.

But enough about all that...

I still say the article is bullshit. This is my business- it is what I do for a living. As I said in my first post- I am not so naive to believe that everything in the world is done above board and totally innocent. I am well aware of the stories coming from unscrupulous business people, not just in China but all parts of the world including our own country. But large multinational companies like Microsoft, Walmart, etc are not the culprits here... The working conditions in China have been getting much better for the workers in the last 20 years and in large part BECAUSE these companies are demanding social responsibility for the workers due to the moral pressure being placed on them.

I know... it is my livelihood.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Yup, no need for unions anymore. Not at all.

People like Cycleguy will tell you that "moral persuasion" does the job. You know, the same thing companies like Walmart say in the US. You know, those stores with the zombie clerks with dead eyes working for minimum wage?