Blue Jays 2010

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
As Carlos Degrado winds down his career, will he be HOF worthy or will he be just another Dale Murphy (close but no cigar)?
Hmm..lets see.

Lifetime .280 hitter with a .383 OBP 473 HRS 1512 RBI's

I'll bet my bottom dollar that he wasn't juiced.

If so those are some pretty good numbers in the steroid era.

Problem is that he was only a two time allstar ?

If he can just squeeze out two more decent seasons, say 25HRS 80RBI's.

I'd say yes on volume alone.

Always thought he would great in pinstripes aiming for that short porch in right at the old stadium.
 

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
One more thing about Delgado.

He's probably one of the classiest guys to play the game and the sports writers won't forget that.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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One more thing about Delgado.

He's probably one of the classiest guys to play the game and the sports writers won't forget that.
+1 from me and amen to that!
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Always thought he would great in pinstripes aiming for that short porch in right at the old stadium.
Nothing wrong with the new short porch in right, either.

Not sure if 1500 RBI's is enough. Too bad.

Knowing what Amerks are like, some writers might still resent him for not "properly" acknowledging whatever patriotic song it was they played during the Iraq invasion.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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+ 2 for me (glad you guys started this thread, seems like I been too busy lately with life)
I look forward to the day both Delgado and Pat Hentgen have their names on the Rogers Centre level of fame. Long overdue for Hentgen and he should have gotten his LONG BEFORE Alomar.
 

Ironhead

Son of the First Nation
Sep 13, 2008
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Knowing what Amerks are like, some writers might still resent him for not "properly" acknowledging whatever patriotic song it was they played during the Iraq invasion.
What is this now ? What did he do or not do ?
 

Captain Fantastic

...Winning
Jun 28, 2008
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Sorry to disagree with you fine gentlemen.
Lest we forget.

At age 27 in 2006 Wells hit .303 with 32 hrs and 106 rbi's

That combined with stellar defence made him one if the top centre fielders in the game.

There was no reason too believe that his production was going too drop off severely.

He was just entering his prime.

The thinking was that he was going to continue too improve and if he could have put up those numbers for the rest of his contract then everybody would have been happy.

The big problem with his contract is that it is back loaded and thus making him impossible too move.

At one time Wells was looking like he had HOF potential or close too it.
I agree with the O. VW looked like a solid signing a few years ago. Dunno whether he just didn't come back from injuries or whether he misses Delgado's protection too much to adapt, but no one could have predicted the drop off.

Rios OTOH was always a bad signing.
Before signing that ridiculous, 7-year, $126 million contract in 2006 Vernon Wells had exactly TWO seasons where he was even 30% better than the average hitter. 2003 (OPS+ of 132) and 2006 (OPS+ of 129.) Other than that, V-Dub was an average hitter - look it up. Yes, he was a Gold Glove centre fielder, but his defensive metrics were already on the decline in 2006 as he bulked up.

For a team like the Jays, they could simply not afford to sign one player to 20%+ of their payroll (based on his average annual salary - by the end of the albatross of a deal, it may very well work out to almost one-third of the Jays' payroll) with a career OBP of .329 and OPS under .800. He IS a star, a nice guy and an above-average all-around player at a premium position. He is NOT a superstar, a true team leader and someone worthy of one of the 10-15 largest contracts ever given. Not even on potential of his two best seasons, which were inflated and somewhat overrated. The two first round draft picks would have been a better tradeoff if the team couldn't get a decent return via trade.

Unlike some of the vitriolic posters and "fans" I don't blame Vernon Wells or his agent - he is what he is as a player. And who among us would turn down that kind of scratch? I blame JP Ricciardi, Paul Godfrey and the Jays management at the time for making a poor business decision that will cripple this organization until 2015.

$126 million for a player like Vernon Wells on a team like the Yankees, Mets, or Red Sox? Maybe. For a team like the Toronto Blue Jays? Not in a million years.

Excellent article/statistical piece that breaks down Vernon Wells' projected value over the course of his contract: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/will-vernon-wells-be-worth-the-price/
 

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
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$126 million for a player like Vernon Wells on a team like the Yankees, Mets, or Red Sox? Maybe. For a team like the Toronto Blue Jays? Not in a million years.
Thank you Captain for a through clinical analysis. I always thought that VW was overrated even when he had two good but not great hitting years. (Also, we lost the good Doctor because of that damn contract.) I think he will finish his career as at best an average hitter but more likely as mediocre. Sorry to be so blunt.
 

salsamarc

Semi-Retired Shill Hunter
Jul 15, 2004
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Sorry to disagree with you fine gentlemen.


Unlike some of the vitriolic posters and "fans" I don't blame Vernon Wells or his agent - he is what he is as a player. And who among us would turn down that kind of scratch? I blame JP Ricciardi, Paul Godfrey and the Jays management at the time for making a poor business decision that will cripple this organization until 2015.
That's it right there, very well said in a nut shell
 

maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
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Terrible hitter. At times very good, but not great defensively - but I'd say not good enough defensively to justify carrying his bat in an already potentially weak hitting lineup.

Here are more advanced stats:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/alex-gonzalez.shtml

Basically hes the old Alex Gonzalez except teenage girls dont gush all over him.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=520&position=SS
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaal02.shtml

Have a look at the defensive metrics, win probability and value.
Basically the old Alex Gonzalez, minus teenage girls gushing all over him.
 

maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
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Do you guys have any thoughts on RHP Merkin Valdez's bid to make the Jays' bullpen. I think he's still a little "bush league" to stick.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=tor&playerID=429723
Not much too like. But there are many instances of relievers around that age, just all of a sudden getting it (or getting or enhancing one pitch), and making a nice run for three years. Almost every team has a solid reliever who didnt really do anything until his late twenties... but really its entirely random.
 

maurice93

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Mar 29, 2006
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maurice93

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$126 million for a player like Vernon Wells on a team like the Yankees, Mets, or Red Sox? Maybe. For a team like the Toronto Blue Jays? Not in a million years.
I think paying that for a player on the Jays would be OK, but only if he had three or four years of sustained excellence, not just paying for one peak year. Way too much of a risk in Wells case.
 

Ironhead

Son of the First Nation
Sep 13, 2008
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he refused to stand when they played "America the Beautifull) is that what it is called???? as a sign of protest for the Iraq occupation by George "The Killer" Bush
Thanks, I kind of recall that now that I think of it and you mention Iraq and 'the Bush Sitter'.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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McGowan to start season on DL. Things not looking good for Jays at this point.
 
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