Revoke Smoking Ban In Toronto?
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It's not often that I agree with TBOY but the quote above is perfectly correct.
Smokers are the only visible minority it's that anyone can take a shot at without being called racist. Obviously many non-smokers have some serious issues that they are working out on the backs of smokers. It's sad.
just face reality
It's sad to see people still defending smoking. To all the smokers out there: You can play down the heath issues all you want, but they're still there. You can pretend it's a habit all you want, but it's an addiction and you know it. You know you want to quit, but you think you can't. You can. It's hard, but you can.
If you have the right to force your second hand smoke on me, then by the same logic I should be allowed to drink and drive. It's my car, my right! If you don't like me driving drunk then you should get off the road. See how stupid that sounds?
I see people comparing car exhaust to smoking. Ok, let's. Almost every activity we humans do in our modern world creates some sort of pollution. That's the trade off we're willing to make in order to achive something else. Transportation, food supply, all goods and services we consume, create pollution.
Cigarettes are required by nobody. Nobody needs them to live. They offer no positive side. They're created to deliver a drug that nobody needs, just so you'll continue to buy more. That's it.
Not quite the same thing as driving a car.
Break the addiction and you won't waste your time trying to defend the very thing that's trying to kill you.
Cheers.
It's sad to see people still defending smoking. To all the smokers out there: You can play down the heath issues all you want, but they're still there. You can pretend it's a habit all you want, but it's an addiction and you know it. You know you want to quit, but you think you can't. You can. It's hard, but you can.
If you have the right to force your second hand smoke on me, then by the same logic I should be allowed to drink and drive. It's my car, my right! If you don't like me driving drunk then you should get off the road. See how stupid that sounds?
I see people comparing car exhaust to smoking. Ok, let's. Almost every activity we humans do in our modern world creates some sort of pollution. That's the trade off we're willing to make in order to achive something else. Transportation, food supply, all goods and services we consume, create pollution.
Cigarettes are required by nobody. Nobody needs them to live. They offer no positive side. They're created to deliver a drug that nobody needs, just so you'll continue to buy more. That's it.
Not quite the same thing as driving a car.
Break the addiction and you won't waste your time trying to defend the very thing that's trying to kill you.
Cheers.
WTF???
The non-smokers aren't causing any problems by not smoking, it's the smokers who are the problem.
It is being discussed. Kicking smokers seems to be working, so they will keep doing it. There are increasing rules, and discussion of rules about outdoor smoking, such as no smoking close to public buildings, and no smoking on the beach. I think it is already illegal to smoke on the beach in Los Angeles.
What I would do for smoking law is
1) Accept that adult smokers should have the right to smoke without undue persecution, so I would allow separate ventilated smoking areas and things like that. I don't think it is fair to just say too bad, it is not really their fault. Most smokers I know got addicted as kids and can't help it.
2) Set a cut-off date for kids to never smoke. So you might say that 1992 is the last birth year for smokers, that anyone born in 1993 or later can never smoke, so 20 years from now, they ID you if you look under 40. That way existing smokers don't get mistreated too much, but there is a strategy for eventually eliminating it entirely.
As per usual your an idiot.
If you read what I said, I would never smoke in a car when a youngster is in the vehicle.
What I object to zealots who think they know what best & want to control others behavior by whining until they get their law passed
1. Your self indignant rant about the smell of smoke ruining your titie bar experience is a pile of Bullshit.
I bet the smoke did not stop you from going the ripper palace for 20-30 years before the ban.
Does it bother you more now than it did then?
If so why ?
Its because its justification for trampling on long accepted rights without any consideration for compromise.
2. Fair warning to you- one day these same self righteous zealots will pass a law that infringes on one of your vices and then you will scream bloody murder.
Example they tried Prohibition in the 1920s & look at the results.
A drunk driver's actions endanger not only themselves, but all those around. Sometimes with deadly consequences. So it's actually a pretty good comparison.
You're proving my point. Everything you've mentioned either produces pleasure for the consumer, or is necessary for life (pizza was considered food the last time I checked).
Nicotine addiction provides NOTHING. Sure, you smoke and you "feel better", but only because you're addicted to nicotine in the first place. You don't actually feel better from smoking, it brings you back to normal. Get rid of the addiction and you feel like that all the time.
I don't care what anyone does to themselves, but your "right" to smoke ends where my lungs begin. Period.
Actually the smell of cigarette smoke does bother me a lot more than it used to. Now that I can enjoy most of my life w/o having to breathe it in, it is very noticeable (and disgusting) when I am around it.
I'm a non smoker who enjoys the smoking bans -- but only for the benefits and comfort it gives me.
Overall I see smoking bans as hypocritical and unfair to smokers -- designed to cater to wackos and special interest groups. The same element that wants to deprive the obese of medical attention, take away our trans fats and prostitutes, and force us to wear seat belts in cars and helmets on motorcycles.
Tolerating other people's tobacco smoke is no different than tolerating their bad cologne, BO, bad breath, farts, or obnoxious opinions. Yes the facts are in on second hand smoke, but if you don't smoke, your clean living will detoxify a couple hours of exposure on a Saturday night. We either tolerate each other or stay home. But controlling people's behavior in public is just wrong.
Overall I see smoking bans as hypocritical and unfair to smokers -- designed to cater to wackos and special interest groups. The same element that wants to deprive the obese of medical attention, take away our trans fats and prostitutes, and force us to wear seat belts in cars and helmets on motorcycles.
Tolerating other people's tobacco smoke is no different than tolerating their bad cologne, BO, bad breath, farts, or obnoxious opinions. Yes the facts are in on second hand smoke, but if you don't smoke, your clean living will detoxify a couple hours of exposure on a Saturday night. We either tolerate each other or stay home. But controlling people's behavior in public is just wrong.
imo it should be up the the owner of the establishment..
if customers dont like it, they can go to another bar/club/restaurant
if employees dont like it, work elsewhere
before i get flamed for this, i know both sides of the argument as i have written many papers on this subject during my university days..
to me its simple solution..
and i know ppl will cry that its unfair to do it this way but at the end of the day you still have a choice as to where you eat or drink.. last time i checked this was supposed to be a free country..
and if this isn't enough, at least allow bars to bring back smoking rooms..
if customers dont like it, they can go to another bar/club/restaurant
if employees dont like it, work elsewhere
before i get flamed for this, i know both sides of the argument as i have written many papers on this subject during my university days..
to me its simple solution..
and i know ppl will cry that its unfair to do it this way but at the end of the day you still have a choice as to where you eat or drink.. last time i checked this was supposed to be a free country..
and if this isn't enough, at least allow bars to bring back smoking rooms..
Using this logic, why do we have health & safety standards in place for any industries?
Employers in other industries are not allowed to put their employees at undue risk. For example, we have railings when workers are on roofs, hard hats and safety boots for situations that call for them. Air quality readings are done in different factories, and breathing apparatus are used when necessary.
The Ontario Health & Safety Act gives any worker the right to refuse work in an unsafe environment. I'd say air filled with cigarette smoke is unsafe. Are restaurant/bar employees lesser workers than those in other businesses.
OK, that ONE incident voids the whole second hand smoke as causal effect on poor health. Yeah, we're brainwashed, but you're still an idiot.
All you have to do is watch somebody, who smoked, die of lung cancer and you won't like being referred to as wacko and a special interest group. It is an ugly slow way to die. The connection between cigarette smoke, smoking and lung cancer is only questioned by really stubborn and selfish people. If that includes any on this BB, sorry folks. Smokers are 6 times more likely to die from lung cancer, so why make it easier to die in such a manner. When you smoke you're also more susceptible to other diseases. If you think you detoxify after a couple of hours you don't remember getting up at you place after a party and smelling the smoke or getting into a car the after you've given a smoker a ride home. Nuts to that.
Other people's cologne, BO, bad breath, farts and obnoxious opinions, don't kill many people so there is a difference. We control people's public behavior all the time. The HTA , CC and by-law books are full of regulations that do just that. So you only drink on Saturday night? I surprised someone hasn't come out with,'it's my life and I can do what I want with'. Total bullshit, as you leave behind family and friend who watches you die and who suffer long after you're gone.
the key here is the right to refuse work in an unsafe environment... im not saying its safe or anything like that, only an idiot would.. but the point is they still have the right to choose
Yet there is some nut-job zealot out there for everyone of those vices (except perhaps pizza) who thinks that society would be better off if they were outlawed.
Hows this sound?
Your "Right" to fast food ends where the Health Care capacity of the country can not deal with the growing obesity and diabetes problem.
PERIOD
Your "Right" to engage the services of a willing hooker ends with societies view that she does not know what is best for her and it is considered degrading to all women
Your "Right" to drink ends with societies view that the evils of the Demon Rum must be eliminated
Your "Right" to view pictures and videos of hot women performing fellatio and get fucked up the ass end with societies view that pornography is an unnecessary addiction and should be banned
Perhaps you should consider what a shame it would be if your self-righteous, absolute stand on this issue is applied by the zealots to vices you have & that they have no room for any compromise
Not the same thing.
There are millions of government regulations - from Health, to automobiles, to water, to pollution, to industry, to Health and Safety, to Human Rights, to the building code, to O-Regs, to Bylaws.
They all set standards as to life with the express purpose of regulating various things to ensure a better existance for us all.
Extrapolating from your position, I could counter that the Government should not be in any position to dictate to anyone how to run their business, however, that is anarchy and not the way we do things in our society.
Owning a business does not give one carte blanche to operate however one chooses.
