Revoke Smoking Ban In Toronto?

[hesitant]

Do tell us more about the cigar clubs. All the whining with bad analogies like closing butcher shops isn't helping the case, but that's not to say there isn't one that can be made. Just like for cannabis cafes. But to get the law changed you'd have to show banning them was not in the public interest and allowing them was. Any argument based on free choice for smokers has an uphill struggle against the history of happy willingness of smokers to deny the right to free choice of breathing to anyone else.

Banned too.. so the druggies down at the cannibis club in kensington market should be stopped too... whats up with that? The owners allow pot smoking, but bet if I lit a cigar in there they would crap their pants...

The point i was making is that allowing complete outright bans was stupid, and just encourages the extremistic dicks to go further with pushing for their next ban... one that you may not be in favour of... and in fact it has started... I personallu an joining the soft drink tax issue since I think it will take decades to get a complete ban, but hey we can at least raise taxes to pay for the medical expenses for all thos eobese fat assed diabetics...

 

[hesitant]

Smoking laws do the same job. Want them changed? Acting like spoiled cybabies is poor strategy; better to demonstarte how no one else will, be bothered or inconvenced, never mind harmed. Meantime equal rights for smokers means they have the same right to smoke as anyone else. None. Because no has a right to harm, or even to inconvenience or annoy others.

Oldjones, you dont get it... there are many people waiting to challenge the law, once it is pushed too far, and the best way to change is to dialogue and discuss like is going on here... that is how those who wanted the ban got started...

What now you dont want us to have the right of free speech on the subject... again the anti-smoking nazis are at work, we cannot even complain about inequities, and how there should be some allowances that would permit exceptions or limited exemptions from the law... typcial.
Thank god most people still support free speech

 

[tboy]

and I fully support the reduced in the alcohol level for a 24 hrs suspension and if it comes to it, I'll support a 100% no tolerance policy so that someone with even .001 mg of alcohol on their breath loses their licence for 5 yrs.

Oh, and also the public intoxication ban whereby you'll be jailed for 24 hrs if you're found to be under the influence in public.
and I'll fully support the surcharge on fast foods,
and the banning of drive throughs,
and request there be a surcharge on all non-fat free foods
and sooner or later? I'll get around to something YOU care about......

And that 'right' is severely limited by emission standards applied to the car before you even get to think of buying it, and continuing standards that have to be met when you plate it or sell it. In fact, just like you can smoke at home but not out in the community. You can own that polluting car at home, just not get the plates to drive it anywhere.

ah but you avoided the obvious: that automobile emissions pollute the air infinitely more than all smokers put together. But there's no "ban" on them. To refute your claim: all cars only have to pass the emissions standard that was present on their date of manufacture. What that means I can drive my 1969 camaro with NO pollution control perfectly legally TYVM.

Same as a 1980 dodge van. No problem getting it plated because as long as it passes the emissions standards of 1980, it can be driven legally.

If cars are so clean, I put this to you:
We'll go into your garage. I will smoke one cigarette after another for an hour.
Then we'll start your car and let it idle with you in the garage for an hour.

If they're so clean, you'll be fine.

If you DON'T do this "bet" you should STFU before you make a bigger ass out of yourself.......

Like I said: you fell for the biggest bait and switch on recorded history......DUH

Smoking laws do the same job. Want them changed? Acting like spoiled cybabies is poor strategy; better to demonstarte how no one else will, be bothered or inconvenced, never mind harmed. Meantime equal rights for smokers means they have the same right to smoke as anyone else. None. Because no has a right to harm, or even to inconvenience or annoy others.

You really are brainwashed aren't you? do you even LISTEN to yourself?

I CAN legally smoke outside in public. There is NO ban on that. They tried that in Concord and it was voted down in the mid 90s.

Smoking laws and the way you are focused on them is just what the governing bodies wanted and YOU fell for it hook line and sinker.....

I mean, did you ever go in for a med exam and end up losing a couple of hours that you can't account for? you're so wrapped up in the party line you are ceasing to make any sense whatsoever.......

 

[Cycleguy007]

Even when I was a smoker the smoke filled bars would bother my eyes, but since I was contributing to that problem... well, I put up with it as long as I could.

Then, I quit smoking 6043 days ago. Then the smoke filled rooms really started to bother my eyes, and I would get coughing spells every once in awhile... so after awhile I just basically stopped going to bars... Its only been in the last couple years I started going again...

If the OP ever gets his wish... no worries- I'll just stop going to bars again. No problem. My health means more to me than a could hours in a bar every now and again.

 

[Hammerstein]

Frankly Hammy, you're kidding yourself if you think that anyone you're not gagging with the fumes cares a rat's fart whether you smoke. Just keep all that smoke to yourself, there's agood boy.

But if you breathe it on me or anyone else, you're picking a fight the numbers say you're gonna lose. You've already lost; don't make it worse.

But if you promise only to exhale into a garbage bag, I'll support you in a campaign to smoke wherever they can accpommodate your crap-sack. Just not in the seat in front of me at CB OK?

Frankly I don't care if anyone cares that I smoke or not. As for keeping the smoke to myself well that is kinda hard to do considering I smoke outdoors. Which just ahppens to be where I work and spend most of my time
After all I do take into consideration other people and the enviorment I am in at the time.
Breathing it on you or anyone else you say I am picking a fight that i will lose.... go ahead take the first swing I am sure John Law will be happy to take you some place else.
As for the seat in front of you I will assume you mean the CannonBall..... no worries I have never been there no do I have any plans to go there

 

[oldjones]

I haven't a clue what point you're trying to make about soft drinks hesitant, but smoking in public places is illegal, and so's cannabis possession. Although a doctor's prescription to take cannabis as medication by smoking would make for an interesting argument in court. By all means complain about smoking pot in Kensington if that turns you on. Nothing I know of in any law permits smoking anything in public.

And whining about what else bozos might one day ban makes no case against the ban on forcing others to share your poisonous smoke. Can't fix stupid.

If you want a more reasonable setup than the outright ban, you gotta make a proposal and a case, not just complain.

 

[tboy]

Even when I was a smoker the smoke filled bars would bother my eyes, but since I was contributing to that problem... well, I put up with it as long as I could.

Then, I quit smoking 6043 days ago. Then the smoke filled rooms really started to bother my eyes, and I would get coughing spells every once in awhile... so after awhile I just basically stopped going to bars... Its only been in the last couple years I started going again...

If the OP ever gets his wish... no worries- I'll just stop going to bars again. No problem. My health means more to me than a could hours in a bar every now and again.

Actually, to be honest, I don't mind popping out for a butt because bars in the 80s and 90s were unbearable.

But that isn't the point of this thread: the point I and others are trying to make is business owners should have the right to determine if we want to have people who smoke, or those that don't, as customers.

Just like if the government came along and told you what kind of bike that you must ride, you wouldn't like it either.......

Or more appropriately, telling you what kind of shoes to sell.......how would you feel if they came along and said YOU can only sell athletic shoes? Or maybe BUNNY slippers?

 

[islandman4567]

what I don't understand is why they banned the smoking rooms in strip clubs and bars. If its all about non smokers not having to breathe second hand smoke, then why can't people who smoke have the right to do so in a room with proper ventilation.

and , if the waiters/waitress' don't smoke then they don't have to serve in those rooms. seems like an easy solution to me.
all the people complaining about being forced to breathe in second hand smoke have a legitimate argument, but to impose your belief that people should not smoke on others is the same argument from the other side of the mirror.

I'm sure non drinkers would love to impose the same rules for drinking , maybe a 500% increase on tax , and an ABSOLUTE ZERO blood/alcohol level if you're driving, punishable by a lifetime ban on driving if caught.

same argument for people that don't drive, why should they be forced to breathe in toxic fumes from cars?
anyone here willing to give up their car?

 

[tboy]

but smoking in public places is illegal,

there, I told you you would make an ass out of yourself.......

You bonehead, smoking is NOT illegal in public places, only indoors....

It is perfectly legal to smoke in parks, bandstands, outdoor soccer fields, the street, patios, as long as it doesn't have a roof over it.....

 

[Hammerstein]

And that 'right' is severely limited by emission standards applied to the car before you even get to think of buying it, and continuing standards that have to be met when you plate it or sell it. In fact, just like you can smoke at home but not out in the community, you can own that polluting car at home, just not get the plates to drive it anywhere

WHich still spews out more pollution than me and my smokes. Historic cars are de not meet emission standards of today and yet they are still on the roads.

 

[tboy]

what I don't understand is why they banned the smoking rooms in strip clubs and bars. If its all about non smokers not having to breathe second hand smoke, then why can't people who smoke have the right to do so in a room with proper ventilation.

....

What's worse is they DID pass a law that said that an establishment COULD allow smoking with a separate smoking room. But after all these places spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building these rooms, 6 months later they passed an outright ban.

I remember at the time there was a 60% attrition rate for bars and restaurants and coffee shops who went broke after spending all that money.......

 

[Cycleguy007]

Actually, to be honest, I don't mind popping out for a butt because bars in the 80s and 90s were unbearable.

But that isn't the point of this thread: the point I and others are trying to make is business owners should have the right to determine if we want to have people who smoke, or those that don't, as customers.

Just like if the government came along and told you what kind of bike that you must ride, you wouldn't like it either.......

Or more appropriately, telling you what kind of shoes to sell.......how would you feel if they came along and said YOU can only sell athletic shoes? Or maybe BUNNY slippers?

Hee hee I sell athletic shoes... AND bunny slippers! LOL

But Back to the point at hand... I could really care less if a business owner wanted to allow smoking in their bar... I just wouldn't visit that bar. End of discussion, for me at least.

 

[tboy]

Hee hee I sell athletic shoes... AND bunny slippers! LOL

But Back to the point at hand... I could really care less if a business owner wanted to allow smoking in their bar... I just would visit that bar. End of discussion, for me at least.

EXACTLY EUREKA someone has a brain....and it isn't a scarecrow!!!!

Knew there was something about you I liked.....ah, logic.....weird when you apply it in real life eh?

 

[oldjones]

Frankly I don't care if anyone cares that I smoke or not. As for keeping the smoke to myself well that is kinda hard to do considering I smoke outdoors. Which just ahppens to be where I work and spend most of my time
After all I do take into consideration other people and the enviorment I am in at the time.
Breathing it on you or anyone else you say I am picking a fight that i will lose.... go ahead take the first swing I am sure John Law will be happy to take you some place else.
As for the seat in front of you I will assume you mean the CannonBall..... no worries I have never been there no do I have any plans to go there

There's no ban on smoking in the great outdoors, nor has anyone suggested one. You don't seem to have a dog in this fight.

Nor do you seem to have the vision of considerate smokers in a titty bar exhaling into garbage bags, and creating another annoyance by blocking the view. But then considerate smokers is a huge oxymoron to accept, isn't it?

Finally "picking fights". Smokers have already lost this one. And the numbers say they will continue to do so. That's why we have the law we do. They get ejected if they don't butt out, and I do what I can to see they do. You get numbers by making nice, something I have yet to see a smoker do. None have shown up here. But you seem to be talking something more physical, starting with an assault by smoke. If you really think that stuff advances the cause, you go right ahead, like you say, John Law has places to take you.

But I fail to see how it improves your lot or the lot of smokers in general.

 

[tboy]

There's no ban on smoking in the great outdoors, nor has anyone suggested one. ......

Ummm YOU suggested there was when you said "smoking is illegal in public places"....

Ah keep droning on and on......

 

[oldjones]

What's worse is they DID pass a law that said that an establishment COULD allow smoking with a separate smoking room. But after all these places spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building these rooms, 6 months later they passed an outright ban.

I remember at the time there was a 60% attrition rate for bars and restaurants and coffee shops who went broke after spending all that money.......

As I remember it, the original law gave the date for the end of separate smoking rooms. They were temporary from the get go. But I was wrong once before.

The saddest smoking room I encountered was a doughnought shop near Coxwell where you bought the stuff, went out on the street and then entered the completely separate room through another street door. No staff, no service. Nothing but tables, chairs, ashtrays and smoke.

 

[islandman4567]

As I remember it, the original law gave the date for the end of separate smoking rooms. They were temporaty from the get go.

so, do you have a beef with the separate smoking room? you wouldn't be forced to breathe second hand smoke.

 

[tboy]

As I remember it, the original law gave the date for the end of separate smoking rooms. They were temporaty from the get go.

and your memory fails you.....

they were never temporary. I know this for a fact because I was involved with the management of a bar and saw the ordnance(s). We also put down a heft deposit on the work to be done and before the contractor could start the second ban came out. Luckily we only lost $10,000.00 on the deal.

There was talk about a class action lawsuit but we were told to drop it else we get inspected daily and be cited and closed for the slightest infraction........

 

[tboy]

so, do you have a beef with the separate smoking room? you wouldn't be forced to breathe second hand smoke.

he has a beef with smoking in general.....he has been brainwashed to be so anti smoking he forgets to look for the real cause of so many health issues.

When I have time I will see if I can dig up the scoop on the woman in the anti smoking ads who said she worked at a diner for 25 yrs and never smoked a day in her life yet was dying of cancer.

There was a report that she either did smoke, or that the type of cancer she had wasn't caused by smoking........(second hand or otherwise). There was a big brouhaha over that and the ads were dropped real quick......

 

[oldjones]

and your memory fails you.....

they were never temporary. I know this for a fact because I was involved with the management of a bar and saw the ordnance(s). We also put down a heft deposit on the work to be done and before the contractor could start the second ban came out. Luckily we only lost $10,000.00 on the deal.

There was talk about a class action lawsuit but we were told to drop it else we get inspected daily and be cited and closed for the slightest infraction........

I defer to your personal knowledge.