Toronto Passions

Would you see an SP if you knew she had been lured/tricked into working?

Would you see an SP if you knew she had been lured or tricked into working as an SP?

  • No, not under any circumstances

    Votes: 102 81.0%
  • Maybe, so long as she got used to it

    Votes: 7 5.6%
  • Yes, so long as she gets paid a fair rate for it

    Votes: 6 4.8%
  • Yes, why not?

    Votes: 11 8.7%

  • Total voters
    126

genintoronto

Retired
Feb 25, 2008
3,226
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Downtown TO
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Gen perhaps it is because I'm reading quickly but this sounds more like an advocacy for making prostiution illegal than anything else. :confused:
You are reading too quickly.

Basically, there are two main groups of feminists doing work, research, and advocacy around sex work: the anti-prostitution/anti-trafficking group, and those who advocate for the rights of sex workers and for the transformation of the sex industry, mostly by calling for a decriminalization of sex work, the recognition of prostitution as legitimate work, and for an extension to sex workers of the social and labor rights and protection generally granted to other workers.

One of their main argument in favor of the transformation rather than the abolition of the sex industry is that the abuse and exploitation of sex workers isn't inherent to sex work, but rather conditioned by the moral and legal constraints associated with the industry which puts them in vulnerable position. They also suggest that slavery-like practices and trafficking in women are the result of economic, political and gender inequalities, rather than being inherent to or the necessary consequence of prositution (as the anti-prostitution/anti-trafficking advocates suggest). In addition, while trafficking and slavery-like practices are commonly associated only with prostitution, these feminist and sex workers organizations emphasize their existence in a variety of other labor sector, such as domestic work, farm work, and factory work. As such, the critique they direct at the sex industry tends to distance itself from moral or emotive arguments, and to focus on the social, political, and economic conditions that make these exploitative practices possible.

For instance, they point to the lack of viable economic options, which restrains women from choosing the terms and the conditions under which they want to work; to the exclusion of sex workers from society and the denial of their rights, which puts them in a position where they can be abused with impunity (by clients, pimps, and the police); to the criminalization and other punitive or restrictive measures aimed at abolishing prostitutions and the sex trade (including restrictive immigration politicies) which push sex workers further into marginality and create the need for prostitutes to require the protection and assistance of pimps, smugglers, or agents who take advantage of their vulnerability to exploit them. Accordingly, those feminists and sex workers believe that the only way to fight the abuse and exploitation of sex workers and to combat the trafficking in women is to politically and legally recognize the existence of prostitution and to guarantee the human and labor rights of prostitutes.
 

Questor

New member
Sep 15, 2001
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Basically, there are two main groups of feminists doing work, research, and advocacy around sex work: the anti-prostitution/anti-trafficking group, and those who advocate for the rights of sex workers and for the transformation of the sex industry, mostly by calling for a decriminalization of sex work, the recognition of prostitution as legitimate work, and for an extension to sex workers of the social and labor rights and protection generally granted to other workers.
Very well said Gen. Thank you for helping to focus my thoughts on the subject. Not just the above quote, but everything in both posts on the subject. I am most definitely for the recognition of sex work as legitimate work and for the extension of social and labour rights generally granted other workers. And it doesn't matter if we are talking about Toronto or Bangkok or Manila. I think I know what you are doing your thesis on.

Good luck with the SP101 tonight, Gen. Sounds like a great idea.
 

wet_suit_one

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Aug 6, 2005
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White slavery? Absolutely not. If I even suspected it, it would totally kill the fun.

Having said that, it's not always clear cut.

A long time ago, I saw a mature EE MPA who provided great service. She was friendly, chatty and always smiling. It wasn't until my third session that she told me that she worked three jobs (including massaging) to support her deadbeat, abusive husband. wtf.

Then there's the even grayer area - How many women are actually in the business by absolute choice? As in, this is what they really want to do?


I'll take a wild guess and say fairly few. Likely, most girls are in it because it's the most expedient choice to cope with some unfortunate personal financial situation. That's sad too.
Wait a second... You're saying they don't have a choice? I think not. I work because I was born into the unfortunate circumstance of having to work for a living and not being a trust fund baby. There's plenty that any woman could do to make a life for herself other than SP'ing. I'm not going to feel sorry for any woman who chooses to do this no matter why she chose to do it. I respect a woman's autonomy (which is why seeing a woman forced into this is totally disgusting and wrong). If she chooses to do this, I will accept that choice and give her my business (no pun intended) if I think she's worth the money. If I was in business, I'd ask for nothing more.
 

wet_suit_one

New member
Aug 6, 2005
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Some escorts are economic slaves to the industry, it's the only way for them to pay the bills while they're raising a kid after the father took off.
Sure it's their own "choice", but it isn't one they would make if they had other skills.

Would I see them? Sure, no problem.
Hey, they can be a poor woman working at a grocery store or somewhere else just like anyone else. They are lucky in a way to have the choice (i.e. the choice to make a pretty good go of it selling sex that is). Heterosexual men certainly don't.
 

wet_suit_one

New member
Aug 6, 2005
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The 8% of you who, so far, have voted for one of the yes options are reprehensible subhumans who should immediately seek treatment for your dangerous mental disorders.

Amen to that. WTF? That many psychopaths in our midst who admit to it? Fuck. I knew I kept some lousy company here, but damn!
 

wet_suit_one

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Aug 6, 2005
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BTW, this is a far more intelligent discussion of the topic than most of the claptrap found in the MSM.

Thanks for your contribution Gen. Your mind is sexier than the rest of you. One of these days... ;)
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,145
1
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Detroit, USA
I have to wounder how many former SP's just go with the saying that they were tricked, forced in to the business to save their face.

You know like the drug dealers selling junk to kids and then saying, wow I never knew they were not adults otherwise I would have never sold them anything (rolls eyes)

Or the store owners selling smokes to those under 19 years old and then when busted go saying they really thought they looked over 18.

Of course some are tricked / forced in to working as SP's but not all who say there were really in fact were.
 

jeckyl

Banned
Oct 23, 2005
269
0
0
re: 8% who said yes....

I am not so quick to condemn...

The question in my opinion is poorly worded, the discussion is lively and the thread worthy so its not that important.

As I have already said:

Lured by money --- I have no problem with that, I believe every worker I visited does it because she was Lured by money.

The question is Lured or Tricked... I can answer YES and not be ashamed because the question doesn't stipulate what the lure was.......
"Tricked" - if a person was trafficked under false pretenses obviously NEVER.. I wouldn't see one.

WORD the poll like this:

Would you see a sex worker that is forced or coerced into working ...

I venture that you would get 100% NO.
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,145
1
0
Detroit, USA
I had an SP tell me while we were resting up that oh I just do this for the money. I go, oh no-here I thought I found true love, we both crack up laughing.

Shes gone from the business now (sad face) Seems like some of best don't stick around long.

Sure its not an easy job, one I sure could not do.


As for the polls, you always get these smart alks who will just vote in spite. Actions always speak louder than words.
 

HOF

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Aug 10, 2009
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Relocating February 1, 2012
In the early 1990's the largest pimping ring in N. America was infiltrated and shut down; They were called North Preston's Finest. North Preston is a suberb of Halifax and it is majority of young black men that become involved in this gang and get young Scotian girls to street hook. Then, they move the girls through New England, New York, Quebec and Toronto, and then further west in Canada and Washington St. There were brutal to the young girls who mainly worked in the area known as Hooker Harvey across from Allen Gardens (Jarvis/Gerrard). Certain housing complexes in Toronto and Brampton. The girls were forced into stripping and hooking. There is a book about this ring, "SOMEBODY'S DAUGHTER" written by a Toronto Officer and an RCMP Officer.

Well, North Preston's Finest is back in Ontario, mainly running out of clubs and seedy incalls thoughtout the Province and the other areas indicated. In fact, there have been two murders in the Niagara area just prior to Christmas that NPF's are being investigated for.
 

rama putri

Banned
Sep 6, 2004
2,993
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36
I find it hard to believe there are all these knights in shining armour. I just don't believe my fellow man and definitely not my fellow TERBie men.
 

wet_suit_one

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Aug 6, 2005
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I find it hard to believe there are all these knights in shining armour. I just don't believe my fellow man and definitely not my fellow TERBie men.
Your cynicism may be well founded, but we'll never know.

Wow, a correct use of the word cynicism (yes I am patting my own back). But that's another thread...
 

Possum Trot

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Dec 7, 2009
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Genin said:
One of their main argument in favor of the transformation rather than the abolition of the sex industry is that the abuse and exploitation of sex workers isn't inherent to sex work, but rather conditioned by the moral and legal constraints associated with the industry which puts them in vulnerable position
I think that's a fair statement. The political appitite to legalize (as opposed to allocating resources to law enforcement) does not seem to be there in North America unfortunately. In Canada, even an overwhelmingly liberal media is generally quite negative on sex work.
 

The Options Menu

Slightly Swollen Member
Sep 13, 2005
4,463
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For instance, they point to the lack of viable economic options, which restrains women from choosing the terms and the conditions under which they want to work; to the exclusion of sex workers from society and the denial of their rights, which puts them in a position where they can be abused with impunity (by clients, pimps, and the police); to the criminalization and other punitive or restrictive measures aimed at abolishing prostitutions and the sex trade (including restrictive immigration politicies) which push sex workers further into marginality and create the need for prostitutes to require the protection and assistance of pimps, smugglers, or agents who take advantage of their vulnerability to exploit them. Accordingly, those feminists and sex workers believe that the only way to fight the abuse and exploitation of sex workers and to combat the trafficking in women is to politically and legally recognize the existence of prostitution and to guarantee the human and labor rights of prostitutes.
So you're saying that informed choice for adults requires relatively free access to information, ability to understand the information, and the capacity to freely choose a course of action? :)

Actually the topic is interesting because it comes down to defining a line between making a choice involving notions of classical "Opportunity Cost" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost , which is normally confined to purchasing not labour, and defining what is an exploitative non-choice. It's pretty easy to say that a Bangkok Bar Girl who hails from an indigenous community on Thailand's border with Cambodia is being exploited... That case is far harder to make for a multi-generational white english or french Canadian from any part of Canada with some relatively non-abusive peer or family relationships. Interesting stuff...
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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I find it hard to believe there are all these knights in shining armour. I just don't believe my fellow man and definitely not my fellow TERBie men.
Perhaps so, however, do you believe that if a TERBite was in the room with an SP and she started crying and told of being trafficked and said TERBite had a phone they wouldn't call the police and put this woman on the 'phone, rather just go ahead with the session?
 

Captain Fantastic

...Winning
Jun 28, 2008
3,273
0
36
Perhaps so, however, do you believe that if a TERBite was in the room with an SP and she started crying and told of being trafficked and said TERBite had a phone they wouldn't call the police and put this woman on the 'phone, rather just go ahead with the session?
Yeah, but then the same TERBite would write a bad review! :D
 

Brill

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2008
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I find it hard to believe there are all these knights in shining armour. I just don't believe my fellow man and definitely not my fellow TERBie men.
I agree, lots of guys were either dishonest in their response or those people chose not to answer the poll.
I think many terb members would overlook her anxiety and continue with the session.
 

Questor

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Yeah, but then the same TERBite would write a bad review! :D
I see the smilie, so I hope you are joking. I don't believe terbites would then post a bad review. I think they would post the story and virtually everyone would commend them for what they had done.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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I think many terb members would overlook her anxiety and continue with the session.
Brill, seemingly that transforms the issue into how perceptive and intuitive are you, rather than if you know something is wrong. . .
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,145
1
0
Detroit, USA
Too bad there isn't someway of making it illegal to be with a SP who speaks out and says she is being forced by some man to be here and see any guy who comes in the room and gives her money.

You know so the police could do sting bust to any guys who still go ahead and hand the cash over to her.

That would be great and put their names in the papers--not these guys who don't have the $$ to see escorts but pick up SW who are willing working the streets.
 
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