The Meaning and Understanding of The Word 'NO'...

[genintoronto]

The point I'm attempting to make is that communication is a two way street. Just as clients need to assertain limits, SPs need to make plain what those limits are if they are not spelled out. Particularly is this so if a term with legal meaning such as "Forceable Sexual Act" is going to be used.

The point is, unless she tells you that she wants your load down her throat, you should assume she doesn't.

Like I assume you don't want my finger up your ass, unless you beg me for it.

This is really just common sense. Assume no is the answer until being told otherwise.

 

[keepmovingforward]

Obviously this is an issue for you, and I'm not going to beat the issue to death. Additionaly, in the case of your agency you have made it perfectly clear what your rules are. Clients should either respect them or not patrionize your agency.

The point I'm attempting to make is that communication is a two way street. Just as clients need to assertain limits, SPs need to make plain what those limits are if they are not spelled out. Particularly is this so if a term with legal meaning such as "Forceable Sexual Act" is going to be used.

i do agree with gen and previous posters who take this stand...yes it sucks to ask and get turned down for something you want. especially when u may possibly be asking for more than one thing and it all gets shot down. (i had a very conservative gf at one point...not fun in bed when this happens). but yeah. if your doing things where usually its a YMMV, its always a good idea to ask. i think if i were a male escort and a woman just decided to piss in my mouth as im going down on her...yeah...not fucking cool. does that paint a better picture for you?

 

[lurkerjoe]

The point is, unless she tells you that she wants your load down her throat, you should assume she doesn't.

Like I assume you don't want my finger up your ass, unless you beg me for it.

This is really just common sense. Assume no is the answer until being told otherwise.

Exactly, good communication would avoid any "misunderstandings" whether it's with a civilian or with a professional.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Remember

"No" 6 times, followed by "yes" once, means yes

 

[Possum Trot]

In other words, there's more to consent that not saying no. Consent means an enthusiastic, non-coerced, fully informed YES BABY!

I was thinking while I reading as to whether there were jerks out there who would actually change their behaviour as a result of reading this thread. Sadly I think that they would not.

Women oft times confuse me in the best of circumstances so to be asked to evaluate whether her consent for swallowing is enthusiastic or not may be beyond my judgement capabilities. Said capabilities are quite often somewhat impaired in the seconds before I explode. In view of this I have opted for "the warning" that I'm about to cum and let her decide for herself whether she wants to pull away.

 

[69Shooter]

Like I assume you don't want my finger up your ass, unless you beg me for it.

So, just to be clear, is "finger up the ass" one of the services you offer?

 

[Aardvark154]

In view of this I have opted for "the warning" that I'm about to cum and let her decide for herself whether she wants to pull away.

I agree. Perhaps I'm being way to literal, but I'm not sure that's what I'm hearing SecretRendezvous and Gen saying but rather everything should be scripted out in advance.

Obviously one should talk about kissing and such things in advance, and I do.

However, I continue to find it puzzling that the statement can be made that something is for all intents a sex crime e.g. a "Forcible Sexual Act" and yet there is no obligation to say no don't. If the statement were merely "we will ban you if you don't ask first" I suppose that I would never have bothered to post about this.

Obviously for what ever reason we are having a Cool hand Luke “Failure to communicate and are talking past each other.

As I've already said the rules at SecretRendezvous are spelled out and clients should heed them.

 

[SecretRendezvous]

I agree. Perhaps I'm being way to literal, but I'm not sure that's what I'm hearing SecretRendezvous and Gen saying but rather everything should be scripted out in advance.

Obviously one should talk about kissing and such things in advance, and I do.

However, I continue to find it puzzling that the statement can be made that something is for all intents a sex crime "Forcible Sexual Act" and yet the perpetrator has done this has no obligation to say no don't.

Obviously in some way we are having a Cool hand Luke “Failure to communicate and are talking past each other.

As I've already said the rules at SecretRendezvous are spelled out and clients should heed them.

I know that I am saying you NEVER do anything with a women without prior premission, meaning that you need to ask her first. It is not her job to list off all her don't to you. Escpaically with things that are not vanilla stlye sex. So anal, rimming, GS, CIM, fisting, bondage, etc. That is for All women, paid or not.

As far as the term "forcible sexual act" Tell me what you would call it? A guy shoots of his load down your throat without permission.... are you not "force" to take the load? Sure you can spit it back out, you are not being forced to swallow it, but you are being forced to take it in your mouth. It is a sexual act right, so please tell me what you would call it?

In my opinion it is a sexual assualt and a crime to do ANYTHING to a partner that they do not give premission for. As Gen said, it would be the same thing if I took a dildo and just shoved it up your ass without your prior consent.

I think you have more of an issue with this then I. Bottom line, anything that is done sexual with prior consent is an assualt and criminal. Disagree with my statement, or my calling it a "forcible sexual act" if you like. It is my opinion, and as I said, it will not change.

 

[69Shooter]

As far as the term "forcible sexual act" Tell me what you would call it? A guy shoots of his load down your throat without permission.... are you not "force" to take the load?

I am not a lawyer but, I assume that you could make a legal agrument that sucking a guy's cock could reasonably lead to said guy ejaculating in your mouth. Now, if it was not made clear ahead of time that that was not allowed then maybe there is an argument for calling that a "forcible sexual act". But, even in that case, I believe that the reasonable thing for the suckee to do would be to insist on the guy wearing a condem.

 

[genintoronto]

I agree. Perhaps I'm being way to literal, but I'm not sure that's what I'm hearing SecretRendezvous and Gen saying but rather everything should be scripted out in advance.

Of course not.

Exhibit A:
"Babe, your mouth is so fucking hot on my cock, I'm gonna blow soon. Where do you want me to shoot my load?"

Exhibit B:
"Oh fuck... oh... fuck... this is so fucking good... OMG, I'm about to cum... fuck... I'm cumming soon babe... ohhhhhhhhhh fuck... I'm cuming, I'm cuming, OH MY GOD!"

In both cases, the girl should have enough time to figure out whether or not she wants to have your jizz in her mouth. No need for a script. Just basic grown-ups-having-sex-together communication.

 

[SecretRendezvous]

I am not a lawyer but, I assume that you could make a legal agrument that sucking a guy's cock could reasonably lead to said guy ejaculating in your mouth. Now, if it was not made clear ahead of time that that was not allowed then maybe there is an argument for calling that a "forcible sexual act". But, even in that case, I believe that the reasonable thing for the suckee to do would be to insist on the guy wearing a condem.

You are getting into the nitty gritty of it all here, but personally I think a man should be a gentlemen and ask the lady first.

Also, some men who like a little anal digits, should again be okay with replacing that finger with a 9 inch strap on cock, right? I mean he let one thing happen.....

Look, I understand that you guys don't like the "term" I am using but maybe it is because it is a too real for your liking. Why you guys seem so intent on passing the buck off the lady to tell you "don't cum in my mouth, don't kiss inches to left and 1 inch down on my neck because I don't like that either, don't put your full 7 inches in, only 5 3/8 of it." That can get ridiculous. Same way as asking if you can do every little thing would be ridiculous too. As Gen said, normal sexual-adult-communication is fine.

Be a gentlemen, ask about the non-basic vanilla stuff, and follow whatever answer you are given. Why is this so hard to understand and accept?

 

[69Shooter]

... personally I think a man should be a gentlemen and ask the lady first.

Be a gentlemen, ask about the non-basic vanilla stuff, and follow whatever answer you are given. Why is this so hard to understand and accept?

I agree with you 100% and think it is very easy to understand. I was just pointing out that there could be some legimate gray area. Personally, I try to err on the side of caution and do not cim unless an sp specifically mentions it on her menu (in which case I expect the burden to be on her if, in my case, she would prefer not to allow it) or I ask and am given the go ahead.

 

[Aardvark154]

Be a gentlemen, ask about the non-basic vanilla stuff, and follow whatever answer you are given. Why is this so hard to understand and accept?

It isn't, I agree and I do. I've already beaten my major point to death and revisiting it yet again would do little good.

 

[SecretRendezvous]

It isn't, I agree and I do. I've already beaten my major point to death and revisiting it yet again would do little good.

Please PM then because honestly I would like to know what other term you think would be suitable.

I am not trying to beat a point to death either, but I am actually curious.

 

[Possum Trot]

Just basic grown-ups-having-sex-together communication.

Exactly my point, thx for expressing it succinctly.