Work from home opinions, the good, the bad or scam?

[Mr.lover]

What are the thoughts on remote work. The Public sector is asking for remote work, since pandemic they were able to serve Canadians remotely so why are they being forced back to office.
Honestly the WFH is subject to abuse and anything subject to abuse should have some preventive measures otherwise it should not be allowed. Thoughts?

 

[Carvher]

If they can work from home then I think the jobs should be outsourced so we the tax payers can save money.
They can then get a job that creates wealth rather than sucking on the public teet.

 

[james t kirk]

If they can work from home then I think the jobs should be outsourced so we the tax payers can save money.
They can then get a job that creates wealth rather than sucking on the public teet.

I've often said to the youngsters who work for me and all want to work "remotely", "well if your job can be done entirely from home, why am I paying you a hundred grand a year when I can just hire some guy in Nicaragua for 4 bucks an hour?"

 

[jalimon]

WFH will bring the second biggest cataclysm of our economy since most production manufacturing job were sent abroad at cheap laber in the 80, 90 and ealy 2000.

Now it's white collar service job that are starting to be sent abroad.

I, for my company, hired a team of 11 from the Philippines. For the salary of what 2 or 3 staff would cost in Canada. And they deliver!!

Loads of jobs moved oversea. Empty commercial real estate. I expect a big shift downward on our economy. Perhaps enough so residential housing/renting market will get down to affordable level..

 

[Geee]

What are the thoughts on remote work. The Public sector is asking for remote work, since pandemic they were able to serve Canadians remotely so why are they being forced back to office.
Honestly the WFH is subject to abuse and anything subject to abuse should have some preventive measures otherwise it should not be allowed. Thoughts?

Well working in an office is often subject to abuse by management at various companies so lets just not allow working in office either. In fact lets ban working altogeter because corporations abuse employees all the time through all the various holes in labor laws they've poked into the system with government bribery.

WFH has a number of advantages first and foremost being not being stuck in traffic for an hour+ twice a day, time that is unpaid by the way even though itnis time wasted specifically for work.

It's less stressful on work/life balance because you can deal with life shit and work shit in parallel and still get all your work done because you're not limited to "I have to be in the office from X to Y(+ travel time) so work has to be done in that box. If something comes up you can prioritize. And then just add on the time you "missed" at the end of the day as long as your work gets done.

Hell one a personal note I will go do loads of laundry, make a meal and even take naps on the couch during my "work hours" my boss knows this but as long as my shit gets done and I'm available when called or pinged he is totally fine with it. It just means my schedule slides around a bit Instead of being a 9-5 thing

I go to the office once a week (+ emergencies since I'm the IT guy.) occasionally more If I'm doing store equipment builts but even then a major part of those I can do remote.

It also means I have not used a single fucking sick day since the pandemic because I'm going to be near my computer anyway so unless it requires a doctor why the fuck wouldn't I justvrespond to that email


And for those of you going "well if your jobs can be done remotely then why don't I offshore and pay peanuts." You can... you'll be an exploitative piece of shit that supports slave labor and doesn't contribute to the local economy and job market like all those companies that have offshored factory work and humanity will hate you for it... but you can... you've had the ability to long before Covid.

Offshoring desk jobs has been a thing since the early 2000's just know that over all you generally get what you pay for though.

So here's the real question... if the work gets done, why not make your employees life less miserable by not forcing them to waste 2-3 hours of their day hauling their tired asses to and from an office on their dime both time and gas wise and help their work life balance in the process.

And the answer to this by clueless bosstards whenever it's asked is "Derrrr, Well how do I know they are actually working if I can't look at them in the office?" BECAUSE THE WORK FUCKING GETS DONE YOU OVERPAID USELESS FUCKTARDS.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's 2:40, I'm going to ride over to get groceries and alcohol, before my "work day" is over and then maybe even have a wank and my work for today is STILL going to get done, because I'm not stuck in a fucking office.

 

[krealtarron]

WFH is the future. If all you need for your work is a computer, internet connection and a desk, then you can do it from home. It has several benefits:

- No commuting - saving time and money.
- Better work life balance which makes for happier and more productive employees.
- Flexibility to work - there is no pressure to stop working at 5PM. Rather you can start whenever you want and stop whenever you want.
- Better physical health - where you can break work to go to the gym etc.,
- Not having to meet assholes at work - Yes. Minimal contact with people especially the assholes at work, helps mental health.
- Heck it saves companies money on leasing buildings and what not. Also think about the reduction in environmental impact for the climate conscious because of a reduction in commuting, and reduction in consumption of power by office buildings.

I have worked from home the last 10+ years and I can tell you this is the best way of working. I concentrate better, I am happier, I can play music when I work, watch TV when I work, heck be on TERB and work at the same time. And NOT ONCE has my productivity suffered. The only time I travel is when I travel abroad to engage my teams.

This needs to be normalized and more and more people should opt for WFH.

 

[krealtarron]

I've often said to the youngsters who work for me and all want to work "remotely", "well if your job can be done entirely from home, why am I paying you a hundred grand a year when I can just hire some guy in Nicaragua for 4 bucks an hour?"

So you pay them 100K for them to come to office. Not for the work that they do. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[richaceg]

So you pay them 100K for them to come to office. Not for the work that they do. Am I understanding you correctly?

Salaries and wages aren't based on skills alone. It also based on location, degree of difficulty and how much $$$ you can bring to the company. When my company moved from Scarborough to Markham...My boss gave me a nice increase even before I can say, I'm looking for another job. because the time to drive from Whitby to Markham takes longer than Whitby to Scarborough....then when we moved to a bigger building in Concord...I got another increase...

 

[krealtarron]

Salaries and wages aren't based on skills alone. It also based on location, degree of difficulty and how much $$$ you can bring to the company. When my company moved from Scarborough to Markham...My boss gave me a nice increase even before I can say, I'm looking for another job. because the time to drive from Whitby to Markham takes longer than Whitby to Scarborough....then when we moved to a bigger building in Concord...I got another increase...

Thats fine, but you are paid primarily for your skills and what you can deliver. If you can deliver from home, what you delivered from an office building, it is infact more profitable to close the office building and work remotely. Collaboration at work is very easy today with Zoom and a number of other collaboration tools.

Of course this depends on the job. My job consists of reviewing/developing powerpoint slides, emailing, presentations and meetings. I dont have to go to a specific building to do this. I can do that from home.

 

[benstt]

I've often said to the youngsters who work for me and all want to work "remotely", "well if your job can be done entirely from home, why am I paying you a hundred grand a year when I can just hire some guy in Nicaragua for 4 bucks an hour?"

If you're not doing that already, you're not doing your job.

Note that other countries consider Toronto talent to be cheap, so be careful what you wish for.

 

[bestseller87]

Hybrid is the way to go.

 

[explorerzip]

If public or private workers can get work done and most importantly meet their targets then it makes no difference where to me where they work. If nothing else, remote work should allow businesses and governments to reduce office space costs. It also adds some business resiliency as there isn't a single office where you can have power or other disruptions. The vast majority of office work is done over e-mail, messaging, etc. so being face to face does not add much value. There are always exceptions though and it depends on the specific job role. Some client facing or creative role still need some human interaction.

Let's put this another way. Would you prefer to stand in line for hours at a government office to get things done or do it online? If you can do those tasks online, then the gov't employees should also be able to work online.

 

[explorerzip]

WFH is the future. If all you need for your work is a computer, internet connection and a desk, then you can do it from home. It has several benefits:

- No commuting - saving time and money.
- Better work life balance which makes for happier and more productive employees.
- Flexibility to work - there is no pressure to stop working at 5PM. Rather you can start whenever you want and stop whenever you want.
- Better physical health - where you can break work to go to the gym etc.,
- Not having to meet assholes at work - Yes. Minimal contact with people especially the assholes at work, helps mental health.
- Heck it saves companies money on leasing buildings and what not. Also think about the reduction in environmental impact for the climate conscious because of a reduction in commuting, and reduction in consumption of power by office buildings.

I have worked from home the last 7 years and I can tell you this is the best way of working. I concentrate better, I am happier, I can play music when I work, watch TV when I work, heck be on TERB and work at the same time. And NOT ONCE has my productivity suffered. The only time I travel is when I travel abroad to engage my teams.

This needs to be normalized and more and more people should opt for WFH.

Exactly. I've been WFH for years now. When we opened up, I did come into the office to change the routine a bit. During the pandemic, I was spending lots of extra hours since there was nothing else to do and I didn't have to run for a train. I could finish up any tasks today so that I could end my day a bit earlier the next day. I still do that though as I prefer to wrap things up neatly before the next day.

 

[richaceg]

So you pay them 100K for them to come to office. Not for the work that they do. Am I understanding you correctly?

Salaries and wages aren't based on skills alone. It also based on location, degree of difficulty and how much $$$ you can bring to the company. When my company moved from Scarborough to Markham...My boss gave me a nice increase even before I can say, I'm looking for another job. because the time to drive from Whitby to Markham takes longer than Whitby to Scarborough....then when we moved to a bigger building in Concord...I got another increase...

Thats fine, but you are paid primarily for your skills and what you can deliver. If you can deliver from home, what you delivered from an office building, it is infact more profitable to close the office building and work remotely. Collaboration at work is very easy today with Zoom and a number of other collaboration tools.

Of course this depends on the job. My job consists of reviewing/developing powerpoint slides, emailing, presentations and meetings. I dont have to go to a specific building to do this. I can do that from home.

Like I said. If you bring in the $$$...i don't think the boss would mind letting you work at home. I have to do structure assessments so I have to be on sight...maybe we can say...."not all jobs are created equal".

 

[hard dick tony]

Hybrid done right is amazing. The reason a lot of my friends want fully remote is because their employers don't do Hybrid well or at all. The company I work for moved this year to a new office. They polled everyone to choose a location that was best for the staff (as best they could) and spoke to those who would have a longer drive then before to help work things out. The new office is beautiful, modern and most of all - 1/3 the size of the old place.

The new space has tons of meeting rooms with huge TVs, HD cameras and sound. Something new was 2 TVs in every board room. One for screenshare, one for the remote staff/vendors joined in with cameras on. Desks are hotel style - 2 monitors, a dock, keyboard and mouse with proper all day chairs. They didn't go 100% hotel style desks, about 20% of the desks are private space desks you can jump into for calls or whatever. At first they had a 'booking' setup for those private desks like the boardrooms but soon they trusted us to use them wisely and only need the booking calendars for the boardrooms.

Each department is required in office 2 or 3 days a week. I got lucky in that my department got approved for Monday-Tuesday. We all stack up meetings and planning sessions while in the office. I often never sit at a hotel desk rather move from boardroom to boardroom all day.

Wednesday to Friday is work from home. There is no punch clock of 9 to 5 bullshit. I typically start around 7:30am and go until noon, start again around 2:30pm and go until 6. Since I'm not fighting traffic (fuck the QEW and 401) I don't care working until 6 - I normally be driving until then if I went to the office. My 2-3 hour lunch on WFH days are amazing. Any appointments I need to get done I book then. Meet for lunch with a friend for 2hours and zero impact on my work that day. I can squeeze in a 45 minute SP visit as well if someone I want to see is only work during the day.

Hybrid, done right, is the best of both worlds. Was all the new office furniture and equipment expensive? Fuck yeah, I saw some of the eye watering costs for it. The savings however per month on the lease for the way smaller space will pay for all of it in less then 18 months and our CFO figured out how to lease almost all of the new stuff as well. Money so much better spent.

Now if only we could get upper management at most or all companies to be such forward thinking I bet a lot more people would be happy and not be looking to jump ship or demand working full time from remote. That is just my 2 cents.

 

[Mr.lover]

Ok great thoughts from both sides.
Why I started this thread?
As @Geee said, boss doesn't care as long as my shit gets done. Take a nap, do laundry and still finish. What that means is you are not 100% utilized.
The benefits are there but mostly for the employees, for the company the risks are bad employees, I have seen the downturn in productivity with my team.
Let's keep it real most people will "goof off" WFH, pets, laundry, chores will take precedence over work. It's understandable but that's not what you are paid to do.

I am not saying WFM is a bad thing, but it's subject to abuse. There are people with 2 or 3 jobs because they WFM. Or people paid the same but 1 live in the city and the other live in a low tax, low cost state.

If it becomes the norm then moving to Costa Rica to live and earning a USD salary would be great.

 

[krealtarron]

Like I said. If you bring in the $$$...i don't think the boss would mind letting you work at home. I have to do structure assessments so I have to be on sight...maybe we can say...."not all jobs are created equal".

Of course, you cannot be a doctor and work from home. That is why I prefaced my statement in my earlier post with:

"If all you need for your work is a computer, internet connection and a desk, then you can do it from home"

and

"Of course this depends on the job. My job consists of reviewing/developing powerpoint slides, emailing, presentations and meetings. I dont have to go to a specific building to do this. I can do that from home."

 

[SoftHands813]

I've been working from home since March 2020 and haven't gone back. I dedicate the same amount of time each day as I did when I was going into the office. Now instead of showering, shaving, getting dressed, making / packing lunch, driving, and walking in from the parking lot (it's a fair hike), I'm doing productive work. Ditto at the end of the day. I'm always in touch with my manager, so they know what I'm doing, and they know (and can see) that the work is getting done.

Agreed there needs to be adequate supervision in place and concrete deliverables, so a manager can be certain their employees are indeed getting it done.

There will always be a need for in-person service, and so that's where the challenge comes in satisfying both needs. It's doable.

 

[Geee]

Salaries and wages aren't based on skills alone. It also based on location, degree of difficulty and how much $$$ you can bring to the company. When my company moved from Scarborough to Markham...My boss gave me a nice increase even before I can say, I'm looking for another job. because the time to drive from Whitby to Markham takes longer than Whitby to Scarborough....then when we moved to a bigger building in Concord...I got another increase...

Like I said. If you bring in the $$$...i don't think the boss would mind letting you work at home. I have to do structure assessments so I have to be on sight...maybe we can say...."not all jobs are created equal".

No, location has absolutely fuck all to do with Salaries and wages for most companies, at most it may impact whether they hire you at all.

Your boss gave you a raise when they moved office because they are a decent employer, most companies would move to an inconvenient location and give 0 fucks about you , I know I've experienced it several times at other companies including when I worked for Telus when they moved from downtown Montreal to St. Bumfuck nowhere 2 hours away, when they knew for a fact 80% of their workforce were commuting through the subway system. Hell most companies frequently lose employees and foist the work onto other people without changing their salaries so you're wrong on degree of difficulty and the how much $$$ you can bring to the company parts too.

And of fucking course not all jobs are the same and can have WFH applied fully. If your job has a physical component WFH may not apply or may not apply fully. Like I said I'm the IT guy... technically I'm the entire (sadly underpaid) IT department. I do Support, I do Code, I do Servers, I do equipment. So I do have to go in occasionally for maintenance and emergencies but my Bosses were smart enough to notice that ever since Covid forced us to go mostly WFH everything about my work performance has improved because not being stuck on a rigid office schedule is a good thing for my neurodivergent ass.

 

[hard dick tony]

Ok great thoughts from both sides.
Why I started this thread?
As @Geee said, boss doesn't care as long as my shit gets done. Take a nap, do laundry and still finish. What that means is you are not 100% utilized.
The benefits are there but mostly for the employees, for the company the risks are bad employees, I have seen the downturn in productivity with my team.
Let's keep it real most people will "goof off" WFH, pets, laundry, chores will take precedence over work. It's understandable but that's not what you are paid to do.

I am not saying WFM is a bad thing, but it's subject to abuse. There are people with 2 or 3 jobs because they WFM. Or people paid the same but 1 live in the city and the other live in a low tax, low cost state.

If it becomes the norm then moving to Costa Rica to live and earning a USD salary would be great.

Bolded above is the root of the problem. Productivity for your team is down. Having everyone in the office may, or may not solve that.

Bad employees can goof off all day in the office. It's a little easier to catch perhaps, but mostly easier to yell at them.

Our department productivity has never been higher. Our management recognizes when the current team pulls together and reaches all the goals set out through a year without hiring as many new staff as budgeted for should turn into extra $ on our xmas bonuses. They won't however let us overwork ourselves and do their best to help us avoid burn out. A tricky balance to maintain and I see again I'm lucky to have some pretty amazing bosses.

Good luck in finding ways to get your team to be more productive.